Center to where...Pro what..

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PocketPoint said:
Compared to many here, I know little about pool.

The claims have been that CTE causes you to make every shot. So you'll undoubtedly start winning major tournaments, unless another CTE beats you.
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No one has made such a claim. But even if they did so what? Does this mean that the system itself is invalid?

Ghost Ball advocates also claim that using Ghost Ball causes the shooter to be PERFECTLY lined up on every shot.

Which is true IF the person using it manages to see the "Ghost Ball" well enough to get themselves aligned to it withing the make window for the shot.

Why can't you simply allow for exuberance and understand that when people are excited about something they tend to use some hyperbole?

I am sure at some point in your life you have overstated the nature of something just because you were excited about it. Most of us have said things like that's the greatest whatsit ever, or such and such is the best experience in the world.....etc.....

What is so hard to understand about a person who goes to the table and starts making shots that they have never even tried before because they coudn't see where to hit the ball, or shots that they tried and missed badly despite tons of trial and error and adjustment type of practice being excited about their new abilities? Is that something that bothers you when someone says that they feel like they can't miss?

I was in my life fortunate enough to go to train with Greg Louganis' coach Ron O'Brien in Florida one summer. After just a day I was diving better. Why? Not because I was any stronger or fitter or had put in more hours. No, I was better because Ron taught me how to visualize my dives and how to spot them better. If you are a diver you understand that you need to pick spots as reference points so you don't get disoriented and land wrong. You need to know where to come out of those triple twists and backwards somersaults. This is not a "feel" thing. It's a very tangible focused technique that you must use in order to become a high level diver.

Would I have learned this if I had not trained with Ron O' Brien? Maybe. I might have naturally discovered it on my own. I might have found another coach or another diver who could explain it to me. But the point is I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to get it directly from one of the best diving coaches on Earth. My "game" shot up dramatically after that.

Did I then go on to become an Olympic Gold Medalist? No, because at that time I was already "over the hill" so to speak as far as diving competitively went. Plus I was lazy and into pool too much to spend enough time on the rest of my training.

Still I got good enough to dive professionally and was lucky enough to travel the world performing in diving and trampoline shows.

To me it's just sad that people choose to hate rather than be positive.

You have a choice. Wow Eddie that's great that you are showing some improvement, keep us up to date on your progress!!!

OR

Really? cant' miss a ball huh, wanna gamble sucker? See you in the winner's circle at the open.

The same amount of typing goes into either one. Which one is "better" for yourself and everyone around you?
 
Neil said:
You just proved your first statement correct. There is a lot more to playing top pool than just making the balls. Maybe, in time, if you open your mind, you will learn that. There is also a lot more to just making a ball than having a perfect aiming system. Maybe you will in time learn that too.

Basically, with CTE, if a ball is makeable to a hole, you can make it with the system. Providing that you have a straight stroke. No more need to play safe because you aren't familiar with a certain shot, or are scared of a certain shot. I have the same confidence with the "tough" shots that I do with the "easy" shots. That alone makes a huge difference.

At the top level of pool, you will seldom see a player miss a ball. However, 99% of us are not top players, and we do miss. Now we have a very good way to miss a whole lot less. Apparently, by knocking CTE, you must enjoy missing balls. I've seen people like that, they play on coin operated tables so they get their moneys worth.
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Well now you're mistaken. It's not uncommon for top pros to miss 2, 3, or 4 balls in a race to 9. But with CTE, most of the time you will miss zero balls. And you will not need to play safe ever because you won't miss difficult shots.

You will therefore beat any player not using CTE the majority of the time. Spare the occasions where the top pro plays perfectly.

The other factors affecting the outcome will be mitigated because you simply won't miss. Who cares if you play bad shape, who cares if the layout is difficult. Who really cares about anything else other than the fact that you'll be pocketing every ball from any angle.
 
PocketPoint said:
Well now you're mistaken. It's not uncommon for top pros to miss 2, 3, or 4 balls in a race to 9. But with CTE, most of the time you will miss zero balls. And you will not need to play safe ever because you won't miss difficult shots.

You will therefore beat any player not using CTE the majority of the time. Spare the occasions where the top pro plays perfectly.

