Good post. This is the obvious I thought. Do people really think pool on TV is a money maker for ESPN?
ESPN and Billiards
- Thread starter Rocky247
- Start date
Good post. This is the obvious I thought. Do people really think pool on TV is a money maker for ESPN?
What would they list? Most tournaments are little more then amateur produced events with limited fields and limited money. Unless they began listing local bar tournaments there is not a lot to say about pool. One media guy I spoke to called pool one of the most disorganized sports he even tried to write about. One funny comment he made was, "Just how many world champions are there"? Seems every pro player bills themselves as world champions of some sort. Pool over the years has degraded itself and is not takes seriously. It's just a game played in bars by drunks in most peoples perceptions. It is interesting to watch and the hustling and gambling aspect gets peoples attention but it is still an orphan looking through a fogged window at the banquet inside it can't share. Even with a new pair of pants and a clean shirt it still gets stopped at the door.
I said it before and I'll say it again, the reason no one gives a rats ass about pool is because it isn't pleasant to become acquainted with, not relative to other similar sports.
Bowling, you take your family or girlfriend bowling and you sit in your own well defined space, (read comfort zone) usually even "U" shaped seating with your own semi-private entry way to your lane. You laugh, you yell, you throw a strike or two after a short time. You have fun.
Golf, you get out in the open air, plenty of your own space, you laugh, you yell, you joke, you breath in the air and look at the beauty around you. Or, you play some miniature golf and really get to laugh and have fun.
Pool, you enter a relatively quiet, unfamiliar space, small enough to notice people are looking at you. You fumble for a stick on the wall and stand beside your table mere feet away from the next table and folks you don't know.
You stand unsure of where you think you should be standing. You hold your cue, butt end on the floor, two hands grasping the shaft in front of your chin, almost like a shield waiting for your next turn at looking foolish.
Unlike bowling or golf, you can't even execute a shot. You can't hit the CB, let alone the OB. You or your girlfriend / family member become outwardly uncomfortable. You can't wait to get away from the table and back to your little corner, hopefully a little less noticed from other patrons. On your next turn, you almost try to miss to get back to your safety zone. It's a very uncomfortable feeling for those who have never attempted to play before.
I owned a room and saw this on a daily basis. The game is far to hard to quickly enjoy, and the environment, is not as open and friendly as other choices, so the newbie is more preoccupied with being uncomfortable than with enjoying.
Now, I'm not confusing poolrooms with nightclub/bars with pool tables. People go to those places to drink and socialize. They may never even pick up a cue in those places.
I'm talking about poolrooms and the game of pool. After trying it once, your better half will not find it as attractive as bowling or miniature golf. It's not a great environment for a family fun time either. Sorry to say but from an outsiders standpoint they do see it as a seedy uncomfortable place to be. Been that way forever, and will be forever more. We're a small group of enthusiasts.
I hate to say it, (because leagues keep rooms going and I hated them) but if it wasn't for beer leagues where the bangers feel some comfort in numbers and find the added social / drinking value in playing leagues, pool rooms would be ghost towns.
Bowling, you take your family or girlfriend bowling and you sit in your own well defined space, (read comfort zone) usually even "U" shaped seating with your own semi-private entry way to your lane. You laugh, you yell, you throw a strike or two after a short time. You have fun.
Golf, you get out in the open air, plenty of your own space, you laugh, you yell, you joke, you breath in the air and look at the beauty around you. Or, you play some miniature golf and really get to laugh and have fun.
Pool, you enter a relatively quiet, unfamiliar space, small enough to notice people are looking at you. You fumble for a stick on the wall and stand beside your table mere feet away from the next table and folks you don't know.
You stand unsure of where you think you should be standing. You hold your cue, butt end on the floor, two hands grasping the shaft in front of your chin, almost like a shield waiting for your next turn at looking foolish.
Unlike bowling or golf, you can't even execute a shot. You can't hit the CB, let alone the OB. You or your girlfriend / family member become outwardly uncomfortable. You can't wait to get away from the table and back to your little corner, hopefully a little less noticed from other patrons. On your next turn, you almost try to miss to get back to your safety zone. It's a very uncomfortable feeling for those who have never attempted to play before.
