New cue Al Baytista 8 pointer

Point taken, Have a great weekend Eric! I stand by what I've said, and wish nothing but the best for both you and Al...people can make their own decisions concerning this matter...
God forbid anyone else from using scallops...This was not a Joel Davidas/Joe Calluca copy and that's obvious...and yes, I will stand up for my friends, as have yours...Good Day sir...
 
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Keep building what you want Al.This guy should get a patent then.I see nothing wrong with designs of similarity's.I see a hundreds of cuemakers making 6 point cues or 4 point cues.Should we go back in time and dig up the first 8 point cue ever made and say every other cuemakers 8 pointer is a cheap knock off?You make beautiful cues and in my opinion your prices are very fair in times of need and I think thats the biggest issue that nobody is saying.You charge alot less for alot more and to alot of American cuemakers that rains on there profit parade.You don't even need to respond to there insults,just let your cues do the talking:)Goodluck

Going there, huh? The ole' American gravy train again. You're correct that nobody has mentioned that yet. But now that you did, let's discuss it. Where did he get the idea for that cue? Stole it from an American. Where did he get the shaft wood & other materials for that cue? America. What specs & joint configurations is he using? American. What measurement scale is he using to get length, diameter, & weight? American standard. Who is his target market? American buyers. Who did this cue sell to? I'm guessing American. Who are you? I'm guessing not American. And lastly who did he screw over & steal the design from as well as dilute & devalue the design? An American cue maker.

Go ahead & bash on American cue makers & their "profit parade". Show your ignorance of understanding the costs & profit margins of building cues in America. But rest your mind knowing that without American cue makers, pool cues in general would still be basic spliced junk hanging on the walls of the pool room. Ever since a French prisoner glued leather to his tip 300 years ago, there's been no advancing change in pool cues that didn't come from American minds. Find one. Really, try. America created the cues you & every other player know & enjoy. We brought them to what they are today. And all you got to say is that we are on a "profit parade". And you justify a foreigner knocking off the designs because times are tough. I bet you voted for Obama, too, if you are American.
 
Sorry for starting this thread... I didn't see this coming....I should have not bought this cue if it was going to put me in the middle of all this shit.....It was a spontaneous purchase and now have buyers remorse. The only lessons in life you learn are the ones you pay for. Once again everyone my apology's too everyone involved.

I feel like you are the victim in this whole thing and I feel bad for you that what is suppose to pride and joy of new cue ownership has turned into this shit.

I'm pretty sure I know where you got this cue and if you want to recoup your expense, I'll take it off your hand and ship it to Eric. :D

Hidy Ho <--- smiley face but sincere offer
 
Point taken, Have a great weekend Eric! I stand by what I've said, and wish nothing but the best for both you and Al...people can make their own decisions concerning this matter...
God forbid anyone else from using scallops...This was not a Joel Davidas/Joe Calluca copy and that's obvious...and yes, I will stand up for my friends, as have yours...Good Day sir...

Likewise, you enjoy your weekend. I look at this whole conversation in real time as if we were all standing face to face. Thus far would have taken about 5 minutes, and nobody would be thinking that they like or dislike anybody. But we aren't face to face & the thread looks long. There's no laughing, no facial expressions, no tone of voice. Only words. And unless you can put yourself in the perspective of this being a conversation, then your interpretation of words & judgment of personalities will be distorted.

As for "scallops", where did that term come from? Possibly from the guy who created them? Just sayin.....
 
Keep building what you want Al.This guy should get a patent then.I see nothing wrong with designs of similarity's.I see a hundreds of cuemakers making 6 point cues or 4 point cues.Should we go back in time and dig up the first 8 point cue ever made and say every other cuemakers 8 pointer is a cheap knock off?You make beautiful cues and in my opinion your prices are very fair in times of need and I think thats the biggest issue that nobody is saying.You charge alot less for alot more and to alot of American cuemakers that rains on there profit parade.You don't even need to respond to there insults,just let your cues do the talking:)Goodluck

Not sure you get it man... Eric never mentioned the legality of the cue having scallops...nor did he say that Al copied his trademark... Instead he spoke on the ethics and the principle of what Al made... Kind of like an unwritten respect for another guys work....considering that Al and others would only be privy to his design by virtue of this forum. . . I believe that what Eric Is saying is legit. This is a community, on-line where guys like these two, and guys like us, can display their work. This all comes with the presumption that; regardless if we love or hate them, we will respect that somethings are uniquely theirs....by law or by principle is not for us to judge as we are not cue makers...

I for one wouldn't want to lose a cue maker like these two from the forum just because someone copied their design and they now feel as if posting their work poses too big a risk ....

I think Eric has a good stance here and he is willing to accept an apology if it truly is an apology and not a politically correct statement.