The other factors affecting the outcome will be mitigated because you simply won't miss. Who cares if you play bad shape, who cares if the layout is difficult. Who really cares about anything else other than the fact that you'll be pocketing every ball from any angle.
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Yep, that's pretty much how it goes. People who have mastered CTE can pocket balls from any position. Sucks to be you and not know this.

Truly, I feel truly sorry for you that you will never get to experience the true joy of making some ridiculous shot just because you had a great aiming system to get you there. I do them all the time now.

Sucks to be you who will never get to experience the joy of seeing the railbirds' eyes pop out when you make some "impossible" cut shot to get the cheese.

Too bad really, but if you'd rather remain an ignorant hater then by all means do so. Because that's definitely the easier way to go in life.
 
JB Cases said:
How can you say that? While I am sure that SOME people are looking for a magic pill I am equally sure that others have put plenty of time in at the table.

I am one of them. I have put plenty of table time in while trying out things I read and watched.

And you know what? Despite that I have learned things from pros like Rafael Martinez, Jimmy Reid, Buddy Hall, Jose Parica and Danny Medina to name a few which I have NEVER EVER seen in a book or video. Why is that?

The things I learned from the pros are things that definitely shortened my learning curve. In fact I'd be pretty confident in saying that some of those things are things I probably NEVER would have learned if I hadn't been shown them.

Did it ever occur to any of you that some of the people who want to try out a new technique might be wanting to do so because they have put in the time, have the straight stroke, have hit a million balls, do the drills, buy every book and tape known to man, and still they miss more balls than they like?

And some people might like to try it out just because they are curious.

Why does ANYONE have a PROBLEM with anyone else's desire and journey to get better?

Who are you people to tell ANYONE what they SHOULD do to get better? None of you are champions, none of you have the right stuff or the formula or you would already be out there winning.

If you're not a professional instructor or a professional player then you have zero right to criticize anyone else for their choices about which paths they want to explore in their quest to become a good player.

Ultimately this is all about people wanting to get better and other people stepping up to help them. Please tell me what is wrong with that?

So what if someone wants to get an "aiming system" and doesn't want to work on their fundamentals???? Why do any of you care? That person will ultimately HAVE TO work on their fundamentals when they inevitably hit the brick wall where an "aiming system" won't get them past.

That doesn't make the aiming system itself any less valuable a tool. So please stop mixing up the aspects of the game. You can have the straightest perfect stroke in the world and if you can't aim then you will be inconsistent. And you can have perfect aim and not be able to execute and you will be inconsistent. BUT you will be making some fantastic shots along the way.

The point is that to be a complete player you have to study all aspects of the game and master them. NO ONE is saying that an aiming system eliminates the need to have good fundamentals. No one has ever said that and no professional instructor would ever say that.

I have not seen one single person who claims that they suck at pool and feel that having an "aiming system" will make them a champion. I can tell you though that having an aiming system can make you FEEL like a champion when you come with the tough shot in the clutch and you KNOW that you lined up right because of the aiming system.

I think it's really unfair to make a statement that all the players who would like to try out CTE and similar systems are only looking for a shortcut to greatness. What they are looking for is something that they can rely on so that they can move on to working on the rest of their game.

At least that's how I see it for myself and I am sure I am not alone.
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First of all...Let me state that I understand a version of CTE and yes, it works. Please don't throw me in the group of people that knock CTE and other aiming systems.

Secondly..Why do any of us care about anything that someone else it doing? Simple we all love pool and for some strange reason we all want to see other people get better becuase we feel thier pain. At least I do.

Finally...I will recant the statement that everyone looking for an aiming system is looking for a majic pill. Not everyone is. But I will stand by my statement that before someone someone tries to learn an aiming system they should learn to send the cueball in a straight direction first and who knows? Maybe they will start making some of the shots they were missing in the first place and they could have been aiming on the right line the whole time!!!
 
mrsmith1976 said:
Maybe they will start making some of the shots they were missing in the first place and they could have been aiming on the right line the whole time!!!
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I will agree with this that no matter what system or not that you use, you need to make sure other things are right like alignment and mechanics, it takes more than just seeing where to hit the ball to make the ball.
 
PocketPoint said:
Well now you're mistaken. It's not uncommon for top pros to miss 2, 3, or 4 balls in a race to 9. But with CTE, most of the time you will miss zero balls. And you will not need to play safe ever because you won't miss difficult shots.