I owned a room and saw this on a daily basis. The game is far to hard to quickly enjoy, and the environment, is not as open and friendly as other choices, so the newbie is more preoccupied with being uncomfortable than with enjoying.
Now, I'm not confusing poolrooms with nightclub/bars with pool tables. People go to those places to drink and socialize. They may never even pick up a cue in those places.
I'm talking about poolrooms and the game of pool. After trying it once, your better half will not find it as attractive as bowling or miniature golf. It's not a great environment for a family fun time either. Sorry to say but from an outsiders standpoint they do see it as a seedy uncomfortable place to be. Been that way forever, and will be forever more. We're a small group of enthusiasts.
I hate to say it, (because leagues keep rooms going and I hated them) but if it wasn't for beer leagues where the bangers feel some comfort in numbers and find the added social / drinking value in playing leagues, pool rooms would be ghost towns.
zymmer4
Mr.G
skin
Hell Yes...Why do we think that Janette Lee is such a star??DUH!!!! Promotion =viewers= $$$= sex..it drives commerical anything..If the girls showed some ,well you know what..the viewing audience would pay more attention..In like manner..if the guys dressed like Mike Segal, Jim Rempke and those "guys of yore"..maybe the female and (god help is) some males in the audience would affect the ratings numbers..Promotion is the deal.
Hell Yes...Why do we think that Janette Lee is such a star??DUH!!!! Promotion =viewers= $$$= sex..it drives commerical anything..If the girls showed some ,well you know what..the viewing audience would pay more attention..In like manner..if the guys dressed like Mike Segal, Jim Rempke and those "guys of yore"..maybe the female and (god help is) some males in the audience would affect the ratings numbers..Promotion is the deal.
I'm sure Don King has left a bad taste in many about boxing. TV has no moral compass when it comes to what they televise. One thing only drives their business: ratings = revenue.
Image
Hey if you want to help change that go to www.qitupp.com and check it out. This is going to be huge. Read the Virtual Tour Defined & the FAQ to get a quick overview. Contact info is there is you want to find out how to participate.
Hey if you want to help change that go to www.qitupp.com and check it out. This is going to be huge. Read the Virtual Tour Defined & the FAQ to get a quick overview. Contact info is there is you want to find out how to participate.
your equation is a little off i think.....
try this one on for size....
it should be.... sex + promotion = viewers + $$$
try this one on for size....
it should be.... sex + promotion = viewers + $$$
Pool can't be compared to poker or golf. Jam is right when the IPT tried to bring pool into the mainstream. When the tour was in Orlando there might have been 300 people there to watch it. All those world champions and no one showed up.
Poker is on its way out of T.V. land except for the world series of Poker. I believe it has had its run. A good promoter needs to take footage of the Mosconi cup to ESPN and sponsors or any big station and show the crowd reaction. In pool rooms that are bars or night clubs maybe make the pockets larger so even the novice can sink balls and get them interested in the game. Have no safeties make it that the break doesn't matter. If you pocket balls on the break they come out and then you start shooting. This way women could also play and there would be no advantage. There are a lot of ways to make the game popular. One would be letting the players shark, even have it scripted for T.V.. Maybe start with a reality show. What pool needs is some major companies like Coke and Lexus and Rolexs to back them. Then they could take it mainstream.
Poker is on its way out of T.V. land except for the world series of Poker. I believe it has had its run. A good promoter needs to take footage of the Mosconi cup to ESPN and sponsors or any big station and show the crowd reaction. In pool rooms that are bars or night clubs maybe make the pockets larger so even the novice can sink balls and get them interested in the game. Have no safeties make it that the break doesn't matter. If you pocket balls on the break they come out and then you start shooting. This way women could also play and there would be no advantage. There are a lot of ways to make the game popular. One would be letting the players shark, even have it scripted for T.V.. Maybe start with a reality show. What pool needs is some major companies like Coke and Lexus and Rolexs to back them. Then they could take it mainstream.