I say we sit back and hope for the best between these two great cue makers and not get into semantics. It's not us who have something at stake here. We can log off the computer and go on. Eric and Al on the other hand do this for a profession. So let's let them hash this out the best they can and if they ask for cheerleading, then we can pick sides.
 
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Going there, huh? The ole' American gravy train again. You're correct that nobody has mentioned that yet. But now that you did, let's discuss it. Where did he get the idea for that cue? Stole it from an American. Where did he get the shaft wood & other materials for that cue? America. What specs & joint configurations is he using? American. What measurement scale is he using to get length, diameter, & weight? American standard. Who is his target market? American buyers. Who did this cue sell to? I'm guessing American. Who are you? I'm guessing not American. And lastly who did he screw over & steal the design from as well as dilute & devalue the design? An American cue maker.

Go ahead & bash on American cue makers & their "profit parade". Show your ignorance of understanding the costs & profit margins of building cues in America. But rest your mind knowing that without American cue makers, pool cues in general would still be basic spliced junk hanging on the walls of the pool room. Ever since a French prisoner glued leather to his tip 300 years ago, there's been no advancing change in pool cues that didn't come from American minds. Find one. Really, try. America created the cues you & every other player know & enjoy. We brought them to what they are today. And all you got to say is that we are on a "profit parade". And you justify a foreigner knocking off the designs because times are tough. I bet you voted for Obama, too, if you are American.
Where did I bash American cuemakers?I said that he charges less,and American cuemakers generally charge more.And all this stuff about stealing from the American cuemakers and all the ideas and joints and wood is so funny and stupid it's pointless to discuss this cause you seem like your going off on a mild tirade.I'm actually in Canada where alot of top tier cuemakers around the world get there wood from.Canada has some of the best wood in the world,but you probably just forgot that,thats okay though.Look ,personally I do like your cues,but I truly believe Al liked the style and is trying it out.He's made hundreds of cues that look nothing like yours at all.If all his cues were like this I would understand a little more why you would be upset,but the man just liked the design and tryed it out on a few cues.I just see so many cues with similarity's but the ones that are brought to the forefront seem to be when they are built in the Phillipines not when its happening anywhere else.Str:scratchhead:angeOh well,I wish everybody goodluck and hope both of you are successful.Takecare Scott
 
Chris is a friend of mine, he has always wanted a Sugartree. He's a good guy that bought a cue he liked.:thumbup: Rod.
 
Not sure you get it man... Eric never mentioned the legality of the cue having scallops...nor did he say that Al copied his trademark... Instead he spoke on the ethics and the principle of what Al made... Kind of like an unwritten respect for another guys work....considering that Al and others would only be privy to his design by virtue of this forum. . . I believe that what Eric Is saying is legit. This is a community, on-line where guys like these two, and guys like us, can display their work. This all comes with the presumption that; regardless if we love or hate them, we will respect that somethings are uniquely theirs....by law or by principle is not for us to judge as we are not cue makers...

I for one wouldn't want to lose a cue maker like these two from the forum just because someone copied their design and they now feel as if posting their work poses too big a risk ....

I think Eric has a good stance here and he is willing to accept an apology if it truly is an apology and not a politically correct statement.

I say we sit back and hope for the best between these two great cue makers and not get into semantics. It's not us who have something at stake here. We can log off the computer and go on. Eric and Al on the other hand do this for a profession. So let's let them hash this out the best they can and if they ask for cheerleading, then we can pick sides.
Actually he did say Al copied him,thats what were talking about.This unwritten law of respect on this forum seems to get broken alot and forgiven quickly depending who you are and who you know.He bashed Al ,his integrity and his work,to me thats no way of solving anything.Oh well Al should be forgiven for this sinful act in about 140 years.:)Takecare
 
This whole thread is nonsense. Lol. He didn't get a patent so sorry about his Luck. With his attitude I would never order a cue from sugar tree. Oh that's right! You can't anyway! He only sells to wholesale! A custom cue maker that I can't order a custom cue from lol now that's an original idea. Maybe he should patent that before someone steals it :thumbup:
 
Bahhahahahahahahahhha

This whole thread is nonsense. Lol. He didn't get a patent so sorry about his Luck. With his attitude I would never order a cue from sugar tree. Oh that's right! You can't anyway! He only sells to wholesale! A custom cue maker that I can't order a custom cue from lol now that's an original idea. Maybe he should patent that before someone steals it :thumbup:

Trob I dont know how youd ever want another cue with that Sexy Timmy Scruggs Cue ya have ;) hahahahhahahah tryin to lighten this up a lil.

