"Toasti" worked me like a farm animal...

Scott Lee said:
tommy84...If you consider that a beginner drill, you must be a world class player yourself. As an instructor, I can easily say that at least 3/4 of all poolplayers would not be able to complete that drill, even once, without a significant amount of practice...AND an accurate, repeatable stroke (nothing of which was mentioned in the review of this class...to assume that all 8 participants had a quality stroke already, without some sort of video analysis is unlikely), and without hitting at least one of the OB's, as they're laid out in the OP.

I agree with the OP that even a player of Toasti's stature cannot manage working effectively with a group of 20...even for two days. We try to keep our student/teacher ratios to 3-1 or less, so that all students feel like they get enough one-on-one attention. If we had 8 students, we would likely have at least 3 instructors.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott knows of what he speaks on both counts. :thumbup:

I kept checking in with Shooters Billiards as the event drew near to see how many attendees there were going to be. I set in my mind that if it went over 10 (they were trying to get 20), I wasn't going to participate.

As it was, with 8 guys, it kept Thorsten extremely busy. He is a talented player who definitely understands all aspects of the various games and he proved that he can impart his knowledge to others with relative ease. With all of that said, and as I mentioned in a previous post how his training materials were so well prepared and meticulous, I believe we were at max capacity for everyone to feel they received a reasonable amount of individual attention. And as Scott pointed out, yes I agree, an extra one or two instructors would have been a plus.

As for the drill that I posted, again Scott, you are correct. While it may look relatively easy, it is very challenging. I never got past two successful runs through the five paths. We worked on that drill for approx 45 minutes.

Every one in the class found it very challenging. This is definitely not a low skill, beginner drill.

Best,
Brian kc
 
Bowlliards

I have seen posts about playing bowling on the pool table and so this might be the same. It was a very enjoyable ghost drill that can mark progress very easily.

Rack 10 balls (see three choices below).

Break 'em.

Take ball in hand.

You have two innings to clear the table.

If you clear the table in one inning, mark yourself a strike.

If you clear the table in two innings, mark yourself a spare.

If you do not make either a strike or a spare, add the number of balls that you did make in each inning of that rack and score them like you would an open frame in bowling.

All scoring is just like you were bowling. A 300 is a perfect game - not so easy! :p

You have three formats:

You can either play to hit any balls you want in any order (easiest), or you can rack 5 solids/5 stripes and choose one group, pocket them, then pocket the other (harder), or you can rack a 10 ball rack and play in rotation 1 ball through 10 ball (even harder).

Very easy to track your progress as you will have an average score after ten racks in each format. Very easy to see and track improvement.

A terrific practice game! :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc
 
I'll share one last drill...

In this drill you have all 15 balls lined up across the head string.

Take the cue ball and place it frozen to the cushion, starting on one end and work your way across all 15 balls. You are to reposition the cue ball for each shot making it as straight as possible, always with whitey frozen to the cushion. Half into one corner, half into the other.

You can easily keep track of how well you do, and your progress, as you practice this drill. My best was 13 of 15. And that happened only once out of the approx 5 times I did this drill. My low was 10 of 15.

An excellent drill for frozen cue balls.

Best,
Brian kc

CueTable Help

 
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Hey Brian,

the "Big Position Drill" with balls 1 to 6 is from PAT1 so it's made for beginners to slightly advanced players. That frozen rail drill is from PAT3 which is made for beginners of our 3rd highest league up to world class level, so it IS hard

The guy in the yellow shirt is indeed Ralph Eckert, but as far as I know he never trained Thorsten. Ralph was an instructor in Germany for a long time, he's now one of only two or three EPBF instructors and the co-founder of the PAT system.

Thorsten was trained by Michael Wahl when he was living in his hometown of Fulda. Wahl is responsible for the junior squad of the State of Hesse (Fulda is part of Hesse)
Wahl also trains some other players like Dominic Jentsch (before he moved to Dachau) and women junior champ Jasmin Michel

The guy in the red shirt is Andreas Huber who is Germany's national head coach. He trains all German players representing their country in championships as well as the premier league team of Dachau where he also runs a pool academy. Huber also designed a shaft which is available through Eurowest Cues. It's a solid maple shaft with a very special taper. Plays great. Huber hold an engineering diploma as well...

