9 ball tournament on Bar Boxes!!

RunoutJJ

Professional Banger
Silver Member
Im trying to draw up a format for a 9 ball tournament on 7 foot diamond tables. It would be a two day event with a 64 player field and heres what i would like to see happen:


Race to 11 on winners / Race to 9 on one-lose side
Finals one race to 13
Entry fee $50 ($5 greens fee)
100% paid back to the players
$1000 added on a full field
It would be an Open event
No 9's would count on the break
Winner breaks
no 3 foul rule
rack your own


The reason for the longer races is because of the pocket size... Their the size of garbage cans!!!! So i figured a race to 11/9 would even out the luck factor and the high amount of B&R's

I just wanted to see what everybody thought about this type of format. Forgot to add that they have 16 tables but was thinking about saving two as practice tables to keep the players in stroke..

Thoughts :grin:
 
Last edited:
Just out of curiosity, which room are you considering having this in? Will it be in the D.C. area?

Oh, and yes I do like the format, 7 ft diamonds can be easy to play on so a longer race will reduce some of the luck factor. Maybe I should ask to shorten the races then? lol

<--- Needs all the luck he can get.
 
TVMike steams a 9 ball tournament every Wed from the BLue Diamond. It uses two 7th Diamonds. Dont let those "buckets" fool you. Watch it and you will see top players such as Ronnie Wiseman, Mark Ritter, and Craig McPartlin missing shots because of the table.

They also use alternate break and rack your own. When racking your own the 9 ball never counts on the break.

A longer race also helps the better player as anything can happen in a short one.
 
Are you going to prorate the added money with less than a full field? Nothing will tick off the players more than traveling to it to find out there are 63 players instead of the required 64, so there is no added money. I've seen it happen before.

Might also want to state what rule format you will be using.



Good questions..


Yeah forgot to mention that it would be Texas Express rules (except the 3 foul rule) and the 9 wouldnt count on the break.

I wanna talk to the owners and see what they can do for this type of tournament. Again this is all an idea of what i want to do. I also thought about maybe making it a $10 greens fee so than the establishment would only have to kick in around 400 bucks or so making it an easier sell to them...

I mean there is nothing ever going on there on Saturday and Sunday days (except football which would be moved to the bar and not the playing area. So i dont see why the owners wouldnt do it. Maybe i could talk them into added money on 48 players instead. Im sure i could get a good turn out for this type of event.

Another note i persoanlly would be in charge of the cleaning of the tables and balls in order to have the best playing conditions for all the players :thumbup:
 
Format

You will draw better with Alternate breaks. At least a player knows he will get to the table for each match.

I think your races are too long, and you will too when you are halfway done with the tournament and times are running over. I would go with race to 9 on winner's side, race to 7 on loser's side. And, if you must do this, a final race to 11 (I say that because it is not fair to the winner of the winner's side to have 1 final match, they should have to be beat 2 times to lose).

You will need some help! Who will referee the matches? Are you going to have a Calcutta? Who will sell advertising for the tournament? Do you know about how long each match should take? for scheduling purposes.

And something I don't care for, play 1 or 2 matches the first day, and if you are on the loser's side the 2nd day having to play 5-7 matches or more.
 
I think your races are too long for a two day event. have you done the math? how many games can possibly be played and what's the average time of each game.
 
I think your races are too long for a two day event. have you done the math? how many games can possibly be played and what's the average time of each game.



I think the races could be shorter but i play at this hall and ive played a race to 11 in jut under 45 minutes!! Im telling you that if two top players match up it wont last that long. Plus with 16 tables availabe the brackets would move pretty quickly...

May make it a race to 9/7 with alternate breaks.. Finals one race to 11


To answer the questions from Neil:

Yeah i think their are plenty of enough players that would come out to this type of event. I just have to be careful not to schedule it at the same time as somebody else's tournament..

