What is the best way to give up weight and still win!

AfghanBilliards said:
I played my wife with the Orange Crush and LOST!!! lmfao. shes no slouch on the table either...but FFS thats a lot of weight. lol.

**For those that don't know "Orange Crush" means she gets the 5 out to win. BUT, they didn't count on the break except the 9. I couldn't make the nine on the break in the back two corners. Any of her balls on the break that I made spotted. And I couldn't foul and make any of her money balls. (she got smart lol).


Carl
Click to expand...

Not sure I get this. I thought the Orange Crush was the 5 ball AND the Breaks - the breaks being the "crush" part of the orange crush.

-----------

As for the general topic of the thread, obviously you need to have some idea of the your opponent's abilities as well as your own.

In rotation games like 9 Ball, giving games on the wire is really conditional on the length of the race.

Giving the breaks may not be a big deal but can seem like a big spot to your opponent. If he is not likely to run out then it really is not a big spot, especially if you are not a run out player either. Let him make the first 5 or 6 balls and after he's done all the heavy lifting you get to the table with only a few balls left to finish off. If you are a run out player then giving up the breaks means more because you will forfeit the chance to win games by B&R. Along these lines, if you are not a run out player but usually make a ball on the break, you may often leave him the with a lay out involving only a few balls left unless you are fairly conservative and know when to duck. Keep in mind that even if your opponent is not a run out player but is skilled in safety play, then giving the breaks is a bigger deal because you are giving control of the table beginning every game to a player who knows how to retain control. This is something to make a note of when analyzing your opponent's speed. Do his runs usually end with a missed shot or does he play a lot of safeties? Does he almost always try to get out even when faced with difficult shots or does he often successfully choose to seek cover? In short, the ideal scenario for giving up the breaks is if neither of you are run out players, but he thinks he is.

Similarly (with or without giving the break), if your opponent rarely runs past the 6 ball, then giving the 7 or 8 will look enticing to him but probably not mean much. If he is fairly adept at short rack winning via caroms or combos, then substitute the last 2 or 3 instead specific ball spots, thus forcing him to run balls to get out. Note: the last 2 or 3 includes the 9 ball.

On specific ball spots, always stipulate that the spot ball must be racked in the row behind the 1 ball or stipulate it does not count on the break. And even if you stipulate it must be called it is important to keep this ball from being racked on the wing.

This one you probably know but since I don't think it was actually mentioned, I'll say it. As a general rule for ball spots, giving the 7 is more weight than giving 8; giving the 6 is more than the 7; etc. This is simply because for any given skill level of your opponent he is less likely to run the number of balls required to get to the money ball.

Given some knowledge of your opponents speed, the idea is to make it look good but keep the weight just out of the reach of his abilities and within the reach of your abilities to overcome it.

Hope some of this helps.:grin:
 
Last edited:
Lock N Load said:
I do not like to give games on the wire, for no reason at all. I do not consider that weight. If I play better than you do, and we race to 7 games. And I give you 3 games on the wire it is just a matter of time before I run you down. Because I play better than you, and that is the reason for the weight in the first place! That is not getting weight. That is giving up your back side to a match that you will lose!! That method does not even up the playing skills between you and your opponent...

The break makes a big difference as well. You might make the 9 on the break, or make the ball that I am giving you. You might not make a ball and hook me. You may have the 9 ball sitting in a pocket, with the one right behind it, combo time! When you give up balls they can not make the weight balls on the break and it count. Spot the weight ball back on the table, and it is their shot. Or give them the 7 and the last 2 balls and they can't make the other pay balls on the break! Make the 9 on the break and they win.

Again this is not about what I would do! But what you would! Thanks for your input and response, Lockup!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
Click to expand...

Lock, thats alot of good advice to go by, I say just never give up more weight than you can carry, it's best to know your opponents true speed, and know exactly your own!


David Harcrow
 
Glad to see you're OK, Cat!

catpool9 said:
Lock, thats alot of good advice to go by, I say just never give up more weight than you can carry, it's best to know your opponents true speed, and know exactly your own!


David Harcrow
Click to expand...

Hello Cat,
Glad to get your input. Thanks.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Have you been over to Chicago lately?

JolietJames said:
When giving weight in 9 ball I often offer up one called ball. Always called! I recently gave someone the called 6 because he's not likely to run to the 6 off the break. Giving any single called ball is fairly easy to outrun if you're the better player. Also, when you get up, you can give them one ball earlier to keep them playing. Outrunning the called 7, to the 6, to the 5, and even to the 4, is really not that much of a difference if you can keep the CB out of the pocket.
Click to expand...

