Does the joint make that much of a difference?

[LAlouie]

The most IMMEDIATE effect of a joint is on how you feel the hit. A metal joint will muffle or dampen the feel of the tip contacting the cueball, while a wooden joint, like on a 3chushion cue will allow the feel of the hit to travel easier to your grip.

Basically, you can assume that a one piece cue, like a house cue, will allow the feel to travel through the cue unhindered, while any different material you put at the joint will have an effect on that feel. That's all you need to know, and you can make common sense assumptions on what happens with different joint material,,,,,whether you have wooden screws(like 3cushion cues), glass epoxy pins(like Joey Gold's cues), your standard metal pins, full metal joints, thin metal sleeves, full ivories, ivory sleeves, you name it.

Anything hard you add to any part of a cue will make the feel harder.

Whether all that has an affect on the action you get on a cue is up for debate, but the transmission of the vibration and resulting feel on your grip from the cueball impact is FACT, and this you can try for yourself on any cue available.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

It is generally regarded that::
75% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the tip
20% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the shaft

This does not leave a lot of qualities left to be distributed amongs the but weight, joint, but balance, and the host of other (albeit minor) factors.

Thought I would argue the stated percentages (and the notion that they are generally accepted) I would agree that the major contributing factors to a cue's hit start at the tip and move toward the butt in, more-or-less, that order of importance. The tip, ferrule, shaft material/density/tone & taper are far more important than the joint itself, but the joint type certainly does play a part in the over-all feel of a cue.

 

[bdcues]

It is generally regarded that::
75% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the tip
20% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the shaft

This does not leave a lot of qualities left to be distributed amongs the but weight, joint, but balance, and the host of other (albeit minor) factors.

I don't know who generally regards this as the true but I would disagree 100%. You can put a good shaft and tip on a POS butt and it will still hit like a POS. While the cue may play some % better than before the shaft and tip can not make up for the lack of quality in the butt, be that from weight, joint, balance or all your other (albeit minor) factors.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com

 

[LAlouie]

I think the joint is kind of a synergistic thing along with the rest of the cue so the hit might be different combined with the other characteristics of that particular cue. All things being completely equal on the cue other than the joint, I would say blindfolded one would have a very difficult time noting a difference in hit between a wood to wood and SS joint.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,No,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[measureman]

I get the best hit off a joint that is tightly rolled. :grin-square:

 

[evanlockhart]

It is generally regarded that::
75% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the tip
20% of the 'hit' qualities of the assembled cue come from the shaft

This does not leave a lot of qualities left to be distributed amongs the but weight, joint, but balance, and the host of other (albeit minor) factors.

Lol and where did you get these, "generally regarded" facts from?

 

[Ratta]

Wonder a bit- the thread opener made a serious question.
If somebody won t be able to give serious answer-why don t just shut up?

 

[Murray Tucker]

On internet forums the joint makes a huge difference. At the pool hall taking down the cash.......not so much.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[sr 9ball]

The joint makes a huge difference! If someone went from an ivory to a stainless joint with the same brand tip on it, and tells u there’s no differents does not have any touch on there game. In my opinion the joint makes a bigger differents in the hit than the tip does.

 

[The Chipsta]

If you take cues with various joints and tape over them to hide what it is and ask players to hit with it and guess what the joint is most will not know.

I got something similar to the story from the link above. The story was of a cuemaker that was starting out and wanted to use the most popular joint in his cues. He talked with several people and got different answers and finally made 6 or 7 cues that were exactly the same except for the joints. He taped them up and brought them to the local pool hall where he had talked with many players about their preferences. Many people were sure they could tell the differences after the first couple of hits with each cue, but they were all wrong for the most part.

Cuemaker realized that there are so many things that affect the hit more than the joint that it really did not matter which one he used. Tip and ferrule selection are far more important than the joint.

 

[BKB]

I got something similar to the story from the link above. ...

"A cue-maker who was just starting out made 6 or 7 cues that were exactly the same..." I kind of doubt that part. But that is just me...

 

[Shaft]

Da Engineer reasons thusly: The purpose of the joint is to snug the shaft joint face as tightly as possible against the butt joint face. The pin is in tension while the wood is in compression. If that is done, all axial forces on the shaft are transfered to the butt joint face, regardless of the pin diameter, thread count, pilot/no pilot, etc.

A metal-to-metal joint might be slightly "stiffer" than a wood-to-wood joint, but even a metal joint faces against wood eventually. You have simply moved the pressure point, but not really changed the reaction to the pressure. Some difference possibly, but also possibly not much.

I am not a super-experienced player and I know many experienced players swear there is a difference. I cannot ignore their testimony. My engineering background puts me in the camp that believes the difference they felt was mostly in the cues themselves, and had little to do with the joint.

JMO. I am open minded to objective, measurable evidence.

 

[bdcues]

I don't have the equipment to measure it except my arm but I believe there is a difference in how the vibration is transferred through the cue with different types of joints. It is a reason the 3CB guys use wooden threads and no SS collars and the reason I like G-10 over SS pins. You may not be able to take a group of cues with all different joints and tell which one has what but given the same cue and using different joints I think you could tell the difference in feel. While this difference may be extremely slight and may make negligible difference in playability of the cue it would still be measurable with testing equipment. As stated above about the new cuemaker that make a number of cues alike, all things being equal nothing is equal and the feel of each cue in the group would tell very little about which joint was which. Differences in each cue because of differences in the pieces of wood used would account for more in the feel of the cues. Changing the joint on one cue and deciding if it played stiffer or softer or whatever is a better place to start. Asking someone to pick up a cue they have never hit with before and then do the same with 7 more and tell what joints they have is.... well, I hope someone provided some good whiskey to pass the time.

 

[softshot]

Sure it can...... if it's the super stinky green stuff I can't shoot for shit.. LOL

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Wonder a bit- the thread opener made a serious question.
If somebody won t be able to give serious answer-why don t just shut up?

A reasonable observation. However, how well did your post just now contribute to answering the OP's questions?

 

[Scaramouche]

Obviously, the place to start the comparison is with a set of precision made idenitcal cues.
The only differences between them would be the joints.
Calling Cuetec.
Just knew they were good for something.

 

[whammo57]

A component of the cue not mentioned here is the bumper. I believe they were an option on early Brunswick cues and sold as a vibration damper.

Shoot some shots with the bumper on and then off.... there seems (to me) that there is a slight difference. I think the hit is an accumulation of the components and structure of a cue.... but that't just me, your personal mileage may very.

Kim