The owner isnt gonna lose money at all here. Saturday and MONDAY nights are their club nights and their up in the 10's of thousands of dollars for those nights. The place has a huge dance floor and lighting system off to the right of where the tables are. They dont start club night until around 9:30 or 10pm where i would supend play till Sunday. I dont think them pour a thousand dollars into the players is gonna hurt them. Plus i would encourage the players to eat there and buy drinks to help support the place for hosting the tournament to begin with. They have pizzas and a whole bunch of apps and the best traditional el salvadorian food!!!

Their pretty nice people and im sure that 64 or more people will be able to make up over a thousand dollars after 2 days. Like i said before there is NOTHIING going on during the weekend days so any type of business would be great for them!!! :cool:
 
Last edited:
Revised format:


Race to 9 on winners / Race to 7 on one-lose side
Finals one race to 11

Entry fee $50 ($5 greens fee)
100% paid back to the players
$1000 added on a full field
It would be an Open event
Texas Express Rules
No 9's would count on the break
No 3 foul rule
Alternate Breaks
Rack your own
 
..I dont think them pour a thousand dollars into the players is gonna hurt them...

It aggravates me when people just assume stuff like this. Ask before you assume $1,000 isn't going to hurt them. They have to make sure the bottom line isn't touched and they can foot the bill. There are extra expenses to keep things working for more customers. For instance, more paychecks will be required. How much money will extra waitresses cost and/or how much will they require for extra work time? It also costs more for extra folks to flush the toilets and wash their hands and for the cooks to keep the stove up and running and possibly pay for extra kitchen help, too. If they had to pay for 5 extra folks at $10 per hour, that's $50 per hour. Twenty hours would eat up that $1,000 and they would still have to pay for the extra food supplies, extra utilities used... Would the extra income from food orders be enough to counter the bill? I know we only eat at Subway, when we travel. That means no money for the pool hall we are at, other than soda pop and tips. We can't afford pool hall prices when we're on the road and I'm a heart patient... I know what I'm getting with Subway's meals at a good price.

Ask before you assume. Sometimes, just footing the bill for a mere $50 is a tough thing to do. Just because a business LOOKS successful, doesn't mean they are. Think about this... If they look unsuccessful, people won't go there, right? So, no matter how bad things get, they have no option, if they want to survive. THEY HAVE TO LOOK SUCCESSFUL, no matter how bad it hurts.

I had 2 renters who thought we were made of money, just because we owned a few rental properties. They treated our property poorly and didn't care if they were on time with the rent until they finally realized we were scraping by, just like they were. If they didn't pay the rent, we couldn't pay our bills. Just knowing that we were on the same income level made a huge difference in the respect we got from them. However, they had to live on our property and if they continued like they had been doing, they weren't going to be there much longer. So, I did have the upper hand in the end, but I didn't have to resort to any of that, after they knew the circumstances.

When a favorite pool hall closes, people are always shocked, wondering how that could have happened when they seemed so much like they were rolling in the dough. The people who care most about the pool hall will do the math and ask the questions to make sure they are helping, not hurting.

Don't assume. ASK. Please. It could make the difference in the success or failure of your favorite hangout. If you ask and what you want seems like a really good idea to the owner, he/she is going to help you come up with a much better plan than you even imagined.

For what it's worth, I think dropping the number of games was a good idea. We have folks who can finish off a game in about 3 minutes and folks who will make one game last 15 minutes. Each player plays the game differently and if you run out of time, then how are you going to fix it? In fact, having to fix it while it's going on would make you look bad. So, I would suggest figuring out the longest time a game should take and maybe working out your numbers according to that. It would be much better to end each phase early than to be costing the pool hall more money to pay for the extra time and losing players who have to be somewhere else.

Good luck and let us know how your event goes.
 