Joliet, how is it going up there? I have not been playing up there for a while now. I need to get up that way when the weather gets better. Up to the windy city. Take care.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
On specific ball spots, always stipulate that the spot ball must be racked in the row behind the 1 ball or stipulate it does not count on the break. And even if you stipulate it must be called it is important to keep this ball from being racked on the wing.

This one you probably know but since I don't think it was actually mentioned, I'll say it. As a general rule for ball spots, giving the 7 is more weight than giving 8; giving the 6 is more than the 7; etc. This is simply because for any given skill level of your opponent he is less likely to run the number of balls required to get to the money ball.

Given some knowledge of your opponents speed, the idea is to make it look good but keep the weight just out of the reach of his abilities and within the reach of your abilities to overcome it.

Hope some of this helps.:grin:[/QUOTE]

Years ago in 9 ball tournaments, we used a floating spot system that worked pretty well. It was based on the concepts addressed in this post. We played the first game straight up. Whoever loses, gets the 8 in the next match. If that player loses again, for the third game, instead of the 8, that player gets the 7. The spot keeps going down by a ball for each game the trailing player is behind. In this example, if the trailing player wins the third game (taking the match to 2-1), the spot goes back to the 8.

One lower ball may not seem like much additional weight. But when you play someone who has the 5, basically, you need to make full rack runs to stay ahead. The trailing player is only a few balls from a game ball.

For this system, the spot is placed behind the 1 in the rack. The spot ball on a break gets brought up for the trailing player (that person cannot use a spot ball to win off the break). Anytime the leading player sinks the spot ball, it stays down, so the trailing player loses that opportunity for a quicker win. We didn't worry about giving up the breaks, but that could be part of the weight as well, if you wish.

In this system, generally, the better player wins. It keeps the weaker player in the game. For the stronger player, the game is more interesting because the challenge increases as the difference gets greater. In races to 7, there are a lot of games that end up 7-4, 7-5, or 7-6.

The only problem with this system is for people who like arguing over the spot more than they like playing the game.

Best,
Greg
 
Hello Greg, you covered a lot of good areas!

Sealegs50 said:
On specific ball spots, always stipulate that the spot ball must be racked in the row behind the 1 ball or stipulate it does not count on the break. And even if you stipulate it must be called it is important to keep this ball from being racked on the wing.

This one you probably know but since I don't think it was actually mentioned, I'll say it. As a general rule for ball spots, giving the 7 is more weight than giving 8; giving the 6 is more than the 7; etc. This is simply because for any given skill level of your opponent he is less likely to run the number of balls required to get to the money ball.

Given some knowledge of your opponents speed, the idea is to make it look good but keep the weight just out of the reach of his abilities and within the reach of your abilities to overcome it.

Hope some of this helps.:grin:
Click to expand...

Years ago in 9 ball tournaments, we used a floating spot system that worked pretty well. It was based on the concepts addressed in this post. We played the first game straight up. Whoever loses, gets the 8 in the next match. If that player loses again, for the third game, instead of the 8, that player gets the 7. The spot keeps going down by a ball for each game the trailing player is behind. In this example, if the trailing player wins the third game (taking the match to 2-1), the spot goes back to the 8.

One lower ball may not seem like much additional weight. But when you play someone who has the 5, basically, you need to make full rack runs to stay ahead. The trailing player is only a few balls from a game ball.

For this system, the spot is placed behind the 1 in the rack. The spot ball on a break gets brought up for the trailing player (that person cannot use a spot ball to win off the break). Anytime the leading player sinks the spot ball, it stays down, so the trailing player loses that opportunity for a quicker win. We didn't worry about giving up the breaks, but that could be part of the weight as well, if you wish.

In this system, generally, the better player wins. It keeps the weaker player in the game. For the stronger player, the game is more interesting because the challenge increases as the difference gets greater. In races to 7, there are a lot of games that end up 7-4, 7-5, or 7-6.

The only problem with this system is for people who like arguing over the spot more than they like playing the game.

