Custom Case War observations

pathman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been engrossed reading all the poop about the custom case builders on here for the last several hours and for some stupid reason I feel compelled to weigh in on this. I've been an acquirer of custom cases for most of my life. I hesitate to say collector, because I've sold most of them just so I can buy more of them it seems. I've had them all, Fellini, Flowers, Justis, Murnak and even a Chas Clements that I designed with Chas, you name it I've had it. I don't think it is fair to compare most of these guys to each other at all, they do different things. Now these are just my opinions and personal observations as I've done business with most every case maker alive, so please don't flame me. Justis,Murnak, and Barton all build incredibly great cue cases whatever the price. I would call Justis for a case if I wanted to be able to customize a case based on a variation of standard options and tooling choices. I know Jack has done some truly exotic skins and incorporated some high end hand tooling into some of his cases over the years, but there is a fairly standard theme, if you like that, you will be happy.
If you want a case that can be compared to the finest heavy weight luggage ever made with a pretty damn good list of custom options and hand tooling, Murnak is your guy. I will say, be prepared to pay up front and wait, don't get uptight about the delivery date, and don't call bothering the guy every couple of weeks, you will get the case, and you will happy.
If you want an incredibly functional and well made case, and like to feel as if your getting bang for your buck, Barton is your guy. John is a true innovator in an industry that usually just kind of plods along. I've seen some of Johns cases that I didn't personally like and some I've loved, so it goes when you push the envelope.
If over the top custom hand tooling is your thing then try and convince Chas Clements to build your dream, but be forewarned, time means nothing to Chas, and every phone call will cost you a little bit more, but in the end, it's worth it. I could still kick myself for selling mine.
There are many more great case makers out there all doing fantastic work, but I thought I would focus on the ones that were the lightening rods for the crap I've been reading, and enjoying. Just thought this might help somebody pick out a builder for what they truly want. I currently own cases from all three of these builders and several others, and I use them all depending on where I'm going and what mood I happen to be in.
 
If over the top custom hand tooling is your thing then try and convince Chas Clements to build your dream, but be forewarned, time means nothing to Chas, and every phone call will cost you a little bit more, but in the end, it's worth it. I could still kick myself for selling mine.

To your knowledge, is Chas Clements currently building cases?
 
To your knowledge, is Chas Clements currently building cases?

I've read several things that would indicate he is no longer doing much of anything, but you never know till you get in touch with him. I'm sure his info is online somewhere, and I'm sure I've still got a business card somewhere if you need it.
 
That was a good post, path.
I think this most recent episode was because of a little tiff between Jack, and, John, although I really don't know any of the particulars about it, and to tell you the truth I don't care.
I was, however, a bit miffed when the thread was pulled. I was looking forward to a good show. :)
 
Jack shows his rear, that thread gets closed. Jack looks bad in the second thread, it gets pulled. My guess is the mod that pulled it is a Justis fan.....
 
Jack shows his rear, that thread gets closed. Jack looks bad in the second thread, it gets pulled. My guess is the mod that pulled it is a Justis fan.....

Yeah, could be, I really don't care about any of the controversy. I hate to see guys line up and take sides when all of these case makers are relevant for one reason or another. I hate when people try and force opinions on you as fact.
 
I've been engrossed reading all the poop about the custom case builders on here for the last several hours and for some stupid reason I feel compelled to weigh in on this. I've been an acquirer of custom cases for most of my life. I hesitate to say collector, because I've sold most of them just so I can buy more of them it seems. I've had them all, Fellini, Flowers, Justis, Murnak and even a Chas Clements that I designed with Chas, you name it I've had it. I don't think it is fair to compare most of these guys to each other at all, they do different things. Now these are just my opinions and personal observations as I've done business with most every case maker alive, so please don't flame me. Justis,Murnak, and Barton all build incredibly great cue cases whatever the price. I would call Justis for a case if I wanted to be able to customize a case based on a variation of standard options and tooling choices. I know Jack has done some truly exotic skins and incorporated some high end hand tooling into some of his cases over the years, but there is a fairly standard theme, if you like that, you will be happy.
If you want a case that can be compared to the finest heavy weight luggage ever made with a pretty damn good list of custom options and hand tooling, Murnak is your guy. I will say, be prepared to pay up front and wait, don't get uptight about the delivery date, and don't call bothering the guy every couple of weeks, you will get the case, and you will happy.
If you want an incredibly functional and well made case, and like to feel as if your getting bang for your buck, Barton is your guy. John is a true innovator in an industry that usually just kind of plods along. I've seen some of Johns cases that I didn't personally like and some I've loved, so it goes when you push the envelope.
If over the top custom hand tooling is your thing then try and convince Chas Clements to build your dream, but be forewarned, time means nothing to Chas, and every phone call will cost you a little bit more, but in the end, it's worth it. I could still kick myself for selling mine.
There are many more great case makers out there all doing fantastic work, but I thought I would focus on the ones that were the lightening rods for the crap I've been reading, and enjoying. Just thought this might help somebody pick out a builder for what they truly want. I currently own cases from all three of these builders and several others, and I use them all depending on where I'm going and what mood I happen to be in.


I think you have a really brought out some good subjects to think about and your experience I am certain is appreciated by many.

However, there is certainly one case maker in the group that I must comment upon and that is Chas Clements. A few years ago he agreed to build me a case and requested the entire amount up front. Because I did not know any better I sent him payment in full ($1275) and Chas gave me a completion date of approximately one year. We agreed upon a design and he told me to contact in six months that he would have an update on when the case would be completed.