It aggravates me when people just assume stuff like this. Ask before you assume $1,000 isn't going to hurt them. They have to make sure the bottom line isn't touched and they can foot the bill. There are extra expenses to keep things working for more customers. For instance, more paychecks will be required. How much money will extra waitresses cost and/or how much will they require for extra work time? It also costs more for extra folks to flush the toilets and wash their hands and for the cooks to keep the stove up and running and possibly pay for extra kitchen help, too. If they had to pay for 5 extra folks at $10 per hour, that's $50 per hour. Twenty hours would eat up that $1,000 and they would still have to pay for the extra food supplies, extra utilities used... Would the extra income from food orders be enough to counter the bill? I know we only eat at Subway, when we travel. That means no money for the pool hall we are at, other than soda pop and tips. We can't afford pool hall prices when we're on the road and I'm a heart patient... I know what I'm getting with Subway's meals at a good price.

Ask before you assume. Sometimes, just footing the bill for a mere $50 is a tough thing to do. Just because a business LOOKS successful, doesn't mean they are. Think about this... If they look unsuccessful, people won't go there, right? So, no matter how bad things get, they have no option, if they want to survive. THEY HAVE TO LOOK SUCCESSFUL, no matter how bad it hurts.

I had 2 renters who thought we were made of money, just because we owned a few rental properties. They treated our property poorly and didn't care if they were on time with the rent until they finally realized we were scraping by, just like they were. If they didn't pay the rent, we couldn't pay our bills. Just knowing that we were on the same income level made a huge difference in the respect we got from them. However, they had to live on our property and if they continued like they had been doing, they weren't going to be there much longer. So, I did have the upper hand in the end, but I didn't have to resort to any of that, after they knew the circumstances.

When a favorite pool hall closes, people are always shocked, wondering how that could have happened when they seemed so much like they were rolling in the dough. The people who care most about the pool hall will do the math and ask the questions to make sure they are helping, not hurting.

Don't assume. ASK. Please. It could make the difference in the success or failure of your favorite hangout. If you ask and what you want seems like a really good idea to the owner, he/she is going to help you come up with a much better plan than you even imagined.

For what it's worth, I think dropping the number of games was a good idea. We have folks who can finish off a game in about 3 minutes and folks who will make one game last 15 minutes. Each player plays the game differently and if you run out of time, then how are you going to fix it? In fact, having to fix it while it's going on would make you look bad. So, I would suggest figuring out the longest time a game should take and maybe working out your numbers according to that. It would be much better to end each phase early than to be costing the pool hall more money to pay for the extra time and losing players who have to be somewhere else.

Good luck and let us know how your event goes.



I hate to say it but im sticking by what i said about the owners throwing the tournament a 1000..

As far as i know they would only need two servers and one bartender and both of the positions are at $3 per hour so thats not a big deal... The one cook woudl proabbly be the most costly at 10 per hour but he's always there anyway.. The other cooks and dishwasher dont come in till the afternoon but im sure the one guy could manage it by himself..

Water (for the restrooms) around here is pretty cheap and if that was a concern the 500+ people they have on Saturday and Monday nights would be more costly...

I look at it like this.. If each player spends at least 20 dollars (which they probably will) then the thousand added woudl be taken care off plus expenses for the establishment... Overall you are right to ask where they stand on this but i just have a feeling that a thousand added wouldn't be that big of a deal for them... Plus if it goes really well (which i think it will) they would see more of a profit next time around. IMHO the better of an event you throw the more likely players will return and the more the owners will want to invest in you again..

If it works out it works out.. I see it as an opprotunity for the business. Like i stated before there is nothing going on for them on the weekend afternoons so ANYTHING is better than nothing.. If they lose a little (which they wont) then they probably wont do it again.. But if it goes off and is successful (which i really feel it would be) then everybody wins. I did the the numbers and 1st place is looking around $800-$1000 depending on how deep i want to pay out..
 
Last edited:
Revised format:


Race to 9 on winners / Race to 7 on one-lose side
Finals one race to 11

Entry fee $50 ($5 greens fee)
100% paid back to the players
$1000 added on a full field
It would be an Open event
Texas Express Rules
No 9's would count on the break
No 3 foul rule
Alternate Breaks
Rack your own

I have seen this format before,,, It is the nuts, nothing else to consider. You should have zero problems getting 64 if the 1000 is added,, I will be there and I no of several more.
 
