Aromith accepts "Quality Control" discrepancy / Tournament Edition?

C

CrossSideLarry

Cross Side Larry
Silver Member
To fellow AZB member:

This was recently brought to my attenion and I find it unacceptable!

As outrageous as it sounds, Aramith admits to weight disparity in their costly Tournament Edition Balls. Next time you miss a shot requiring precision, i.e., bank shot or severe cut shot, weigh your set of balls including cue ball. Likely you will have considerable weight disparity How many balls you have of unlike weight, may surprise you?

For Aramith's official reply to player's recent challenge, send email: CrossideLarry@aol.com

Remember the law of physics: Where there is an action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"

In billiard considerations this law applies and affects each shot. When you strike a heavier object ball with a lighter cue ball, the results will be markedly different than when striking the lighter object ball with a heavier cue ball.

I rest my case!

Cross Side Larry
"Learn from the best, and beat the rest.
 
How much weight disparity you want to know?

My understanding is, each ball in a complete set, including cue ball should weigh a full six ounce.

Deviations of 5.75 - 5.80 - 5.85 - 5.90 have been found in checking multiple new sets of Aramith Tournament Edition balls.

Cross Side Larry
 
Cross side:

Just post their reply here. It shouldn't be top secret, unless you're protecting them.

Dave
 
The rules state: All balls must be composed of cast phenolic resin plastic and measure 2 ¼ (+.005) inches [5.715 cm (+ .127 mm)] in diameter and weigh 5 ½ to 6 oz [156 to 170 gms]

Now, I do not take this to mean that two balls out of the same set can weigh between 5.5 and 6 oz. Within any one set the balls should be very close.
 
CrossSideLarry said:
My understanding is, each ball in a complete set, including cue ball should weigh a full six ounce.

Deviations of 5.75 - 5.80 - 5.85 - 5.90 have been found in checking multiple new sets of Aramith Tournament Edition balls.

Cross Side Larry
Click to expand...

Too funny. That spread in weight will not be noticed during play.

It ain't that weight differences that is the root cause of misses.

I'm calling stirring shit up.
 
CrossSideLarry said:
To fellow AZB member:

This was recently brought to my attenion and I find it unacceptable!

As outrageous as it sounds, Aramith admits to weight disparity in their costly Tournament Edition Balls. Next time you miss a shot requiring precision, i.e., bank shot or severe cut shot, weigh your set of balls including cue ball. Likely you will have considerable weight disparity How many balls you have of unlike weight, may surprise you?

For Aramith's official reply to player's recent challenge, send email: CrossideLarry@aol.com

Remember the law of physics: Where there is an action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"

In billiard considerations this law applies and affects each shot. When you strike a heavier object ball with a lighter cue ball, the results will be markedly different than when striking the lighter object ball with a heavier cue ball.

I rest my case!

Cross Side Larry
"Learn from the best, and beat the rest.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to buy my scale I have advertised here on AZ...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=236097
 
Black-Balled said:
Kuh-POW!!

I am math handicapped, sorry to say! Can someone ples do the variance as a % of ball weight?

range: 5.75 - 5.80 - 5.85 - 5.90
so 5.9/5.75= max of 1.0261% variance ?? I am math handicapped!
Click to expand...

if the allowed range is from 5.5 to 6.0, let's take 5.75 as the average of what the ball should weigh.

5.75 is exactly at the average, so the difference is nil.
5.90 is .15 oz from the average, so the difference is 2.5%.

If you can feel a 2.5% difference between cue balls, more power to you.
.15 oz is about the weight of one goose down feather.
 
CrossSideLarry said:
To fellow AZB member:

This was recently brought to my attenion and I find it unacceptable!

As outrageous as it sounds, Aramith admits to weight disparity in their costly Tournament Edition Balls. Next time you miss a shot requiring precision, i.e., bank shot or severe cut shot, weigh your set of balls including cue ball. Likely you will have considerable weight disparity How many balls you have of unlike weight, may surprise you?

For Aramith's official reply to player's recent challenge, send email: CrossideLarry@aol.com

Remember the law of physics: Where there is an action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"

In billiard considerations this law applies and affects each shot. When you strike a heavier object ball with a lighter cue ball, the results will be markedly different than when striking the lighter object ball with a heavier cue ball.

I rest my case!

Cross Side Larry
"Learn from the best, and beat the rest.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen anything about this, nor can I find anything. As suggested before post the link or where the info came from. Until I see it, I would consider it unverified.
 
IMPROVISE_ADAPT_OVERCOME__89694_zoom.jpg


oohrah_cueball.jpg
 
Last edited:
I have weighed and measured the roundness of lots of ball sets. You will NEVER find a set where all the balls weigh exactly the same. While it's certainly easy enough to sort out balls to make perfectly matched sets this would lead to a huge mess in the market with people demanding sets that weigh exactly X and if they lose a ball then what?

In all my testing I have never yet found a set of balls which had more than 5% variance from the heaviest ball to the lightest. And this includes the dozens of polyester "cheap" ball sets from China I have had come across my desk.
 
I just weighed all 16 in my tourney set, and all came out 6.0 and a few 5.9, and that could be the scale, and I am using a expensive usps scale. Any thing close, can always vary .1, and that I ignore.

You have a bad scale, probably sir. Or you bought a counterfeit set on eBay from the Chinese, they rip off and knock off everything now. They are also selling knock off pro cup measles balls there, that are also coming in light. My set, came direct from Aramith, and not off Ebay. The tourneys are the finest balls every made, and they are more consistent than any other ball, what is your problem? They are totally superior all all the balls made in the past.