That is
That is because that the poeple up there in that ESPN business all have a one track mine.I like watching billiards on TV and always did and wish fore some more,but these poeple only think of one thing(table tennis).I like to have a game of billiards instead of such a wimpy game of table tennis.If i owned a sports channel I have more billiards on it.
That is because that the poeple up there in that ESPN business all have a one track mine.I like watching billiards on TV and always did and wish fore some more,but these poeple only think of one thing(table tennis).I like to have a game of billiards instead of such a wimpy game of table tennis.If i owned a sports channel I have more billiards on it.
I have to bite my tongue here, something that is rare for me. Let me just say that the powers that be in pool need to budget some money for a "real" PR person or firm to promote our sport. Preferably by promoting existing events, there are a lot of them you know. What I mean by this is a PR firm/person who peppers the media with press releases announcing upcoming events, and who the stars are. Daily releases with results each day to local media. And of course final result releases to major sports publications and media outlets.
To the best of my knowledge nothing like this has ever been done, at least not since the 1920's or 30's. Will this happen? Doubtful! Once again the powers that be in pool barely offer any support for professional events as it is. Why would we think they would do anything more, even if it meant selling more cues, more tables, more everything! This is a collective cause that would benefit all the members of the pool community. Kind of what Mark Griffin was talking abut earlier. My experience of the billiard industry is that, almost to a man, everyone and every company is only looking at how they can get their little piece of a very small pie. They continue to fight over this small pie.
If they had any vision, they would figure out how to make the pie bigger! HELLO!!! Don't feel bad, they don't listen to me either. By the way, ESPN is not the only television network out there. The World Poker Tour started the current boom on the Travel Channel of all things. And at risk of beating a dead horse, professional pool on TV does garner ratings, except it is overseas. If this last Mosconi Cup was shown on ANY network in this country in it's entirety, it would also gain an audience. I'd like to own the television rights to all these shows and be able to dole them out in regular two hour segments for several weeks (on any network, it doesn't have to be ESPN). People would begin to find out how exciting pool can be. And we would begin to gain recognition for our players and the sport, at the same time building an audience.
We are caught in a "Catch 22" and no one is doing anything about it. Shame on the American pool industry. It is not the sole responsibility of Brunswick or Aramith or Simoniz to carry the entire load. GET THESE SHOWS on the biggest television market in the world (the USA), with a regular schedule of full length matches, and just watch what happens next. You will ALL sell more cues and more tables and more everything! If all the members of the pool industry pitched in together (and I mean right now in this bad economy), they could turn the tide for our sport. But they still have their collective heads in dreamland thinking about the day (2040 or ?) when pool is a recognized Olympic sport. Hey guess what, if you made pool a major sport on TV, the Olympic Committee would come looking for you. And not the other way around.
Why do I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here. Only you guys are listening. The people who control the purse strings could give a damn about anything I have to say. I'll still put it out there though in the hope that they finally get the message. Maybe after I'm gone this will all sink in.
To the best of my knowledge nothing like this has ever been done, at least not since the 1920's or 30's. Will this happen? Doubtful! Once again the powers that be in pool barely offer any support for professional events as it is. Why would we think they would do anything more, even if it meant selling more cues, more tables, more everything! This is a collective cause that would benefit all the members of the pool community. Kind of what Mark Griffin was talking abut earlier. My experience of the billiard industry is that, almost to a man, everyone and every company is only looking at how they can get their little piece of a very small pie. They continue to fight over this small pie.
If they had any vision, they would figure out how to make the pie bigger! HELLO!!! Don't feel bad, they don't listen to me either. By the way, ESPN is not the only television network out there. The World Poker Tour started the current boom on the Travel Channel of all things. And at risk of beating a dead horse, professional pool on TV does garner ratings, except it is overseas. If this last Mosconi Cup was shown on ANY network in this country in it's entirety, it would also gain an audience. I'd like to own the television rights to all these shows and be able to dole them out in regular two hour segments for several weeks (on any network, it doesn't have to be ESPN). People would begin to find out how exciting pool can be. And we would begin to gain recognition for our players and the sport, at the same time building an audience.
