Mr. Mark Griffin & Mr. Bill Stork

[justnum]

The following is one case of MG of BCAPL providing helpful information and another deciding whether or not to share info. (I will post the links or actual post of the things he is thinking about discussing.) The first post is a response about rumors or information he is thinking about responding to. The actual posts or on the way regarding the BCA and acquisition are en route.

Forum: Main Forum 03-30-2011, 10:07 PM
Replies: 186
BCA -- On the Road to Nowhere
Views: 5,607
Posted By Mark Griffin
Bca -

I have been involved in a lot of the things being discussed in this thread.

I am really trying to decide if I have the time and energy to explain some of the things the were going on behind the...

Summary: The BCAPL was discussed and rumors went on the thread (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=225515).

Griffin acknowledges that a rumor or disinformation took place but is deciding whether or not to address.

03-25-2011, 05:31 PM
Replies: 128
Bca vs Apa
Views: 4,541
Posted By Mark Griffin
BCA site

Catscradle - you are way overreacting.
The site only asks you agree that if you go to this site, it is for personal use. We had several instances where League Operators were getting spammed and...

A poster was given an explanation about a specific disclaimer policy regarding email policies. Someone had questions and they were answered.

 

[justnum]

A rumor

The rumor link about the BCAPL: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=225515&page=9

Page 9 of the BCA-- On the Road to Nowhere (post #131)

This was a specific rumor about the BCAPL acquisition I was referring to, the "battle of between John Lewis and Mark Griffin."

cardiac kid
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03-29-2011, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi
Thanks Tom. I know that Mark was on the buying end of the deal. The BCA was on the selling end of it.

I just wanted to know what Jay meant by "....All one has to do is look at how they handled the selling of their league system...."
Fran,

Just look at the deep dark division between Mark Griffin of the BCAPL and John Lewis of the ACS. After Mark bought the BCAPL, there was a very wasteful war between the two entities. John Lewis was the director of the BCA pool leagues. Somehow, perhaps Mark can enlighten us, John was moved aside (out bid?) and Mark became the new director / owner. John promptly began his own sanctioning body (ACS) and fought hard for the individual leagues making up the old BCA pool league. Perhaps that is the basis of the comment made earlier in this thread about local leagues wanting to buy the BCA pool league. Regardless, six years later there is only a lull in the war. Not a peace treaty.

For the betterment of all players, a way must be found to bring all sides together. The BCAPL, ACS, VNEA, TAP, APA and other smaller regional sanctioning bodies must get together and support all pool players. Notice there is no mention of pro players? Only the BCAPL has made an attempt to bring those players into the group. Mark began the Grand Master event in Vegas which is open to anyone paying the entry fee. All the other bodies treat pro players as pariahs.

Personally, I find most American pros to be self centered, self serving and myopic. None of them care about the group. Only what they can personally benefit from. That is why they fail. Again and again. Maybe it's time for all the real sanctioning bodies of American pool to get together and form a new group to represent our interests to the WPA. All it takes is co-operation and a want / need to succeed!

Lyn

To me the rumor is that "John was moved aside and Mark became director." The unanswered questions are why did John leave and on what terms did John leave the BCAPL on. The rumor part is the fact that no information is provided and is left open ended. Maybe its not a rumor just an interesting string of details that I call a rumor.

 

[justadub]

Mark Griffin is in a no-win situation here. He has a disgruntled player who has created at least some measure of conflict in one of his league areas.

He and his people have handled it, and now said player is here, trying to bait him into a public discussion about the whole deal.

As none of us could possibly know all the details involved, how does it benefit Mark to enter into this foolishness here online? Anything he says here can be twisted by the usual forum characters. Then he would have to spend an inordinate amount of time putting our fires generated from this thread.

Public discussion of an individual issue such as this will do nothing to ease this particular situation, and will only create further problems to deal with.

It's been said before, the folks that run the league have spoken. OP, if you do not like the answer, go play somewhere else. You have no "right" to play in their league if they don't want you there.