Thorsten lives still in JAX and just recently passed his 5 year approval time for the Greencard so he's able to travel more again now
 
Scott Lee said:
tommy84...If you consider that a beginner drill, you must be a world class player yourself. As an instructor, I can easily say that at least 3/4 of all poolplayers would not be able to complete that drill, even once, without a significant amount of practice...AND an accurate, repeatable stroke (nothing of which was mentioned in the review of this class...to assume that all 8 participants had a quality stroke already, without some sort of video analysis is unlikely), and without hitting at least one of the OB's, as they're laid out in the OP.[/url]
Click to expand...
As you can see in my signature I'm far away from being a good player, but at first sight it looked like just another PAT-style drill. Most of it should work using tangent lines. I try that drill this evening, I'm just about to go to my club.

But I still think it is rather easy, a similar thrill is proposed on the PAT-1 DVD which is intented for beginner players
Object ball hangs in a corner pocket and you create paths by placing balls from the siderail to the headspot and down to the headrail.
You have to pocket the ball hanging over the corner and travel with the whitey through each of the gaps.
Sorry, I don't get the virtual table to work, I hope you understand what I mean.
EPBF instructors Eckert and Sandman put that drill on the PAT-1 DVD which IS intended for beginners.

May be it's just we Germans play more drills instead of learning by gambling:D
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Hi Chris;

First, let me thank you for asking me to share a drill with you. The reason I'm thanking you is you have put the pressure on me to figure out the cue table feature and what's really funny about this is that Thorsten came back from NYC Sunday via a ride from his friend Wei, the man who invented the pool table layout software we use on pool.biz. :thumbup: I say "we" because I think between asking him on Sunday about how to use that feature (he gave me a quick tutorial on his laptop) and me now playing around with it, I think I'm somewhat in.

A drill I especially liked, I hope is showing up below. Moving the cue ball around the table is one of the better parts of my game. This drill begins with an object ball frozen to the middle of the head cushion and from the cue ball position shown you must make the 5 ball in the corner 5 times in a row while sending whitey through each of the target paths highlited in blue without hitting a ball. :eek:

As you can imagine, it takes a while to do this successfully once. You must keep at it until you can be successful 5 times. It takes a mix of english and hitting either more object ball (shortens tangent) or more cushion (lengthens tangent) on following shots, and the reverse for the draw shots. It is a tough drill but if you can manage it, it will make your control more precise and you more confident.

Best,
Brian kc

CueTable Help

Click to expand...


This drill is from PAT test
 
tommy84...Maybe, but there are no beginner poolplayers that will be able to complete that drill, without touching any of the OB's...German or not. Beginners do not have the sense of english usage (nor the refined stroke that it takes), especially with the OB frozen on the rail (not to mention the steep angle of the cut), to pocket the OB and run the CB down each of those lines...at will. If they can complete that drill, they are certainly not beginners.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

tommy84 said:
As you can see in my signature I'm far away from being a good player, but at first sight it looked like just another PAT-style drill. Most of it should work using tangent lines. I try that drill this evening, I'm just about to go to my club.

But I still think it is rather easy, a similar thrill is proposed on the PAT-1 DVD which is intented for beginner players
Object ball hangs in a corner pocket and you create paths by placing balls from the siderail to the headspot and down to the headrail.
You have to pocket the ball hanging over the corner and travel with the whitey through each of the gaps.
Sorry, I don't get the virtual table to work, I hope you understand what I mean.
EPBF instructors Eckert and Sandman put that drill on the PAT-1 DVD which IS intended for beginners.

May be it's just we Germans play more drills instead of learning by gambling:D
Click to expand...
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Yes, I know.

Many of the drills we did were from PAT format.

