better tables? Verhoeven vs Gabriels?

Not to hijack your question....but there are more than 2 very well made carom tables to choose from. Might I add Chevillotte, Billard Breton, Soren Sogaard, Eureka, Platin, Hermelin, Elitte..etc.?

My favorite is the one I played well on last.

Could Diamond become the best made billiard table?

Perhaps but they don't seem to be listening to carom players. But it is their company and they are entitled to not listen.
 
so why would you need Diamond to make a carom table with so many options?

Do you believe the quality of their pool tables beats the carom tables out there and wish to see them apply such quality to a carom table?
 
Nope. exchange rate....transport costs....turnaround time....access to parts....and last but not least.... mfg's ability to promote the sport in their own country.
 
smashmouth said:
Olhausen has been making carom tables for a very long time, what do you think of those?
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So has AE Schmidt and Brunswick but they're not really interested in the game, therefore the tables are inferior. Although Olhausen has made these for a long time on special order they've just recently started taking a harder look at this market. I wish them all the best in this. They as well as Diamond would be wise to get the input from the top players or IMO they'll be blowing in the wind.
 
3kushn is spot on.

I think Olhausen has been open to caroms and carom players. It is such a small market. The economy makes it difficult for most mfg.

And to make matters worse, we have become so comfortable with brand x from Europe. I'm not sure how open minded the American players are to having a quality table in this country. We are very brand conscious.
 
Quality of construction, great playability, and good looks. That's what all great european tables have in abundance. The antique brunswicks are the last of the line for those qualities in terms of US manufacturers offerings of carom tables. If olhausen, diamond or anyone else in the USA wants to make a great carom table, that even europeans would want to buy. All they have to do is pick a couple designs from across the pond. Follow the proven concepts and actually start marketing it around the world. They already have the network. However, as has already been stated. They just aren't interested. Probably believing that there aren't enough customers to support the development. Honestly, I can see their point, if they only tried to sell to north american customers. It definetly wouldn't be worthwhile, in that case. Picture old brunswick designs, with updated steel I-beam construction, and heated slate. Yes, I believe that would sell....
 
RSCA Hooligan,

Well....your opinion should be valued. But perhaps we need to get past whether you like Pepsi or Coke...Budweiser or Coors.

tiger37373,

I agree with your assessment. Not to pick on Diamond (because there is no reason to), but their strategy was to win over the professional/avid pool players to their product and then everyone else will want their product.

This was a successful marketing strategy.

However ,with their carom table, they are going to test market a 9ft table for the ethnic community (asian / hispanic ). At first blush this seems like a sound idea. The chassis can be the same. Less production costs...etc.

But what are professional 3C tournaments going to do with a 9ft. carom table? They're not.

Diamond is veering from their marketing success they had with pool.

But, like I said in my previous post, they have the prerogative to do what they choose fit.
 
Steve said: I do not believe that Diamond would be after the same market for a 10' billiard table as they are for the 8/9' carom tables.

Me: precisely

Steve said: Anyone remember these posts by RCK?

Me: yes, and I spoke to him at length. I also spoke to one of the principal owners of Diamond. They seem reluctant.
 
zensteve said:
Steve said: I do not believe that Diamond would be after the same market for a 10' billiard table as they are for the 8/9' carom tables.

Me: precisely

Steve said: Anyone remember these posts by RCK?

Me: yes, and I spoke to him at length. I also spoke to one of the principal owners of Diamond. They seem reluctant.
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Not reluctant....just patient;) First things first, with that being said, Diamond's next newest table out will be the ProAm 9ft straight rail billiards table. After that will be the "Wow"...5'x10' ProAm. Then...the 5'x10' 3C table. These things don't happen over night guys.

But to answer your questions....YES...Diamond IS interested in this market, and will be pursuing it soon enough...but not following in the designs of other 3C table manufactures....as I see the same flaws being incorporated in all of their designs...so they won't be used in the Diamond 3C billiards tables I can assure you of that.

Glen, the "Realkingcobra":cool:
 
Thanks Glen,

I appreciate your comments. Patience is a virtue. It can also be the wrong medicine for the times.

As you know, pool rooms have been decimated in the last 5 -10 years. I would venture to guess we've lost well over 50% of the pool rooms in this country.

I'm not suggesting building Diamond carom tables will reguvenate an anemic business climate for cue sports.

However, what I am suggesting is that Diamond "dance with them that brung ya".