Sounds good Danny Bell!!! Yeah i figured after helping others promote their tournaments aroudn her that they would help me promote my own.. And if you say you like the looks of this then thats gives me a lot more faith in it!!! :grin:

Im sure we could get the guys from Big Daddy's and First Break.. Im gonna talk to the owners 2mrow and see what they think :smile:
 
Last edited:
I hate to say it but im sticking by what i said about the owners throwing the tournament a 1000..

As far as i know they would only need two servers and one bartender and both of the positions are at $3 per hour so thats not a big deal... The one cook woudl proabbly be the most costly at 10 per hour but he's always there anyway.. The other cooks and dishwasher dont come in till the afternoon but im sure the one guy could manage it by himself..

Water (for the restrooms) around here is pretty cheap and if that was a concern the 500+ people they have on Saturday and Monday nights would be more costly...

I look at it like this.. If each player spends at least 20 dollars (which they probably will) then the thousand added woudl be taken care off plus expenses for the establishment... Overall you are right to ask where they stand on this but i just have a feeling that a thousand added wouldn't be that big of a deal for them... Plus if it goes really well (which i think it will) they would see more of a profit next time around. IMHO the better of an event you throw the more likely players will return and the more the owners will want to invest in you again..

If it works out it works out.. I see it as an opprotunity for the business. Like i stated before there is nothing going on for them on the weekend afternoons so ANYTHING is better than nothing.. If they lose a little (which they wont) then they probably wont do it again.. But if it goes off and is successful (which i really feel it would be) then everybody wins. I did the the numbers and 1st place is looking around $800-$1000 depending on how deep i want to pay out..

I hope you don't think I was trying to slam your idea. (If I was, I could have spouted off something stupid in a lot less time and space.) I LIKE your idea. I was just trying to say that I've seen a lot of pool halls go bottom up without anyone expecting it, so please don't take anything for granted. Times are tough right now and a lot of folks I would normally expect to have $1000 just sitting around are looking for $1000 to keep them out of the crapper, but only a select few folks actually know.

Be sure you advertise it well. AZBilliards is one of the best places you can spread the word. I'm sure you already know that, though.

As for the time and stuff, I was just suggesting that you take the time to figure it all out, just to be sure. If you went beyond the alloted time, you would be the one people will be mad at, not the owner of the place. And, getting players to return will not be as easy, then.

Ask the owner / manager for their input. They may have some terrific ideas that might help, or some restrictions you will need to know about. They may also have $2000 they want to sink into your venture, instead of just $1000.

I mostly responded to you because there have been a couple of places I've seen that folks assumed were doing well and they helped shut them down, because they didn't know, instead of helping make things better for them.

As I said before, good luck and let us know how it turns out. Sounds like a fun event.
 
I hope you don't think I was trying to slam your idea. (If I was, I could have spouted off something stupid in a lot less time and space.) I LIKE your idea. I was just trying to say that I've seen a lot of pool halls go bottom up without anyone expecting it, so please don't take anything for granted. Times are tough right now and a lot of folks I would normally expect to have $1000 just sitting around are looking for $1000 to keep them out of the crapper, but only a select few folks actually know.

Be sure you advertise it well. AZBilliards is one of the best places you can spread the word. I'm sure you already know that, though.

As for the time and stuff, I was just suggesting that you take the time to figure it all out, just to be sure. If you went beyond the alloted time, you would be the one people will be mad at, not the owner of the place. And, getting players to return will not be as easy, then.

Ask the owner / manager for their input. They may have some terrific ideas that might help, or some restrictions you will need to know about. They may also have $2000 they want to sink into your venture, instead of just $1000.

I mostly responded to you because there have been a couple of places I've seen that folks assumed were doing well and they helped shut them down, because they didn't know, instead of helping make things better for them.

As I said before, good luck and let us know how it turns out. Sounds like a fun event.