Go buy some cheap Chinese balls and go weigh them. Have a nice day. If you want the finest best balls on earth, they are the aramith tourneys. If you want to get ripped off, go find Ebay. If you want the real deal, go find a real Aramith dealer, there you don't get a crap copy.

There will always be somebody, that will knock and trash anything, they have nothing better to do.
 
That seems so unlike Aramith quality control.

I have 3 sets, Brunswick Centennials by Aramith, Aramith Super Pro, and SP TV, and never seen variance that large.
 

Attachments

  • Screen shot 2011-06-30 at 8.24.16 PM.png
    Screen shot 2011-06-30 at 8.24.16 PM.png
    34.6 KB · Views: 525
I got my tourneys weighed at a lab that one of my clients runs.

1~15 All 5.95~5.80 I ignored the last digit because it's meaningless (the vast majority were 5.90~5.95)
Cue Ball 5.92
Measle Ball 1 5.96
Measle Ball 2 5.88
Measle Ball 3 5.83

OP what numbers did you experience?

Nick
 
I think the biggest difference between different cue balls is found in the density of the plastic not the weight.

It is about the rebound of the ball not the weight. Both count don't get me wrong, but the real issue is how hard is the plastic? If you are noticing the issue while shooting it is either the size or density, and probably not the weight. IMO.

To prove this take various cue balls, and raise the one foot off the slate, and then drop them. The different types of cue balls will bounce different amounts into the air even though some will be the exact weight. Check the cue ball against the object balls too.

What this could mean (and does to me). If the cue ball is really hard the cue ball will move around a little easier. If it is soft it might have a hard time spinning, and might need more rpm's to get moving.
 
Ball weight,,,,,

I think there is a You Tube clip of someone doing just that with a set of ''Centenials'',,,,,,I'll have to check later,,,,
 
ctyhntr said:
That seems so unlike Aramith quality control.

I have 3 sets, Brunswick Centennials by Aramith, Aramith Super Pro, and SP TV, and never seen variance that large.
Click to expand...

wow, those seem on point, for lack of a better word. i weighed my centennials.... the data is somewhere, but i remember the 10 ball and the bluse circle cueball are markedly heavier. it never bothered me to be honest. slightly heavy cb seems to come off "true" in my opinion, i heard buddy mention that one day and i agree with him, although im sure its subjective. i had hypothesized that brusnwick might purposfully make the blue circle cb heavier to account for its heavier playing time.... any thoughts on this?

i found my data, its all in grams, and im too lazy to convert. i guess they are comperable. i guess the grams vs oz threw me off. noteworthy, my red circle, bought for $20 from hard times under glass case was a LOT lighter..........

Red Circle (bought seperate) 165.74

centennial set:
Blue Circle 169.5825
1-Ball 168.5463
2-Ball 168.4587
3-Ball 168.9926
4-Ball 168.047
5-Ball 168.6706
6-Ball 168.4041
7-Ball 167.5263
8-Ball 169.1521
9-Ball 168.3068
10-Ball 169.7267
11-Ball 168.908
12-Ball 168.1585
13-Ball 168.7598
14-Ball 168.7783
15-Ball 167.5693
 
Last edited:
Larry Fine said:
I just weighed all 16 in my tourney set, and all came out 6.0 and a few 5.9, and that could be the scale, and I am using a expensive usps scale. Any thing close, can always vary .1, and that I ignore.

You have a bad scale, probably sir. Or you bought a counterfeit set on eBay from the Chinese, they rip off and knock off everything now. They are also selling knock off pro cup measles balls there, that are also coming in light. My set, came direct from Aramith, and not off Ebay. The tourneys are the finest balls every made, and they are more consistent than any other ball, what is your problem? They are totally superior all all the balls made in the past.

Go buy some cheap Chinese balls and go weigh them. Have a nice day. If you want the finest best balls on earth, they are the aramith tourneys. If you want to get ripped off, go find Ebay. If you want the real deal, go find a real Aramith dealer, there you don't get a crap copy.

There will always be somebody, that will knock and trash anything, they have nothing better to do.
Click to expand...

Why the knock on the China balls?

What do you REALLY know about how balls are made that would lead you to believe that "Aramith" is SO SUPERIOR?

What makes you think that spheres made from plastic resin all cast in precision molds wouldn't have consistent weights?

Ball making isn't the most high tech business in the world you know. People have been turning spheres for thousands of years in China.

There are ball sets in China now that I am certain MOST people could not tell the difference between them and Aramith balls in look, feel or performance. These folks have worked hard to bring their standards up. I am not saying that any of these sets are totally as good as Aramiths but they are very close. Let's not confuse the issue here.
 
just gonna throw this out there...

JamisonNeu said:
I think the biggest difference between different cue balls is found in the density of the plastic not the weight.

It is about the rebound of the ball not the weight. Both count don't get me wrong, but the real issue is how hard is the plastic? If you are noticing the issue while shooting it is either the size or density, and probably not the weight. IMO.

To prove this take various cue balls, and raise the one foot off the slate, and then drop them. The different types of cue balls will bounce different amounts into the air even though some will be the exact weight. Check the cue ball against the object balls too.

What this could mean (and does to me). If the cue ball is really hard the cue ball will move around a little easier. If it is soft it might have a hard time spinning, and might need more rpm's to get moving.
Click to expand...

if the balls you're "testing" are the same size, and the same weight... then it is not possible for them to be a different density. Density is mass/volume. Composition and surface finish variances, sure. Not density if the size and weights are the same
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top