Meaning.....Diamond went after the pro and avid pool players and stepped up to the plate by highlighting their equipment in almost every big tournament. That strategy has worked! Why reinvent that business model by building a 9ft carom table and a 10ft pool table.

Almost every professional carom tournament in the U.S and the world are played on 10ft tables.
 
zensteve said:
Thanks Glen,

I appreciate your comments. Patience is a virtue. It can also be the wrong medicine for the times.

As you know, pool rooms have been decimated in the last 5 -10 years. I would venture to guess we've lost well over 50% of the pool rooms in this country.

I'm not suggesting building Diamond carom tables will reguvenate an anemic business climate for cue sports.

However, what I am suggesting is that Diamond "dance with them that brung ya".

Meaning.....Diamond went after the pro and avid pool players and stepped up to the plate by highlighting their equipment in almost every big tournament. That strategy has worked! Why reinvent that business model by building a 9ft carom table and a 10ft pool table.

Almost every professional carom tournament in the U.S and the world are played on 10ft tables.
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Well, first of all, straight rail billiards is played mostly on 9ft billiards tables...and 3 cushion billiards is played mostly on 10's....but the two games are way different. Having been all over this country and I can safely say...I've seen more 9ft straight rail billiards tables than I've seen 10ft 3C tables. As far as building a 10ft pocket table and a 10ft 3C table...the use of these tables is totally different....so that requires two different tables, because if you want the best of each....then they have to be of a design each to their own.

You're kind of like the pool player that only likes playing on a 9ft pocket pool table in the sense that you don't feel that playing pool on a bar table is playing real pool, much the same way a bar table player looks at playing on a 9ft pool table...they just don't care for them much.

Leagues were formed to be played on bar tables....but pool rooms with full size tables still struggle to try and get the same bar leagues to play on their full size pool tables to generate business...and have a hard time doing so, while bars it seems have no problem forming leagues to play on 7ft bar tables.

As fas as 50% of the pool rooms in this country closing down in the last 5 to 10 years....not hardly. The pool rooms that have closed are the ones that did nothing to keep the customers coming back...when another pool room in the area opened sometimes...or just sat on their butts thinking that they didn't have to do anything to stay in business.

I've always said...pool rooms don't just go out of business....what they do...is fail to do the things needed to stay in business...and that's the truth. When room owners fail to put in food and alcohol...at least serve beer...and fail to take care of their pool tables...floors, bathrooms, parking lots, lighting.....what do you think is going to happen to their business?

Todays customers are more demanding than the way they use to be...puting up with junk pool tables to play on. No, todays customers are the ones that everyone calls the "ball bangers"....just because they can't play pool as well as the so called "regulars" that frequent a pool room...only thing is...they're the ones that are paying the bills. I can tell you from experience...they will LEAVE a pool room to go to another one that they feel their business is more welcome in...and when they do that....just say good night, the parties over!
 
zensteve said:
Fair enough Bill. But why would they then plan to build a 10ft pool table?
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For the sport of playing pool on a more challenging pocket pool table....and yes, for the better players to challenge themselves on. Kind of the same reason Asian billiards rooms full of 9ft straight rail billiards tables...install a couple of 10ft 3C tables...it's a beautiful game....played by ugly people....just not by ALL people:D
 
Glen: You're kind of like the pool player that only likes playing on a 9ft pocket pool table in the sense that you don't feel that playing pool on a bar table is playing real pool, much the same way a bar table player looks at playing on a 9ft pool table...they just don't care for them much.

Me: Nope. I'm sure you may be describing some people that think that way. Not me.

Me: I'm not sure your example is analogous. Would you play snooker on a 9ft table and if so, why?

Glen: Having been all over this country and I can safely say...I've seen more 9ft straight rail billiards tables than I've seen 10ft 3C tables.

Me: Yes and you've probably seen many many 8ft tables as well. Should Diamond promote tournaments on 8ft commercial tables?
 
Towards the end of engaging in some broad generalizations, in part just for the hell of it:

1- Soren Sogard - Like them, but they play short
2- Verhoeven - It's what I hope is available so I don't have to play on the Sogard next to it because that's the beginner's table
3- Gabriels - Love it but they always seem to have that terrible blue Diamond Table cloth on them
4- Chevillotte - Like a Gabriels but with a funky plastic strip running through each table corner. But a less douchy logo!


But for true, any of those tables will go to its grave playing better than I do, and I'd build a house around any given one if i could afford to.
 
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