Best,
Greg[/QUOTE]

I appreciate your good input and response. You told it like it T. I. S! Thanks.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Rule 1
be sure you can win even

rule 2
if you don't know it won't help you to ask

rule 3

its the best way to win,poor players who need weight usually have money

Assumed or even ,more important than rule 1

Be sure they have money and a history of staying with the game when they are losing

ie...play nits and you can not win anything
 
Lock N Load said:
These are great points, Carl. Never any wire weight! Only breaks and ball weight! Your input is what I asked for. No matter how it sounds... You would never win in a bad game. I appreciate your response very much.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
Click to expand...

That's funny you say that because I believe the exact opposite. Not from opinion but from like 40 years of giving weight. Giving weight to a weaker player is often called "Lamb Killing". When you give games on the wire the guy can;t get lucky. That is not to say he may not win if you give up too much but he will still have to earn it. Also when you start him with the games already on the wire, as you chip away at his lead you can just see him collapse. Once you catch up he give up. As far as he is concerned the match is over. The thing you have to remember when giving weight. The weight does not make him any better of a player or a smarter player. He is the same guy who needed the weight in the first place. It is always easier giving weight then playing an equal player. The weak player who needs weight is just that, a weak player who needs weight both mentally and physically. They can almost always be counted on to not even play their speed, what ever that may be, under pressure.
 
Last edited:
Great, Macguy! I like what you say all the way...

macguy said:
That's funny you say that because I believe the exact opposite. Not from opinion but from like 40 years of giving weight. Giving weight to a weaker player is often called "Lamb Killing". When you give games on the wire the guy can;t get lucky. That is not to say he may not win if you give up too much but he will still have to earn it. Also when you start him with the games already on the wire, as you chip away at his lead you can just see him collapse. Once you catch up he give up. As far as he is concerned the match is over. The thing you have to remember when giving weight. The weight does not make him any better of a player or a smarter player. He is the same guy who needed the weight in the first place. It is always easier giving weight then playing an equal player. The weak player who needs weight is just that, a weak player who needs weight both mentally and physically. They can almost always be counted on to not even play their speed, what ever that may be, under pressure.
Click to expand...

All your points are clear and make sense on every angle you can look at it from. I appreciate your input and response.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Your thread title made me LOL, if you get a response from wincardona PM me ;), I'd find his response enlightening.
 
Hi LnL
No, I haven't been up to Chicago for pool in years. I just started playing somewhat serious pool again back in November after taking four of the last five years off. I haven't seen much of a reason to get back up there until I am back on my game. I'm about there now though so I'll be heading up there soon. Maybe I'll head up there looking for some action after ACS state tourney this week.
Where do you play now?
 
Hello, JJ.

JolietJames said:
Hi LnL
No, I haven't been up to Chicago for pool in years. I just started playing somewhat serious pool again back in November after taking four of the last five years off. I haven't seen much of a reason to get back up there until I am back on my game. I'm about there now though so I'll be heading up there soon. Maybe I'll head up there looking for some action after ACS state tourney this week.
Where do you play now?
Click to expand...

Very good to hear from you again. I trust that you and your family are doing well!
Glad you are getting your game back in shape. Nothing like playing good pool. Enjoy yourself when you get back to the Windy City! Hope you get plenty of action!

I play in Buffalo's Billiards, in Metairie, Louisiana. Right next to New Orleans, Louisiana. A real nice pool hall with nice people working there. And Great new Diamond tables, well not all are new. But, the new tables are only about a month old. Buffalo's Billiards, is located on Airline Drive in Metairie, Louisiana. Keep up the good work and stay in touch....
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Wow!

catpool9 said:
Lock, thats alot of good advice to go by, I say just never give up more weight than you can carry, it's best to know your opponents true speed, and know exactly your own!


David Harcrow
Click to expand...

I can't believe I got 3 pages into this thread before someone finally mentioned this. The best way to give up weight and still win is to know exactly what you're up against. Unless you know your opponent's true speed, this question is impossible to answer.
 
Hello Winston846.

Winston846 said:
I can't believe I got 3 pages into this thread before someone finally mentioned this. The best way to give up weight and still win is to know exactly what you're up against. Unless you know your opponent's true speed, this question is impossible to answer.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this at all! When I am on the road, how can I tell the real speed of my opponents? When I am asked to play, I do not make phone calls on the guy like they do to me. They know how I want them to think I play because I adjust my level of play to their level of playing. In Atlanta, GA. A guy asked me to play, I said OK. When I returned from getting my Cue, he showed me the screen on his Iphone! We did not play. I try not to ever show my best speed! Save some for later!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top