 

[justnum]

I am not here to slander Mark Griffin. I have been interested in learning. I asked the OP about his situation and details related to this situation, in hopes he may reveal some detail unraveling this quagmire.

The details that interest me are why the OP feels he was wrongly kicked out.

I relayed information to him about MG not to bait anyone but to relate character actions to character posts. Did it reveal anything? Nothing other than the unposted history of John Lewis and Mark Griffin during the transition period of BCAPL ownership. And that MG had an email problem awhile back through the BCAPL system that a poster felt was solved unusually.

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

Dear Scott Please live up to you handle. If a troublemaker is one who cares about the rules and wants and appreciates playing by them than I am one. Read your own thread. I don't understand the word blather and your right about the rest. Now go back and read the thread again, this time with understanding!

Carl...Sounds to me like they're completely justified in banning you. You're a troublemaker who doesn't want to play by the rules. I'd ban you too. You should take this blather somewhere else, or it might get you banned here too...not that you'd probably care.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

Rules posted on the Web Site, an advertising media, are certainly meant to be obeyed, reread what I wrote, you may reconsider!

So you don't like the rules? Then find another league to play in. Is it ok for someone to come into your business and tell you how to run it or which rules and regulations should and shouldn't be changed? I love how fanatical people get over pool league. I get the feeling this post is going to hurt you alot more than its going to help.

I encourage Mark to not even respond to this post, as the e-mails above actually do a perfectly fine job of defending the decision to ban Mr. McConnell.

Edit: Posting it twice in the main forum isn't too bright either.

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

Even the board of directors of the other BCA get a hearing with legal representation before being unseated.

I think this is going to be an unlucky #13 post for Mr. C. Carl McConnell.

Carl you are not on trial and they have a right to ban you for what ever reason.
If your rights under the constitution have been violated, then you would have a right to a fair trial. The same rules do not apply here.

You do have the right to remain silent, although you may not have the ability.

 

[jason]

Even the board of directors of the other BCA get a hearing with legal representation before being unseated.

What are you talking about? The BCA and the BCAPL are two different things.
MG purchased the BCAPL several years back. And what does the BOD of the BCA with legal representation have anything to do with you and the BCAPL? If you feel you were cheated or mislead, you can take them to small claims court and seek your $20 sanction fee back. Or you can continue to swim up stream.

Oh, but the way you haven't said anything about what the rule change was about. I'm sure it must be important.

 

[Wags]

The rumor link about the BCAPL: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=225515&page=9

Page 9 of the BCA-- On the Road to Nowhere (post #131)

This was a specific rumor about the BCAPL acquisition I was referring to, the "battle of between John Lewis and Mark Griffin."



To me the rumor is that "John was moved aside and Mark became director." The unanswered questions are why did John leave and on what terms did John leave the BCAPL on. The rumor part is the fact that no information is provided and is left open ended. Maybe its not a rumor just an interesting string of details that I call a rumor.

Since I was mentioned here, let me clarify. The thread was about the non-transparency of the BCA. It had nothing to do with MG or JL. Do not twist the intent. MG acted with honor throughout. The voting and turning the BCA into a strict trade organization is what I was referring to.

As to this situation...business is not a democracy. Mr. McConnell apparently pushed too many buttons too often. The BCAPL and the LO have every right. Their leagues, their rules.

I don't believe that Mr. McConnell is going to get the "up in arms" response that he wants from the people on AZ.

I would suggest to Mr. McConnell that he accept the sanctions, contact the BCAPL during the summer and use some forethought and diplomacy with the BCAPL and the LO.

As a former League Operator, Room Owner, MNBCA Board Member, MNACS Board Member, ACS National Board Member, BCA Referee, ACS Referee, Casino Tournament Promoter/Director AND Pool Player, if Mr. McConnell had come to me to suggest a change in rules, which I denied, and then he went about being a disruptive force to the league, I also would tell him to take a hike. Yes, whining and crying about the rules can be disruptive and that is all I've heard.

Leagues, for the most part are a night out playing pool and having a good time. If there is a complainer in the crowd that is working against the LO, nobody needs that or wants that.