Trob cant wait till ya sell it ta me please hahahaha

All jokes aside good luck to all, i think you three should work this out via phone/email/pm and have this thread deleted. IMHO but on the flip side this is one reason I love AZ and its members
 
This whole thread is nonsense. Lol. He didn't get a patent so sorry about his Luck. With his attitude I would never order a cue from sugar tree. Oh that's right! You can't anyway! He only sells to wholesale! A custom cue maker that I can't order a custom cue from lol now that's an original idea. Maybe he should patent that before someone steals it :thumbup:

You're funny. You probably don't even have a decent stroke to grab one of Eric's cues. Like my friend Ted says, a Sugartree is way too much cue for you.


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Can someone please post the patent?

Really, until that is posted, how can you claim your design was stolen. Heck, it isn't even documented.

Are all the 4 point 4 veneer cues stolen?:confused:
 
Hi,

just my little observation, don´t need to see a patent to see if it´s a copy?!
It´s a copy!
I´m no expert on Eric´s cues but when I saw Al´s cue I thought Sugartree and I believe that many did.
Al - havn´t played or seen any of your cues "upfront" but I do see that you are good with wood. I visited PH back in 2005 and I must say that you are very skillful people.
I also saw that times are tough for many of your countrymen and many tried their best to make a buck of anything.
From the pics and the respond your cues are getting I think you do good with what you have.

regards

Chrippa
 
yes, every plain four point four veneer cue is a copy, but that is a little different. certain cuemakers have patterns or inlays that were unique to them at one time. for example, the lazy s ring on szamboti cues has been copied and everytime you see one for sale it says "szamboti-style" cue. other examples are the butt cap on black boar cues, haley's ringwork, and double-notched zinzola diamonds. szamboti also started propellers, now a lot of cuemakers use them, but some like showman have their own style of them to make them their own. there are some notched diamonds that when you see them you know who the cuemaker is. it's not that they need "patents" but you know who's style of cue it is.

now lately a lot of cues have been copied and for sale on ebay by silverztone altho some of his joel davidas cues are just variations of the same cue. that hasn't been taken very lightly and i think this has made this type of situation happen. this cue is obviously a "sugartree-style" cue or tribute cue and either should have been marketed and advertised as such or at least some communication with eric to say it has been done. and while the last few copies have been done by overseas cuemakers, there have been copies made by american cuemakers as well. the difference there is that right now the overseas copies are on ebay for short money.

yes we all have cues we like and cannot afford and in the past exact copies have been made but that doesn't make it correct. and because they look the same or very similar does not mean they were built the same way using the original cuemakers building techniques. if you gave two cuemakers all the same components to build a cue the two cues would not play the same because of the construction. so while the copy may look the same it won't play the same.

this is my take on the situation and i'm sure others will not see it the same way and some will agree. this is az.

guy
 
General Questions:
If Al wasn't a overseas cue-maker would this be an issue? Maybe Eric should look into a trademark or copyright patten so this doesn't happen again. I understand getting upset, but it comes across as a drama-queen hissy fit. Maybe Eric should expand his operations so he can produce more cues to help speed up his waiting list and become a fulltime cue maker, his cues are the Nutz, no doubt about it.!
 
man, we have got to get over the "overseas" issue. look back, not too long ago there was a real big issue here on az because one american cuemaker made a copy of a cue made my another american cuemaker. i won't dignify it with names, look it up. really, everyone needs to stop trying to cloud the issue by bringing in "overseas", the issue is strictly what it is. there is no patent issue here, just use of someone elses design. STOP the overseas's issue, that has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on this whatsoever.

guy
 
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So let me ask an honest question. Do you guys have a problem with jb flowers cases over jack justis? He makes a tribute case that looks like an exact replica for half the price! I don't see him complaining about it. Probably because he believes in the quality of his work enough not to worry about it. Not to mention the guy who buys the jb flowers case wasn't gonna pony up the dough for the justis case anyway? You could say the same for your cues. The guy who buys the cheaper knockoff wasnt gonna pay out the extra cash to get the real deal anyway.
 
You're funny. You probably don't even have a decent stroke to grab one of Eric's cues. Like my friend Ted says, a Sugartree is way too much cue for you.


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Yea I'm sure. Lol I'll put the hit of my scruggs over anything out there. I could have bought 2 sugartrees for what I paid for my scruggs. 3 for what I've been offered to sell it. No offense to sugartree I'm sure he makes a great hitting cue. I guess since your a wanna be cue maker your now the expert lol
 
not quite the same thing. the better question is the justis west versus the real justis. i do see some people trying to sell the justis west cases for what a real justis would go for but i don't think they are getting the price. the real thing will be worth nore every time. and justis had some dealings with the original justis west cases so there was some contact there. the jb tribute flowers cases are a different niche market and there was some heated discussion when they first came out, again look it up, there was no free pass on that one.

guy
 
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