Well time went by and all communications were abruptly ended, apparently he had become ill. Then I started to discover that he had taken money from a number people as far back as five years or more and never delivered a product. So I waited for well over year before I put out a warning thread here on AZ Billiards, and this is when John Barton brought additional information forward. Apparently John and Chas have been friends for many year's and John has a great deal of respect for Chas.

Do to my thread other forum members came forward with similar situations concerning Chas. Do to this John stepped up and offered to take care of any obligations Chas had with forum members, which was more than kind and certainly appreciated by me. At the time John and myself did not get along very well in our interaction here on the forum we both were out line and antagonized each other which was very stupid because we had never meet in person and also because on-line arguments solve nothing. While I did not want a case from John at the time, another forum member offered to pay me the money I was out, and John agreed to build that person a case in my place, which John did not have to do.


I would not recommend sending any money to Chas Clements in advance if he offers to build some one a case, I am not trying to flame the man, but I do believe if you are sick and can not deliver a product you should not take peoples money until you can meet your obligations to your customers.


JIMO
 
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Jack shows his rear, that thread gets closed. Jack looks bad in the second thread, it gets pulled. My guess is the mod that pulled it is a Justis fan.....


There is certainly some bias shown here on the forum, but that is Human nature and I think it is in many cases subconscious, at least I hope that is the case.

JIMO
 
There is certainly some bias shown here on the forum, but that is Human nature and I think it is in many cases subconscious, at least I hope that is the case.

JIMO

A recent post of mine from another thread.

"Seems to me that since Jerry Forsyth was added to the hall monitoring squad there has been an abundance of thread pulling. People that don't cozy up to his favorites get yanked."
 
A recent post of mine from another thread.

"Seems to me that since Jerry Forsyth was added to the hall monitoring squad there has been an abundance of thread pulling. People that don't cozy up to his favorites get yanked."


That is really wrong on many levels, and if there any facts to prove what you believe to be true I would contact the AZhousepro. I have a great deal of respect for Mike, even though I do not think he thinks much of me (I can be a pain in the ass)!!:)

However, I do think he is an honest guy who will do the right thing if he is shown that something is not right.

Take Care
 
That is really wrong on many levels, and if there any facts to prove what you believe to be true I would contact the AZhousepro. I have a great deal of respect for Mike, even though I do not think he thinks much of me (I can be a pain in the ass)!!:)

However, I do think he is an honest guy who will do the right thing if he is shown that something is not right.

Take Care

I may be wrong, I may be right. Its just an observation I've made.... Right or wrong I say what I think and I think what I say. In a case like this no one will admit it if I'm right, so why not say it...

Though in every instance I have dealt with Mike he has always been fair and up front.
 
That is really wrong on many levels, and if there any facts to prove what you believe to be true I would contact the AZhousepro. I have a great deal of respect for Mike, even though I do not think he thinks much of me (I can be a pain in the ass)!!:)

However, I do think he is an honest guy who will do the right thing if he is shown that something is not right.

Take Care

Mike has already said in another thread that there are no Members here only Guests.
 
To your knowledge, is Chas Clements currently building cases?


I believe Chris is retired because of health problems, this was discussed in another thread, by Manwon above, so if you have one of Chas Clements Pool Cue Cases I would say it is very collectable.
 
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I think you have a really brought out some good subjects to think about and your experience I am certain is appreciated by many.

However, there is certainly one case maker in the group that I must comment upon and that is Chas Clements. A few years ago he agreed to build me a case and requested the entire amount up front. Because I did not know any better I sent him payment in full ($1275) and Chas gave me a completion date of approximately one year. We agreed upon a design and he told me to contact in six months that he would have an update on when the case would be completed.

Well time went by and all communications were abruptly ended, apparently he had become ill. Then I started to discover that he had taken money from a number people as far back as five years or more and never delivered a product. So I waited for well over year before I put out a warning thread here on AZ Billiards, and this is when John Barton brought additional information forward. Apparently John and Chas have been friends for many year's and John has a great deal of respect for Chas.

Do to my thread other forum members came forward with similar situations concerning Chas. Do to this John stepped up and offered to take care of any obligations Chas had with forum members, which was more than kind and certainly appreciated by me. At the time John and myself did not get along very well in our interaction here on the forum we both were out line and antagonized each other which was very stupid because we had never meet in person and also because on-line arguments solve nothing. While I did not want a case from John at the time, another forum member offered to pay me the money I was out, and John agreed to build that person a case in my place, which John did not have to do.


I would not recommend sending any money to Chas Clements in advance if he offers to build some one a case, I am not trying to flame the man, but I do believe if you are sick and can not deliver a product you should not take peoples money until you can meet your obligations to your customers.


JIMO

That was a real stand-up thing for John to do. He offered to make good my deal with Chas but I turned down his offer because I, foolishly at that time, believed Chas would come through. Now after 10 years waiting it's obvious Chas will never produce a case for me. I just have to face the fact that I just lost $2,200. on the deal.

If I had it to do over again, I would have accepted John's offer. Oh, well.
 
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i paid up front with a case maker once for lots of cases and i got busy and didnt keep a eye on the deal, I got some of the cases, but not all of them. Due to the fact I was in germany back and forth getting back operations he took advantage of that and I didnt get everything I paid for. I never said anything until now. And they have a very good reputation, but I got screwed. Its sad that things like this happen-and this was before the economy crashed. He just played me.
 
War

By the time it is all said and done they will lose at least some respect from a majority. Sure they will both keep their die hard fans who believe each is right, but some of us will give future comments a second thought. A tarnished reputation is hard to clean. If you do not believe me, just look at an iTrader report or an eBay feedback. For 1 negetive, you need 20 good to drown that 1 out.

In the end, sometimes it is best to either not respond or ignore.
 
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