Good stuff!

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

I have all these books ... from PAT start to PAT3 and also all in pdf format :)
I made in excell complete automated calculation for all PAT-s. Just put result of each inning and u have points :)

there is PAT START :
 

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1 of 5

Thorsten gave us 5 shots to practice that he said a player "must make" when a match depends on it.

Here is number 1:

Best,
Brian kc

CueTable Help

 
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Scott Lee said:
tommy84...Maybe, but there are no beginner poolplayers that will be able to complete that drill, without touching any of the OB's...German or not. Beginners do not have the sense of english usage (nor the refined stroke that it takes), especially with the OB frozen on the rail (not to mention the steep angle of the cut), to pocket the OB and run the CB down each of those lines...at will. If they can complete that drill, they are certainly not beginners.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, I don't want to take anything away from you, but by saying "beginner" I meant people who are able to accomplish an average score in PAT-1, so people who already play regulary and compete in leagues as well - what you'd call a C-player or however your system works.

Of course nobody who picks up a cue for the first time will accomplish that drill and it's obviously the wrong drill to start with

Yesterday I did that drill and made the outer paths along the rail and the center on the first try. The other two did take some adjusting but where accomplished within a dozen shots.
I'm used to play according to the tangent or stop shot line, so the center and outer ones are easy to judge, the others just take some adjusting and again I'm a poor player.
I'm pleased with my 2 consecutive break and runs in 8-ball, but the rest needs some improvement, especially 14.1 but as I don't play it in competition I don't really focus on it regarding patterns etc.
 
tommy84...So, just to clarify things, your own admission that it took you a dozen tries to get the CB to follow the lines in the drill, and your own assignment of you being a "poor player" just refinforces what I said. PAT drills are not able to be accomplished by "beginner" players (what you described as C- or D players), without a significant amount of practice, and without an accurate & repeatable stroke process. All I stated, from the first post, was that the drill posted was NOT an easy drill, even for accomplished players, let alone beginners (I don't define beginners as having never picked up a cue before either...I call them "never-ever's"). BTW, I am familiar with the PAT drills (all levels), and how they are scored. Some are certainly easier than others. While this one may be listed as PAT 1 difficulty, I still assert that it takes a very controlled stroke to be able to complete the drill as it's listed and shown...on demand, under pressure, in one try (which is always the goal for any kind of drill). If we got a dozen tries, we'd all be Earl or Efren! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

tommy84 said:
Scott, I don't want to take anything away from you, but by saying "beginner" I meant people who are able to accomplish an average score in PAT-1, so people who already play regulary and compete in leagues as well - what you'd call a C-player or however your system works.

Of course nobody who picks up a cue for the first time will accomplish that drill and it's obviously the wrong drill to start with

Yesterday I did that drill and made the outer paths along the rail and the center on the first try. The other two did take some adjusting but where accomplished within a dozen shots.
I'm used to play according to the tangent or stop shot line, so the center and outer ones are easy to judge, the others just take some adjusting and again I'm a poor player.
I'm pleased with my 2 consecutive break and runs in 8-ball, but the rest needs some improvement, especially 14.1 but as I don't play it in competition I don't really focus on it regarding patterns etc.
Click to expand...
 
Brian...This is a great shot to practice, and as Thorsten said, it MUST be made under pressure, in one try. It's also necessary to learn to shoot this shot striking all areas of the CB (top, bottom, stun, inside and outside spin).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Kickin' Chicken said:
Thorsten gave us 5 shots to practice that he said a player "must make" when a match depends on it.

Here is number 1:

Best,
Brian kc

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
 
3 of 5

Here is the "must make" shot, number 3 of 5.

How straight can you shoot? And can you lose all sidespin? ;)

Best,
Brian kc

CueTable Help

 
I want to thank you guys for the information - I was not aware of the PAT books or test. I just ordered a book from mike@billiardcoach.com and I'm going to give it a run.

I want to get more consistent in difficult situations - so I guess drills are what's needed to get there.

Chris
 
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