Trying to get rack your own implemented in a certain league

C

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Every season this 8-ball league I play in has a meeting where people vote on having rules changed or implemented. I've tried getting rack your own implemented since I started playing in it, but I always get shot down because the other players say that you can easily manipulate the rack to greatly increase your chance of making the eight on the break which is a win in this league.

I've always been under the impression that there is no way to manipulate the rack in favor of making the eight on the break that cannot easily be detected by your opponent or anyone else watching.

My main argument is that sometimes it seems like people give me bad racks on purpose because I've been the league's top shooter since I joined. People have taken offense to me having them re-rack more than once. League nights would go a lot smoother if I had nobody other than myself to blame for a bad rack.

Anyone have any advice on how to convince people to vote on getting this rule changed? And can people really manipulate the rack easily to make the eight on the break?

FWIW people will never vote to have the 8 on the break = win rule changed because they find it exciting.
 
Tried for years to get rack your own in a local league. I finally told them that it was optional. You could get your opponent to rack if you wanted. They were fine with that. Been doing it for years now and still, only about 10% rack their own. They say that it's bad luck to break your own rack. I personally think it's bad luck to break a loose rack. I will always rack my own given the option.
 
Its ugly right having people give you a bad rack, if noone wants to have rack/break your own the only thing is to have a rack that gives everyone the same rack like someone mentioned magic rack... Or have them vote 8 on the break aint a win then rack your own.
 
Our local league went to rack your own 9 ball this summer. No complaints,
no sign of trick racking (that I could detect) and no excuse if the rack turns out to be a slug.
 
BobTfromIL said:
Our local league went to rack your own 9 ball this summer. No complaints,
no sign of trick racking (that I could detect) and no excuse if the rack turns out to be a slug.
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That's the way that we did it in the 8-ball league that I ran for 10 years. It worked pretty well.

Some people don't know how to rack a tight rack. They typically didn't have a problem with the breaker racking their own.
 
ive always racked my own. Only way to get a good rack if you're playing with bangers. If i know im playing a player than ill have him or her rack.
 
Rack your own in 8 ball

How can the self-racker in 8 ball manipulate the rack to his advantage?
-making it easier to pocket the 8 ball? I wouldn't know how that's done.
-by not mixing up solids/stripes properly to create easier layouts? maybe

To me there's no problem with rack your own 8 ball. 9 ball, well that's another story and I love to rack my own.

Oh and since it was brought up Magic Rack is a major interferance. It traps balls withing the rack continually, especially in 9 ball. I could not imagine the problems using it in 8 ball on a barbox, balls would be all over it.
 
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I joined a new BCAPL 8 Ball league last year and we went rack your own from the outset. The main thing is it is faster because the rack is being inspected at the same time and there are rarely re-racks - basically only if a ball moves while the shooter is walking back to the head rail to break.

Like most leagues, people are in it for different reasons: competition, winning, fun, social aspect, seeing friends, getting drunk...whatever. Rack your own eliminates any of the awkward moments or dirty looks between players when the shooter has a bad snap for whatever reason. This happens a lot even if you are diligent in racking for an opponent because sometimes due to the table or worn balls it is just impossible to get a perfectly tight rack or a rack where the balls don't move. It just makes the league a little more social by eliminating any of those tensions that can arise between players when a rack is bad.

And it speeds up play.
 
Instead of rack your own, how about getting some Magic Racks and use those? 0 rack issues unless someone tilts it.
 
DoubleD said:
-Racking your own implies that you don't trust your opponent, regardless who he is. FWIW, I don't look at it that way. I believe that I can give myself a perfect rack more consistently than my opponent(s) will give me. It is a trust issue.. but not quite the way that you characterize it above.This is saying that you believe all pool players are not to be trusted. Seems to me that the popular media says that about us often enough without us perpetuating it.

-Racking your own allows for as much doctoring of the rack as racking for someone else, changing the outcome of the game. Regardless of who racks, I agree that doctoring is possible... but clearly the exception, by far.

-Racking used to be a pseudo-punishment--you win, you break; you lose, Rack'em, bitz. That's just a mindset. In a "rack your own" format, it obviously is not intended as a punishment. In most cases, it is intended to speed up the game.


dld
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My opinions in red above.

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

Cheers, brother :thumbup2:
 
DoubleD said:
As an opponent in a rack-your-own, I'd insist on inspecting every rack of my opponents.

Funny, considering I don't inspect any when my opponent racks for me.

What about tensions when the shooter snaps the nine off of his own doctored rack?

dld
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9 Ball has all kinds of racking issues we are all familiar with by now. But this thread is about the 8 Ball rack. Rigging a rack to snap the 8 is not so easy and I would think would be fairly obvious. Additionally, while not true in the OP's league, in other leagues (like mine) the 8 on the snap doesn't win. And while you might inspect every rack your opponent's create for themselves, fewer people would in rack your own than opponent rack. Do you actually disagree that rack your own is faster?
 