You will therefore beat any player not using CTE the majority of the time. Spare the occasions where the top pro plays perfectly.

The other factors affecting the outcome will be mitigated because you simply won't miss. Who cares if you play bad shape, who cares if the layout is difficult. Who really cares about anything else other than the fact that you'll be pocketing every ball from any angle.
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Providing that you have the ability to also shoot straight every time, which is a whole different thread, and most on here can't do. So, do CTE'rs still miss? Sure they do. But, it's not from faulty aiming, it's due to other reasons, such as not stroking straight 100% of the time.

Does it give an edge over someone with otherwise equal abilities? You bet it does! Can you get away with more playing sloppy position? Yes. Why you would think that these are bad things bewilders me.???

There's hardly a match I play that my opponent doesn't make the comment at least once "Nice shot". And often they tell me I am nuts for even going for that shot, and got lucky that I made it. Well, what they don't know, is that it's not luck. It's just another shot. Now their mental state is down a notch. How strong do you think that is to better players??
 
Neil said:
Providing that you have the ability to also shoot straight every time, which is a whole different thread, and most on here can't do. So, do CTE'rs still miss? Sure they do. But, it's not from faulty aiming, it's due to other reasons, such as not stroking straight 100% of the time.

Does it give an edge over someone with otherwise equal abilities? You bet it does! Can you get away with more playing sloppy position? Yes. Why you would think that these are bad things bewilders me.???

There's hardly a match I play that my opponent doesn't make the comment at least once "Nice shot". And often they tell me I am nuts for even going for that shot, and got lucky that I made it. Well, what they don't know, is that it's not luck. It's just another shot. Now their mental state is down a notch. How strong do you think that is to better players??
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Pro's still miss too and sometimes it might be a simple shot, and its not always because they were trying to do something with whitey but because they were not focused and concentrating. For me the biggest problem is my focus and loss of it at times. :o
 
Let me start by saying I've made it clear on this forum that I use a very similar aiming system. I know it this pivot stuff works, I use it. But...

I got the DVD two days ago, I've watched it over and over again and I must say...


The way the information is presented its really hard to understand. Stan does not go into very good explanation about things. It's almost as if he think you already knew this info before you watched it. Most of the video was "when the balls are like this, do this".

Things I found extremely unclear:

-I understand how to sight the center to edge line & edge of cueball to A, B or C, however he never really explained how to "lock in" on the both at them same time. From the way its explained, its impossible. He must have left something very important out.

-He explains the CTE pivot fine, but the pro-one pivot... I have no idea what he is doing.

These are the two most important things with using this system and they both were poorly explained and impossible to follow. Even already knowing a very similar system, I felt lost as a puppy watching this. I'm not a hater and Im not asking for a refund, but I feel this DVD is going to confuse a lot of people.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
It's a battle I fight every day. I agree.

Dave
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Cameron Smith said:
It is. Learning to be a consistent shotmaker is barely half the battle. It doesn't matter how well you pocket balls if you can't put the cue ball where you want it.
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These two points are correct. Staying focused is a problem I have, too, especially in long runs in 14.1. After about 100 balls, I seem to make some really BONEHEADED mistakes, like throwing my stick at the ball on simple shots. And then I get mad at myself for doing so (losing focus / not respecting the shot, that is).

And Cameron's point about learning to be a consistent shotmaker being only half the battle nails it. You folks on here talk "aiming system this, aiming system that" as if it's the holy grail of pool or any other cue sport. Let me let you in on something: it isn't. It doesn't matter what aiming system you use, as long as it's automatic for you, and you don't have to think about it. What are the REAL gems everyone should look for? Consistency and autonomy. Good fundamentals. Those things will get you a heck of a lot further in the cueing sports than any aiming system by itself. Will an aiming system help you? Possibly. But you won't know unless you try it, work with it, and see if it "clicks" with you.

Back to the "focus maintenance" issue, I wrote an article in the 14.1 forum that I'd like to share here, in the hopes that perhaps even one person will benefit from it:

"Leveraging your subconscious (read: don't let your conscious get in the way!)"
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=216564

I firmly stand behind the notion that many of you are making this much more difficult than it needs to be. You all have pool-playing supercomputers "up there" between the ears, in the form of the subconscious mind. Learn how to use it, and stop over-thinking / end-running your ability.