We are caught in a "Catch 22" and no one is doing anything about it. Shame on the American pool industry. It is not the sole responsibility of Brunswick or Aramith or Simoniz to carry the entire load. GET THESE SHOWS on the biggest television market in the world (the USA), with a regular schedule of full length matches, and just watch what happens next. You will ALL sell more cues and more tables and more everything! If all the members of the pool industry pitched in together (and I mean right now in this bad economy), they could turn the tide for our sport. But they still have their collective heads in dreamland thinking about the day (2040 or ?) when pool is a recognized Olympic sport. Hey guess what, if you made pool a major sport on TV, the Olympic Committee would come looking for you. And not the other way around.
Why do I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here. Only you guys are listening. The people who control the purse strings could give a damn about anything I have to say. I'll still put it out there though in the hope that they finally get the message. Maybe after I'm gone this will all sink in.
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You notice boxing isn't on TV any longer, besides PPV or the pay-channels HBO or Showtime. Never on mainstream television. Or even basic cable. MMA is all over the place, though.
Jay, you pretty much hit it on the head. Kind of what i was trying to say. The pool community needs something like a union where dues go in and then goes to a PR firm who will make the sport world wide known the way we here know it.
Jay, you have some good ideas & there are lots of us players that would be there to enjoy the Tournaments while participating as a player or spectator.
BUT there are lots & lots of pool players that go to the Pool Room & watch everything but Pool on TV. Why do they watch that crap, because that's whats being televised.
I see this as insanity on the part of the entrepreneur who owns the Pool Room. If I had a Pool Room, every TV in the joint would have one of these videos being shown:
A big Pool Tournament, whether live or from archive
DCC Ring Game's
World Class 14.1
World Class 3 Cushion Billiards
Videos about cue making
Videos on how how to buy Billiard Equipment
Instructional Videos
Celebrity Pro-Ams
a private Room for "REAL TIME" High Stakes matches (membership or paid attendance)
Documentaries about famous players
and so on & so on...
Everything in the joint would be about "The World of Billiards", nothing else.
AND,,, I'd be asking for tournament support from the folks that sell Cigarettes, Cigars, Fritos, Coke, Dr Pepper, Bud, Juicy Fruit, candy & any other items sold..
These are just some ideas
BUT there are lots & lots of pool players that go to the Pool Room & watch everything but Pool on TV. Why do they watch that crap, because that's whats being televised.
I see this as insanity on the part of the entrepreneur who owns the Pool Room. If I had a Pool Room, every TV in the joint would have one of these videos being shown:
A big Pool Tournament, whether live or from archive
DCC Ring Game's
World Class 14.1
World Class 3 Cushion Billiards
Videos about cue making
Videos on how how to buy Billiard Equipment
Instructional Videos
Celebrity Pro-Ams
a private Room for "REAL TIME" High Stakes matches (membership or paid attendance)
Documentaries about famous players
and so on & so on...
Everything in the joint would be about "The World of Billiards", nothing else.
AND,,, I'd be asking for tournament support from the folks that sell Cigarettes, Cigars, Fritos, Coke, Dr Pepper, Bud, Juicy Fruit, candy & any other items sold..
These are just some ideas
I dont know know and I don't think anyone else really knows what is a sport. When I turn on the TV and I see cheer leading, Spelling Bees, Hot dog eating, along with poker and etc on ESPN I don't think it is all about sports.
The same goes for the Sports page in the news papers. They will report on fishing, hunting, cheer leading, poker and theatrics (WWF). Figure skating and ice dancing results are even listed. How is fishing a sport? All you are doing is sitting there waiting for a fish to hit your hook. Hunting is not much more than sitting by a bait pile waiting for some hungry animal that is about to have it's last supper as you shoot it.
They will also give coverage on bowling and golf. How are those two games and different than pool? Golf is hitting a ball with a stick to make it go into a hole. Bowling is rolling a ball to strike 10 objects arranged in a triangle. Wow!! Could be describing a game of 10 ball.