Just don't play if it's so bad...............Oh, you can't.

 

[Scott Lee]

justnum... Mark is very open and honest about what happened, with the league sale, because all of it was already on record in BCA board meeting minutes. I don't have to defend Mark's integrity in this industry. It speaks for itself.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There are rumors that the acquisition of BCAPL was obtained with questionable means.

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

That's why I entered BCA not BCAPL, Billiard Congress of America and I mentioned it because of your reference to my not recieving a trial which everyone should be entitled to when simple acusations are enough to cost someone something expensive like their reputation. $20.00 is only a small part of my cost! The rule change was clearly spelled out in at least two places in the thread.

What are you talking about? The BCA and the BCAPL are two different things.
MG purchased the BCAPL several years back. And what does the BOD of the BCA with legal representation have anything to do with you and the BCAPL? If you feel you were cheated or mislead, you can take them to small claims court and seek your $20 sanction fee back. Or you can continue to swim up stream.

Oh, but the way you haven't said anything about what the rule change was about. I'm sure it must be important.

 

[derekdisco]

Cliff notes anyone? hook a brother up.

 

[brandoncook26]

It's an outrage that they would ban you. How dare Mark Griffin to run his business the way he sees fit!!!!

Are you serious? You have no legal recourse from being banned from a private entity. You know when you go in a store and you can get kicked out for being disruptive...same thing. They can change the rules any time they please and your only recourse is to stop paying them. How about you get a petition signed by 54% of people that says McDonalds can't serve burgers any longer. Take it to your local McD's and present it. See if they think it's a good idea and then try and sue when you show up tomorrow and there's no pizza on the menu.

Get over it. You will not have any agreement here. You are fighting a lost cause. Go play somewhere else.

AND....the BCA and the BCAPL have nothing to do with each other. Mark Griffin owns the BCAPL so whatever you're talking about with the BCA is pointless in this argument.

 

[JCIN]

Man there is a whole lot of crazy in this thread.

One thing I know is that if someone was able to get Mark and Bill so frustrated that they finally basically had to say "Screw it You're out." then they have really done something. I've seen both of those men handle situations that would have had me table flipping mad without ever batting an eye or raising their blood pressure. To get them to basically fire a customer would take a lot.

It sounds like the OP is not happy with BCAPL and the BCAPL is not happy with him. In this case its probably best for both to go do their own thing.

As for justnum...LOL...shine on you crazy diamond.

 

[mlalum]

Don't do it Mark. You're the clear winner here. You don't have to do it. It's a non-starter for the other guy. Let the forum handle your light work.

 

[jay helfert]

In every poolroom I've ever owned, there is ALWAYS a sign above the counter that reads, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." There is a good reason for that sign to be there, because of some of the characters who occasionally walk through those doors. I guess it can happen in a pool league as well.

 

[ribdoner]

Yo Carl,

Seems like your pissed, but, for the life of me i can't figure out why

In stead of writing long, disjointed paragraphs try making your point in a short, clear, summarized format

carry on.

 

[jason]

That's why I entered BCA not BCAPL, Billiard Congress of America and I mentioned it because of your reference to my not recieving a trial which everyone should be entitled to when simple acusations are enough to cost someone something expensive like their reputation. $20.00 is only a small part of my cost! The rule change was clearly spelled out in at least two places in the thread.

In one clear sentence, please describe the rule change that you say was so clearly spelled out.

 

[justadub]

In one clear sentence, please describe the rule change that you say was so clearly spelled out.

And what the BCA has to do with any of this? Did they exclude you from the trade show or something? How exactly would Mark be of any help with that?

:embarrassed2:

 

[jason]

And what the BCA has to do with any of this? Did they exclude you from the trade show or something? How exactly would Mark be of any help with that?

:embarrassed2:

The BCA has nothing to do with this. The OP was banned from the BCAPL over a rule discrepancy but has yet to describe what rule he thinks should change.

I have nothing to do with the BCA in anyway, shape or form. Why you would imply anything of such nature, baffles me. So what does your above statement have anything to do with the rule situation between the OP and the BCAPL?