Does the joint make that much of a difference?

twal · Mar 16, 2011

I was speaking with someone the other day and they mentioned that different joints will make a cue hit softer or stiffer depending on the type of joint.

That is assuming you have the same shaft, same weight, taper, tip, etc... all the same but the joint was the only difference.

Is this true?

Assuming this is true, is there some sort of chart to go by just like the Mueller index for tips that list super stiff down to solid?

Or it a simple wood to wood contact like a 3/8 x 10 or radial would feel similar as compared to a SS joint like the 5/16 14?

I also see some cue makers have phenolic jackets. Why is that done?

I looked through some of the prior threads and really could not find much on the subject.

If anyone can direct me so I can get more information would be much appreciated.

Thank you

336Robin · Mar 16, 2011

twal said:
I was speaking with someone the other day and they mentioned that different joints will make a cue hit softer or stiffer depending on the type of joint.

That is assuming you have the same shaft, same weight, taper, tip, etc... all the same but the joint was the only difference.

Is this true?

Assuming this is true, is there some sort of chart to go by just like the Mueller index for tips that list super stiff down to solid?

Or it a simple wood to wood contact like a 3/8 x 10 or radial would feel similar as compared to a SS joint like the 5/16 14?

I also see some cue makers have phenolic jackets. Why is that done?

I looked through some of the prior threads and really could not find much on the subject.

If anyone can direct me so I can get more information would be much appreciated.

Thank you

I can tell you this much Ive had metal jointed cues that played extremely soft. Ive had flat faced phenoic jointed cues that play extremely hard. The best Ive ever had was an ivory jointed cue with a flat faced joint. All 13mm shafts of similar weight 4.2 to 4.4oz.

336robin

JoeyInCali · Mar 16, 2011

Can of worms.

9ballrun · Mar 16, 2011

Joint Code Butt Material Shaft Material Type of Hit
A High-Impact Implex Resin High-Impact Implex Resin Soft
B Stainless Steel High-Impact Implex Resin Firm
C Stainless Steel Stainless Steel Hard
D Maple Maple Soft, Hustler Style

that is from viking's website, dont know if it helps but i was just looking at it today myself before reading this.

twal · Mar 16, 2011

Can of worms?

I don’t understand why this is a can of worms.
Does wood to wood jointed cue feel softer than a stainless steel joint?
Is it true or not?

Feel is subjective, and just like how hard or soft a tip is.
But we all can agree when you put a tip like Samsara up against a Sniper tip the Sniper is softer.
Maybe it is not that simple and okay I get that but I thought someone would have some insight on this.

It sounds like this topic is taboo and I should say no more. WTF?

StrokeofLuck · Mar 16, 2011

I think the joint is kind of a synergistic thing along with the rest of the cue so the hit might be different combined with the other characteristics of that particular cue. All things being completely equal on the cue other than the joint, I would say blindfolded one would have a very difficult time noting a difference in hit between a wood to wood and SS joint.

peppersauce · Mar 16, 2011

....................

twal · Mar 16, 2011

Thanks for the Viking info.
It gives me a place to look.

SpiderWebComm · Mar 16, 2011

Joints have everything to do with the cue's hit. Shafts resonate at a certain frequency and butts resonate at a completely different frequency. The joint acts as a coupler to allow the shaft and butt to resonate as one piece of wood.

Therefore, some joints (depending of the make-up and geometry) are more efficient than others. There are unlimited combinations that produce certain feels/hits. All of which are subjective, depending on one's style of play.

I think Lambros's Ultra Joint is the best joint in the galaxy, bar none. But once again-- that's just me.

twal · Mar 16, 2011

So now I am curious, what kind of joint is the “Lambro’s Ultra Joint”?
Cleary it fits your style of play, but how does it feel to you? (not to stiff/not too soft)

ChampionsRepair · Mar 16, 2011

twal said:
It sounds like this topic is taboo and I should say no more. WTF?

Exactly...

The joint style and pin size are just two of the variables that have a direct effect on the "hit" of a cue. The species of wood, quality of wood, moisture content of wood when sealed, tapers, ferrule or lack there of, tip, adhesives used, construction methods, finish, and more all have a cumulative effect on the perceived "hit" of a cue. Then different pin sizes and joint styles have different weights that effect the overall weight and balance of a cue.

In other words your question will never be answered by any one other than you. And your answer would likely be different than mine would be if I was in search of the answer to the same question.

MitchAlsup · Mar 16, 2011

It is generally regarded that::
75% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the tip
20% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the shaft

This does not leave a lot of qualities left to be distributed amongs the but weight, joint, but balance, and the host of other (albeit minor) factors.

Scaramouche · Mar 16, 2011

Just to muddy the waters

One piece of folk lore is that to get a good cue, find a one piece house cue that you like in a pool room, buy it, and have a joint installed.

Never seen anything about this conversion destroying the playing qualities of the cue, or that success is determined by the joint chosen.

peppersauce · Mar 16, 2011

...............

ChampionsRepair · Mar 16, 2011

MitchAlsup said:
It is generally regarded that::
75% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the tip
20% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the shaft

This does not leave a lot of qualities left to be distributed amongs the but weight, joint, but balance, and the host of other (albeit minor) factors.

If you honestly believe this install a joint pin that matches your favorite shaft into a 29" length of 1 3/8" pine closet rod dowel. Your game won't drop it will play almost as good as your cue right??? 95%???

Scaramouche · Mar 16, 2011

And while we're on the subject of joints

High end snooker cues have 3/4 shafts, instead of pool cues' 1/2.
So there is an informed group of players who have precision instruments, and a bunch of Americans who like convenience

malidave · Mar 16, 2011

If you take cues with various joints and tape over them to hide what it is and ask players to hit with it and guess what the joint is most will not know.

DJKeys · Mar 16, 2011

Ask the Cuemaker

JoeyInCali said:
Can of worms.

Let's bring it up in that forum and see what happens!

-dj

Charlie Edwards · Mar 16, 2011

malidave said:
If you take cues with various joints and tape over them to hide what it is and ask players to hit with it and guess what the joint is most will not know.

You are exactly right. Here is an interesting read to prove your point.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/3a4dbd5e53265c42?dmode=source

twal · Mar 16, 2011

Ask the Cuemaker

I started this thread there 2 days ago but got no response.
I guess this something they don't want to touch.

Does the joint make that much of a difference?

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