The big difference in all of the rest is the money involved. Fishing tournaments are big business. The payoffs are enormous because of the sponsors. Same with hunting. Look at all of the equipment that is sold for each. Look at the ads that are in the paper every week for hunting, fishing and Golf.
When I was the grand poohba for a fraternal organization I was contacted by the local weeky paper about a special feature section that they were doing on local organizations and if I would be willing be included by being available for a interview, photos and placing a ad. I said yes to the first 2 but told them that we couldn't do any advertising unless it was thru and approve by the State Office. That ended the whole interest. When the section came out it was no surprise that every organization that was feature also placed a ad. The larger the ad the bigger the article about them.
The same goes for the Sports page in the news papers. They will report on fishing, hunting, cheer leading, poker and theatrics (WWF). Figure skating and ice dancing results are even listed. How is fishing a sport? All you are doing is sitting there waiting for a fish to hit your hook. Hunting is not much more than sitting by a bait pile waiting for some hungry animal that is about to have it's last supper as you shoot it.
They will also give coverage on bowling and golf. How are those two games and different than pool? Golf is hitting a ball with a stick to make it go into a hole. Bowling is rolling a ball to strike 10 objects arranged in a triangle. Wow!! Could be describing a game of 10 ball.
The big difference in all of the rest is the money involved. Fishing tournaments are big business. The payoffs are enormous because of the sponsors. Same with hunting. Look at all of the equipment that is sold for each. Look at the ads that are in the paper every week for hunting, fishing and Golf.
When I was the grand poohba for a fraternal organization I was contacted by the local weeky paper about a special feature section that they were doing on local organizations and if I would be willing be included by being available for a interview, photos and placing a ad. I said yes to the first 2 but told them that we couldn't do any advertising unless it was thru and approve by the State Office. That ended the whole interest. When the section came out it was no surprise that every organization that was feature also placed a ad. The larger the ad the bigger the article about them.
So here is there reply and it was QUICK!
Thank you for contacting us.
We value feedback and suggestions from our fans. Your suggestion regarding adding a Billiards tab to the ESPN.com website is very much appreciated and will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
For live assistance with this or any other issue, please call Customer Care at 1-888-549-3776 (ESPN) between 8:00 a.m. and 1:00 a.m. EST.
Regards,
Eric
ESPN.com Customer Care
--------------- Original Message ---------------
Why is it you don't have a billiards/pool coverage tab on your website?
Thank you for contacting us.
We value feedback and suggestions from our fans. Your suggestion regarding adding a Billiards tab to the ESPN.com website is very much appreciated and will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
For live assistance with this or any other issue, please call Customer Care at 1-888-549-3776 (ESPN) between 8:00 a.m. and 1:00 a.m. EST.
Regards,
Eric
ESPN.com Customer Care
--------------- Original Message ---------------
Why is it you don't have a billiards/pool coverage tab on your website?
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So here is the word on Billiards and the Olympics!
Billiards as an Olympic Sport
Billiards as an Olympic sport is something that billiard enthusiasts have long wanted to see, and many are searching for it via the internet this year. Well, we hate to disappoint, but it isn't part of the 2008 Olympic Games, but we're a lot closer than we were before. In fact, Cue Sports are already included in the Asian Games, SEA Games, Mediterranean Games.
Ever since in the 1950's many attempts have been made in order for Billiards to possibly achieve the Olympic Recognition, but all of them to no avail. Two major obstacles were standing in the way; Billiards did not comply with the definition of Sports that was valid at this point in time, and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) demanded for a possible recognition one organization in charge of all Billiards Sports. You can imagine how difficult this task would be, given that Billiards, Carom, Pool and Snooker did share the origin of Billiards, but have developed separate from each other ever since in the middle of the 19th century.
Today's reality, however, is that for Billiards at the Olympic level, the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) now represent all games under the cue sports umbrella that are being pushed for inclusion in the Olympics. In 1998, billiards was recognized by the IOC as an "international sports federation". Experts say, and agree, that this is the first step to getting billiards in the Olympic games. This organization is now campaigning for inclusion in either the 2012 Olympics, having been unsuccessful with getting cue sports into the 2008 Olympic Games.
