The Break - Ball in Hand after the Break and the Five Ball
- Thread starter Roadie
- Start date
I've played a pro with the 5, no BIH, winner breaks, and broke even. Does that count?
Depends on the pro. The top tier pros can give the bottom tier pros the 5 and still be the favorite.
That is why playing the ghost is not a true indicator of how you would do. Plus you would have to have a lock up safety as pros are very good at kicking, and jump shots.
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I couldn't get Earl to give me that, ever. I have never been able to get anyone to come close to that weight. Most weight I have ever gotten was the last 3 from a fairly strong player for $1000 set, race to 7. I kept the first one close(7-5) to promote the second set, the second wasn't even fair though(7-1). That was 6-7 months ago roughly. That guy gave me the nuts though. I couldn't forsee anyone giving me breaks, BIH and 5 out, but I will gladly take it from anyone !!
That doesn't make any sense to me. A top pro, Earl or Efren or Bustamante, versus a lower end Pro ? Who is a lower end Pro ? SVB isn't as good as any one of them, but they certainly cant give him that weight. Rob Saez ( another good friend of mine) isn't as consistent as these guys, but they couldn't ever give him that weight. A top pro could possibly give that to what I would call an above average player. Meaning the consistency of running out would be around 3-5 racks broke and ran out of 10. I'd say that because most of the problems with running out are in the first 5 balls.
You're right, and this guy was not a top tier pro.
Crazy statement of the year.
Totally agree !!
Just for the record, get ahold of anyone that will give me that, and I will take that weight. Anyone !!!
I dont think there is alot of high dollar usa action for unknowns with this game.
To get down for a large dollar set getting the 5, the breaks and bih after the break...you can bet even more that the other side is very comfortable they know your true speed.
To get down for a large dollar set getting the 5, the breaks and bih after the break...you can bet even more that the other side is very comfortable they know your true speed.
That one and the one Chris_Horton made just below that saying SVB isn't near as good as Earl, Efren, or Busty. Who, other than him, doesn't consider Shane an elite level pro?
Ok, I have to disagree here a little bit. Chris Bartram would by everyone's definition be a pro and look at the weight Orcullo gives him and Orcullo has won convincingly a couple times.
If you stretch the pro player definition to someone like Scooter Goodman or Jonathan Tedder who have never had a job other than pool for more than a month, then there are a few pros who could give up the 5 ball and rob them.
Shane is an awesome player! Not saying he is a bad pro. But that is my point, who is a low level pro ?
I have seen not-as-well-known pro's like Rob Saez play just as good as Earl can.
Who is a bottom-Tier pro so to say ? The only difference there could be is consistency, break ability, and safety abilities. Those could be the only thing that hold apart those skills. And needless to say, if you are a pro, you can handle your own when it comes to these.
"Pro" meaning the speed, not what they do for a living. Scooter is not a pro speed player. I would call someone like Marc Vidal, Jeremy Sossei, James Roberts, Shaun Wilkie, Josh Brothers, etc lower tier professionals. Dennis would get robbed giving any of them the 5ball.
Rob Saez is not a lower tier pro. He's somewhere in the middle.
I think most of the difference in a professionals game lies in consistency, as you said. I would say that Rob is a lower tier pro (not at the bottom but not a top). He has had stretches where he plays as good as anyone, but he doesn't stay there. The difference is Earl or Shane or Bustamante play at that high level almost all the time.
It's also hard to define because there is no real way of measuring ability in America. The only time all of these guys get together is the Derby or the US Open. At these tournaments, typically what would be the top tier players end up winning.
I hope so. I haven't been able to hang with him in a while because he moved just south of me in Florida. I am glad to hear his game is doing that well.
I think he means shortstop level players when he says "lower level pro". And in that case I would have to agree. I saw Parica once give Frankie Hernandez the 6 and rob him. I saw Marcus Chamat give L'il John the 6 and I believe they broke even. In the mid 90's Mark Tadd gave Ginky the 6 and they broke even, this was before Ginky reached his full potential of course but he was already better than a shortstop at that point. I remember Frankie Hernandez saying something like "When you're playing someone at that level it's a race to the one ball...the spot doesn't mean as much as you might think."
I believe Parica gave Kucharo the 7 and out and beat him, this was when Kucharo was a touring pro and a threat to win big events.
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Yeah but Bart didn't get the 5 ball. IIRC, he was getting the call 7/8 playing 10 ball. Big difference in the 5 playing 9 ball and the 8 playing 10 ball.
I don't think any pro can play another pro giving the 5 playing 9 ball.
Sir, when your playing someone at that level, it is a race to the one ball and giving the breaks & BIH with it, is financial suicide. Like I said, I will humbly take that weight from anyone in the world, and go broke if I had to. I win that everytime. If you give up the breaks, you gave up everything because you dont have the ability to sit someone in their chair. That is the bottom line, and that is why the rest of the weight wont matter.