Totallly sorry if you thought i was backed into a corner about what you said.. I should've type that diffrently. Yeah i agreed a 100% on what you said in your first post. Im gonna talk to them tomorrow about it.. Typed out sheets of the numbers and my ideas to help them by pumping money into the event.. The owner is very keen to new ideas to boost business. From what i've gathered so far the only reason people havent done anything like this before is just plain lazyness or they dont have a vision that i do. Or maybe even the contacts that i have made or the past year by going to other peoples events.

Overall pool in the MD/DC/VA is on the rise lately when it comes to tournaments and monthlys so i do have a strong gut feeling on this. And if Danny Bell thinks he's got others that would play in this than maybe ill get a sign up sheet of players (date of event pending) that would be willing to come to this if the date is right for them.

I dont want to over or under sell my first event but i do want to do it right regardless. The whole point of this thread to begin with is to get an idea of what the players (you guys!!) woudl like to see or people such as yourself that think more on a business level.
 
Last edited:
Spoke to a few promoters around town and this is what we came up with.....


64 Players Maxium
Entry fee $45
100% paid back to the players
$500 added guaranteed
Race to 9 on winners / Race to 7 on one-lose side
True Double Elimination
Open event
Texas Express Rules
No 9's would count on the break
No 3 foul rule
Alternate Breaks
Rack your own


With a full field and the added $500 first place will be $1000 and will pay up to 12th place.

If it goes well i would like to hold a fundraiser event adn give back to the community. Baby steps i guess :lol:

I like it :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
Spoke to a few promoters around town and this is what we came up with.....


64 Players Maxium
Entry fee $45
100% paid back to the players
$500 added guaranteed
Race to 9 on winners / Race to 7 on one-lose side
True Double Elimination
Open event
Texas Express Rules
No 9's would count on the break
No 3 foul rule
Alternate Breaks
Rack your own


With a full field and the added $500 first place will be $1000 and will pay up to 12th place.

If it goes well i would like to hold a fundraiser event adn give back to the community. Baby steps i guess :lol:

I like it :thumbup:
So WHERE is this tournament?
 
There's your advertising, RunoutJJ. You better answer that question about WHERE. :thumbup:
 
Im trying to draw up a format for a 9 ball tournament on 7 foot diamond tables. It would be a two day event with a 64 player field and heres what i would like to see happen:


Race to 11 on winners / Race to 9 on one-lose side
Finals one race to 13
Entry fee $50 ($5 greens fee)
100% paid back to the players
$1000 added on a full field
It would be an Open event
No 9's would count on the break
Winner breaks
no 3 foul rule
rack your own


The reason for the longer races is because of the pocket size... Their the size of garbage cans!!!! So i figured a race to 11/9 would even out the luck factor and the high amount of B&R's

I just wanted to see what everybody thought about this type of format. Forgot to add that they have 16 tables but was thinking about saving two as practice tables to keep the players in stroke..

Thoughts :grin:

The $5 green fee is refreshingly cheap.

The longer race will discourage some and encourage others. The $50 entry fee will encourage some and discourage others.

Reducing the luck factor means reducing the number of lower level participants. If you have enough above average players in the region to fill the tournament, go for it. If not, consider introducing the luck factor with shorter races. (The better players still win even in short races) The shorter races keep the wannabees coming back for more.

I like alternate breaks.
I like Nine ball in the two foot corner pockets doesn't count. (RACK YOUR OWN).

When does the 9 spot? And if it spots immediately after the break, what if it is impeding the shot on the one ball? Should the breaker be penalized for that?

What, NO calcutta?

Follow White Diamonds Billiards' in Lafayette, LA, lead on bar box tournaments. Weekends are important for a lot of people.

Make details known EARLY in advance. Get an email database of potential players along with cell numbers and text and email on a regular basis, building excitement for the tournament. Let it be known that "so and so" will be at the tournaments. Wannabees like to get whipped by somebody. :grin-square:
 
Back
Top