In July 1996 the IOC decided to grant the WCBS a provisional recognition for two years. That was a first step. Then, another glimmer of hope came in 1998 when in a press conference, the IOC President stated that "the IOC is anxious to include Billiards Sports in the Olympic Games as quickly as possible, but the WCBS will have to decide which discipline it would like to include."
The World Confederation of Billiards Sports actually has a page on the IOC website, as a registered International Sports Federation. The WCBS submitted an application for billiards participation in the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games in May of 2001, but were rejected in August 2002. The reason the IOC provided to the WCBS in 2002 to justify their denial of billiards into the 2008 Olympic games was that there had been a previous decision not to take on any additional sports for the Beijing Olympics.
At the previous summer games, the IOC advertised a new regulation, however, which says that the IOC will scrutinize all current and aspiring sports for inclusion using the same strict guidelines. This may just be the chance Billiards needs to get into the Olympics. Unfortunately, the IOC has a 28-sport, 300 event, 10,500 athlete limit.
6diggs
digg
Billiards as an Olympic Sport
Billiards as an Olympic sport is something that billiard enthusiasts have long wanted to see, and many are searching for it via the internet this year. Well, we hate to disappoint, but it isn't part of the 2008 Olympic Games, but we're a lot closer than we were before. In fact, Cue Sports are already included in the Asian Games, SEA Games, Mediterranean Games.
Ever since in the 1950's many attempts have been made in order for Billiards to possibly achieve the Olympic Recognition, but all of them to no avail. Two major obstacles were standing in the way; Billiards did not comply with the definition of Sports that was valid at this point in time, and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) demanded for a possible recognition one organization in charge of all Billiards Sports. You can imagine how difficult this task would be, given that Billiards, Carom, Pool and Snooker did share the origin of Billiards, but have developed separate from each other ever since in the middle of the 19th century.
Today's reality, however, is that for Billiards at the Olympic level, the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) now represent all games under the cue sports umbrella that are being pushed for inclusion in the Olympics. In 1998, billiards was recognized by the IOC as an "international sports federation". Experts say, and agree, that this is the first step to getting billiards in the Olympic games. This organization is now campaigning for inclusion in either the 2012 Olympics, having been unsuccessful with getting cue sports into the 2008 Olympic Games.
In July 1996 the IOC decided to grant the WCBS a provisional recognition for two years. That was a first step. Then, another glimmer of hope came in 1998 when in a press conference, the IOC President stated that "the IOC is anxious to include Billiards Sports in the Olympic Games as quickly as possible, but the WCBS will have to decide which discipline it would like to include."
The World Confederation of Billiards Sports actually has a page on the IOC website, as a registered International Sports Federation. The WCBS submitted an application for billiards participation in the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games in May of 2001, but were rejected in August 2002. The reason the IOC provided to the WCBS in 2002 to justify their denial of billiards into the 2008 Olympic games was that there had been a previous decision not to take on any additional sports for the Beijing Olympics.
At the previous summer games, the IOC advertised a new regulation, however, which says that the IOC will scrutinize all current and aspiring sports for inclusion using the same strict guidelines. This may just be the chance Billiards needs to get into the Olympics. Unfortunately, the IOC has a 28-sport, 300 event, 10,500 athlete limit.
6diggs
digg
Here was the reply I got.....:smile:
__________________________________________
Thank you for contacting us.
We value feedback and suggestions from our fans. Your suggestion regarding adding a Bocce Ball tab to the ESPN.com website is very much appreciated and will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
For live assistance with this or any other issue, please call Customer Care at 1-888-549-3776 (ESPN) between 8:00 a.m. and 1:00 a.m. EST.
Regards,
Eric
ESPN.com Customer Care
__________________________________________
Thank you for contacting us.
We value feedback and suggestions from our fans. Your suggestion regarding adding a Bocce Ball tab to the ESPN.com website is very much appreciated and will be forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
For live assistance with this or any other issue, please call Customer Care at 1-888-549-3776 (ESPN) between 8:00 a.m. and 1:00 a.m. EST.
Regards,
Eric
ESPN.com Customer Care