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DoubleD said:
I haven't been to any tourneys where opponent racking really took any noticeable time, but I'll concede that rack-your-own could be faster if you have a bunch of people who insist on examining every rack--never really been in those tourneys or leagues, tho.

What is the importance of speed, anyhow? I play against people who can't take a shot in less than twenty seconds, yet I'll rack for him (to his satisfaction) in ten.

dld
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Anything that can keep a league moving along, especially on a school night, is a help. In my league it probably isn't a big deal, it isn't that intense where every rack is being looked at under a Strickland glass. The competition is more friendly. Probably in my league the biggest benefit is simply that the rack is the shooter's responsibility so there aren't any of those sheepish "Oops, I'm sorry" when your opponent hits a slug on one of your racks. Just keeps it a little friendlier is all. :wink:
 
DoubleD said:
Rack your own is crap and I believe that it is a major detriment to the game.

Same feelings on the 'magic rack'.

Someone racking poorly doesn't bother me. I'm confident in my ability to play a better cluster/safety game than most people. Sure, it takes longer, but that won't bother me. Probably end up bothering my opponent, tho.

Plus, I get to see that person's character.

I say that if you need a tight rack, you are not confident enough in a very important aspect of the game.

I don't know, maybe I am hanging around with the wrong crowds. I've been playing serious amounts of pool for 17yrs and have never been around people who would purposely rack badly or complain about an occasional bad rack. Maybe it is the type of people I hang around.

dld
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This is not a good argument at all. Have you been playing any good players? When someone slug racks you, it's very hard to make a ball on the break. This means that your opponent gets the first shot, and if they are a good player, they lock you up and suffocate you until the rack is runnable.

Another reason why your point here is ridiculous is that the PROS always inspect racks, and they will make sure that every ball is frozen before they break, no matter how long it takes. Does that mean they are not "confident enough in a very important aspect of the game" like you say?

Thanks for the laugh :thumbup:
 
DoubleD said:
As an opponent in a rack-your-own, I'd insist on inspecting every rack of my opponents.

Funny, considering I don't inspect any when my opponent racks for me.

What about tensions when the shooter snaps the nine off of his own doctored rack?

dld
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How do you doctor a rack to make the 9 ball? Not doubting, just curious...
 
OneIron said:
How do you doctor a rack to make the 9 ball? Not doubting, just curious...
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Leave a gap between the 9 and the ball behind it. 9 goes to the corner opposite where you break from. That is part of why some tournaments don't count the money ball when made in the lower 2 corners.
 
DoubleD said:
Read my reply on the legality of the magic rack. Not allowing foreign objects on the playing surface is a base rule.
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That is a good point actually, I did not read the full post.

But there are many many tours (even at the top level like BCA ranking tournaments) that allow it and even specify that it will be used. I have seen it deflect balls rolling a bit, but I don't see that as a big enough thing to offset the fact (especially in 9-ball) that it keeps the rack true for everyone. Plus it is on the table for everyone's break, so where the balls end up is the same for all players, which is a wash.

We need someone to take some slow-mo shots with one to see how the balls move off and around the rack.
 
DoubleD said:
First, no, I only play people who were kicked out of APA for not being good enough. It is actually a question I ask. If someone good happens to challenge the table I am on I drop my Sportcraft cue, wet myself and run toward the door.

I'm really getting a sense of a bunch of people saying that top players will slug rack each other as often as possible. If that is the case, pool players deserve the crappy reputation we have.

The leagues I have played have included a rule that the opponent will do his best at giving a tight rack to the breaker. I trust people to play by the rules. If they don't play by the rules, I stop trusting them, which means that I will take action at that point.

Finally, my argument may have been funny to you, but at least it was an argument based upon something other than 'Daddy does it, I do too!'

dld
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Like I said, there is a very good reason why people inspect the rack. Especially when a guy is on the hill and you are stuck several games. Do you want to risk losing the set because your opponent gave you a slug? It can happen intentionally or accidentally.

One of the things that makes pool so unique from other games and sports is that you can lose a match without ever getting to play. If you are serious about the game at all and want to become a great player one day, you need to stop automatically trusting every opponent you play. Most of them you don't know, so how can you automatically judge their character?

That is incredibly foolish. While it can be foolish to automatically assume that everyone is trying to cheat you, the point is DON'T TAKE THE RISK.

It makes you a better person anyways to be able to take responsibility and blame yourself for your opponent's bad rack... simply because you didn't inspect it well enough.
 
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