-Sean
 
mrsmith1976 said:
First of all...Let me state that I understand a version of CTE and yes, it works. Please don't throw me in the group of people that knock CTE and other aiming systems.

Secondly..Why do any of us care about anything that someone else it doing? Simple we all love pool and for some strange reason we all want to see other people get better becuase we feel thier pain. At least I do.

Finally...I will recant the statement that everyone looking for an aiming system is looking for a majic pill. Not everyone is. But I will stand by my statement that before someone someone tries to learn an aiming system they should learn to send the cueball in a straight direction first and who knows? Maybe they will start making some of the shots they were missing in the first place and they could have been aiming on the right line the whole time!!!
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Mike,

Do you honestly think that most of the people on this forum who are willing to to try a CTE style aiming system can't hit the cue ball in a straight line? Or those willing to spend $40 on a DVD jsut about aiming?

I bet extra large and extra crispy that 99% of the active participants on this forum are above average players already. Average would be an APA 4 to use as a frame of reference.

I think it's equally unfair to make the assumption that even a small percentage of the people on this forum can't hit the ball in a straight line.

For that matter everyone can hit the ball in a straight line :-)

I think that what you mean is that people should learn to hit in a straight line to a specific target. Which would be aiming. Because even my wife who wouldn't even be classified an APA 2 makes the cue ball travel in a straight line even as she misses the object ball completely.

I am pretty sure that I am on fairly solid ground when I say that 99.5% of the people in these aiming discussions have done the "hit the ball straight through the spots" drill plenty of times in their lives.
 
cleary said:
Let me start by saying I've made it clear on this forum that I use a very similar aiming system. I know it this pivot stuff works, I use it. But...

I got the DVD two days ago, I've watched it over and over again and I must say...


The way the information is presented its really hard to understand. Stan does not go into very good explanation about things. It's almost as if he think you already knew this info before you watched it. Most of the video was "when the balls are like this, do this".

Things I found extremely unclear:

-I understand how to sight the center to edge line & edge of cueball to A, B or C, however he never really explained how to "lock in" on the both at them same time. From the way its explained, its impossible. He must have left something very important out.

-He explains the CTE pivot fine, but the pro-one pivot... I have no idea what he is doing.

These are the two most important things with using this system and they both were poorly explained and impossible to follow. Even already knowing a very similar system, I felt lost as a puppy watching this. I'm not a hater and Im not asking for a refund, but I feel this DVD is going to confuse a lot of people.
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A tip of the hat to you for the honesty
 
PocketPoint said:
I thought maybe the hardest part is playing position, not pocketing the ball.
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Really? See how successful you are when you get perfect position after missing the shot.

Here is how the game is played, make the shot, get another shot, repeat until all the balls are gone.

If you do it in this order then you won't be breaking much, miss the shot, get perfect position for the next ball that you would have been shooting had you made the previous shot.

Pocketing the ball IS the most important task in POCKET BILLIARDS. It means you get to stay at the table and keep shooting.

This isn't common sense?
 
Mowem down said:
A tip of the hat to you for the honesty
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Is it your implication that the people who said that the information was clear to them and that they are now using the system successfully are lying?

I don't really understand why you would compliment Cleary for his "honesty" if you didn't think that people who have the opposite experience were being dishonest.
 
PocketPoint said:
So because you are now going to pocket 99.9% of your shots, will you now be winning pro tournaments? Even if you get bad shape, you still won't miss.
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Good Question., I can't wait to play again. If I do it will probably have to do with many factors...Am I rested...am I well fueled (energy) ect. As for bad shape..hopefully I have a safety.
I understand your sarcastic tone and if I am wrong then please accept my apology now. But there are many other factors to winning , bad choices could be a big one.
This is about playing better period . I hope that anyone else that reads this will get it.
 
I haven't got my copy yet, but will say this ... im sure if everyone worked together on this in a positive thread, all questions can be figured out with multiple brains working together, for the good of man kind :)

Remember there is only so much stan can put on the disk and im sure he could have chatted about certain points for a couple hours each. Then you would have ended up with a 16 hour disk ...ijs
 
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