Greatest of all time

365 on 10 ft'er

Larry Fine said:
Actually I have read, it was just the opposite, he came up on 5x10's, with 4 l/2" pockets, not 4x9's with 4 3/4", and ran 365 on them, nobody has topped that one.
Click to expand...


It was the Deacon Irving Crane who ran 365 on a 10' table another great player whom also may get the nod as one of the greatest "working" players of all time
 
Blackjack said:
I'll make the argument for Nick Varner. He's won so many world titles in just about every pocket billiards discipline - he won almost every pro event one year - and he can walk, talk, and shoot pool while chewing bubble gum. Can Efren do that?
Click to expand...


Sadly, we can't quantify Efren's greatness because when he came here in America back in '85, his BEST DAYS were behind him. Tournaments of any pool dicipline doesn't exist in the Philippines and all he had to show was his legendary money games and stories that was passed down by the oldtimers there were he gave everybody an arm and leg and still outran them.

I used to skip school back in the early 70s just to watch him play money games playing Rotation. He just couldn't seem to miss and the one and only time you'll see any of his opponent shoot was when they lag were Efren usually wins, and that's all she wrote.

Legendary sportswriter John Grissim was probably the first foreigner from the Western world to document Efren's pool prowess. Here's a couple of articles for those who missed it:


http://www.billiardsdigest.com/new_30over30/4.php

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,188599,00.html


efren_caesar.gif
 
Earl Strickland when focused is the most skilled player to wield a cue. He runs 5 racks easily when he gets lucky breaks and when he is focused. He once ran 11 9 ball racks in a tournament.

Buddy Hall plays racks and racks of perfect 9-ball for years, so 2nd.
 
huckster said:
It was the Deacon Irving Crane who ran 365 on a 10' table another great player whom also may get the nod as one of the greatest "working" players of all time
Click to expand...

Crane's high run on a 5 x 10 was 309, which Mosconi tied and then later Mosconi ran 353, and then later ran 365.
 
another vote for varner. he is a word champ at all of the major games. great guy and great player!!!!!!
 
It's really nice to see Varner getting so much attention. I've often felt he gets less respect on this forum than he deserves. Still, as Jay Helfert has posted more than once, Sigel was just a bit stronger than Nick in almost all the disciplines.

No doubt, though, Varner's name belongs alongside the names of Sigel, Lassiter and Worst in the discussion of America's greatest ever all around pool players.

Still, Nick, to me, doesn't merit mention with Efren. Nick was not the best ever in any discipline. Efren is, arguably, the best one pocket player ever, the best eight ball player ever, and, some have suggested, the best rotation player ever. Outside of 14.1 and bank pool, I'm not sure Nick played any of the games better than Efren, although they were, perhaps, comparable in nine and ten ball.

Nick was one of the greatest ever, but not, in my view, THE greatest ever!
 
Another thing is that the "best" and the "greatest" aren't always the same thing. For example, Ronnie O'Sullivan is certainly the best snooker player ever (most skilled, most talented) but Hendry is the greatest, he accomplished way more than O'Sullivan...in a way O'Sullivan has underachieved quite a bit.

In pool, who knows? A lot of people consider Parica to be the best but he certainly hasn't done nearly as well as he's capable of in big events. He may have been more talented than Sigel but Sigel was a total winning machine in big events, beating champion after champion.
 
I could never take anything away from Efren, but I have a friend who asked Jeff Carter who was his toughest opponent and he answered Mike Sigel.
 
Efren Reyes AKA The guy who probably walks on water, and maybe Dippy Dave for getting the biggest spots ever.
 
enzo said:
i have a few tapes of sigel vs efren 9ball. u just have to watch them, i dont know, back in the late 80's sigel just had his number-- for whatever thats worth. i have one match where sigel plays bad and beats efren, efren misses straight in balls all over and hooks himself. we all know he "corrected" all this and is a great champ, but i truly believe if you talk about sheer will to win and ability to get there in any game (if he had wanted to), id go with sigel. i just loved his game and he had the tools with respect to shooting perhaps straighter than anyone and i think it has to do with his instincts and will to win. but, he focused on 9 ball and perhaps 14.1 as this was where the action was im sure.

i just wanted to add, i think the greatest compliment pool players pay sigel (without knowing it) is that he was so lucky. i just laugh everytime i hear this. the man played hi level competitive pool for 30 or so years, and he just kept getting lucky??! danny diliberto had the funniest comeback to somebody stating sigel isnt lucky, he said "if you dont think sigel is lucky, go fishing with him." i love that because it assumes fishing is a lucky sport-- its not... and a good fisherman will, yes, catch fish when you dont. i think sigel's "luck" was the residue of amazing instincts, good thinking and hard work.
Click to expand...

Sigel is, surprisingly enough, underrated when it comes to all time greatest.
 
9BallPaul said:
Any discussion of Mosconi must include the tables he played on. Generous is a polite way to describe them. Modern players compete on tight equipment.
Click to expand...

Didn't the players Mosconi competed against play on the same tables?
 
sjm said:
It's really nice to see Varner getting so much attention. I've often felt he gets less respect on this forum than he deserves. Still, as Jay Helfert has posted more than once, Sigel was just a bit stronger than Nick in almost all the disciplines.

No doubt, though, Varner's name belongs alongside the names of Sigel, Lassiter and Worst in the discussion of America's greatest ever all around pool players.

Still, Nick, to me, doesn't merit mention with Efren. Nick was not the best ever in any discipline. Efren is, arguably, the best one pocket player ever, the best eight ball player ever, and, some have suggested, the best rotation player ever. Outside of 14.1 and bank pool, I'm not sure Nick played any of the games better than Efren, although they were, perhaps, comparable in nine and ten ball.

Nick was one of the greatest ever, but not, in my view, THE greatest ever!
Click to expand...

i respond to this because im really very curious what knowledgeable people have to say, id like to know the truth......

i thought there were filipino rotation specialists who played better rotation than efren. hell, i thought leonardo andam was one of them. andam would ROB great american players playing rotation. anyway, im curious what people have to say about efren being the greatest at rotation-- im juist not sure thats true.
 
PoolBum said:
I don't believe that for a second.
Click to expand...

i agree with you. pool players go through distinc stages.... it seems every player is the same. and initial stage where they shoot at everything, and make it and run out from everywhere and beat everyone. then they really learn pool, the difficult shots become more difficult for some reason, and this is as a result of learning better cb movement. lets face it, unless efren practices hard shots everyday, hes not shooting those a lot. so, i know i heard efren say at derby he played better in the 70's, but im with you, i bet he played his best pool about 5 or so years ago or whenever it was-- he just didnt know it. i bet he made more amazing single shots when he was young, but didnt play better overall.
 
1. Greenleaf
2. Mosconi
3. Crane
4. Mizerak
5. Varner
6. Sigel
7. Hall
8. Archer
9. Reyes
10. Strickland
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top