ABP please dont go to the U.S. Open
- Thread starter JumpinJoe
- Start date
The concept of not getting paid here is really beat to death. The thing that I think that is hardly said is the fact that only the very top finishers are not getting paid on the spot. So for all the players grinding out the expenses to get there, they are getting paid when they get in the cash. There are no guarantees to win an event like this or get top 3. So if someone is counting on a top 3 finish money at the end of the week to not be in a bind with life then they should rethink the whole process.
Which scenario is better?
a. Get paid your 2500.00 on the spot because you min cashed
b. Wait 3 months to get 40,000.00 because you won the event
c. Win event and get 2500.00 on the spot (or some relative number) and get remainder of 40k within x days guaranteed.
I don't see the problem here as long as every penny has been paid out. I had to wait almost a month to get a pretty big check offline from a poker tourney win....do you think I was pissed or happy that I had that cash coming?
~Perk
Which scenario is better?
a. Get paid your 2500.00 on the spot because you min cashed
b. Wait 3 months to get 40,000.00 because you won the event
c. Win event and get 2500.00 on the spot (or some relative number) and get remainder of 40k within x days guaranteed.
I don't see the problem here as long as every penny has been paid out. I had to wait almost a month to get a pretty big check offline from a poker tourney win....do you think I was pissed or happy that I had that cash coming?
~Perk
Well said, Perk. :smile:
When doing business with the Federal Government, you can only be paid by a credit card if the amount is less than $2,500. Actually, though, I think they raised that to $3,000 last year. For amounts above that threshold, you must have a purchase order, submit your invoice to the procurement POC, and wait 30 days for payment.
Maybe not hundreds but a great few out there can play Jam up pool with the best of em!!! Who knows maybe there's a world beater like Engel rght under everybodies noses!! Who's to say that anybody at anytime can't play like a world pro?? I've seen Efern miss ball in hand!! So maybe he shouod be a second rate player than
I never won a tournament in the 3 years I lived in SF but. I did beat Billy Palmer even up!! I won 5-4 and I never made one mistake!! That day I played like a true professional. Sure the difference is that the pros do this all the time and bangers like myself play this way 50/50 but.... Anybody at anytime can RISE to the occasion and that in itself.... would be beautiful to see
Aw, shucks, RunnoutJJ. I'm flattered to have you think so highly of my game! :woot:
I guess the cat's out of the bag now. I'm going to have to be spotting everybody from here on in! :smile-us-down:
Considering the list the answer is yes. The majority of the players on the list are unknown and could not win the US Open on a bet. They could be replaced with equal if not better unknowns that play today all over the country.
You are focusing on just a very few who may be missed for sure by the hard core fans but life will go on and people will have a great time at a great tournament. They will be yesterdays news as new stars are born.
Just look at Golf, do you miss Tiger? Maybe, but there was no shortage for others great players to grab the spotlight real quick as they become the new "Must see players".
No one person is bigger then any sport, anyone can be replaced.
Not everyone can join an NFL replacement team, but any schmo with $500 can get in the U.S. Open. I think it would be good for the SPORT for a non-pro player to get his 12 months of fame. JMO.
At VF this year I was watching the straight pool challenge and a couple TAP players walked up to watch for a minute or two. They had no clue who Alex Pagulayan and Mika Immonen were that were hitting balls at that point were. I think the US Open will go on and be just fine even if certain players don't show up.
With that said, last weekend at a tourney in Maryland I overheard quite a bit of conversation about this topic. So pool players and fans outside of just AZ are in fact discussing this issue.
With that said, last weekend at a tourney in Maryland I overheard quite a bit of conversation about this topic. So pool players and fans outside of just AZ are in fact discussing this issue.
while this and other comments are of course true, the question raised is whats best for pool? i just dont see how having the best players not play is good for pool. on the golf/Tiger analogy, while you are correct that others did rise to the top (i mean someone has to win right?), no one is dominant in the way he was and i believe that it was commentary during the us open that since Tiger hasnt been playing that golf's ratings have been down.
brian
What
I can't think of anything more boring than watching a couple of "hacks" go at it on a pool table. I would hate to pay my money and that is what I got to see. I want to see seasoned pool players go at it for my money.
I attend these events to learn from watching the best compete. What am I going to learn by watching some "wanna-be's"?
Everyone seems to be throwing opinions around like they know all of the facts, and can discern who is telling the truth between the ABP and BB. One says something and the other denies it. Who knows?
Players deserve to be payed on time. That's just me.
I can't think of anything more boring than watching a couple of "hacks" go at it on a pool table. I would hate to pay my money and that is what I got to see. I want to see seasoned pool players go at it for my money.
I attend these events to learn from watching the best compete. What am I going to learn by watching some "wanna-be's"?
Everyone seems to be throwing opinions around like they know all of the facts, and can discern who is telling the truth between the ABP and BB. One says something and the other denies it. Who knows?
Players deserve to be payed on time. That's just me.
They didn't just rise to the top, they replaced Tiger. In fact it would take the Tiger of 10 years ago to even compete with this new crop of golfers. No one player is bigger then any one sport, that is just a fact.
The APB imagined they had a power that never existed in the first place.
Brian, I am not sure anyone actually believes this is good for pool. When both sides are anchoring down its for their best interests, not for the overall state of pool. This is just an example of history repeating itself yet again. In this instance its easy to see valid issues for both sides which is why this is such a heated topic among the pool community.
I am in the opinion that there really is not a strong enough brand with pool to where the impact will be similar to your Tiger analogy.
~Perk
"Probaly will be the best thing for pool if you all dont show."-from OP
i agree with the points you have made Perk, but the OP did say that it would better for pool if the top players didnt play, so again i really cant see how its better if the top players dont play.
macguy-in every generation great players are superceded by those of the next generation. i get that. however as a fan of the game if i am going to travel and expend resources i want to see the "name" players and if i get so see "the next player" then thats a bonus. isnt that whats good for the game?
brian
Exactly. I agree with your statement, Perk. Especially the highlighted part.
As much as I would like to get paid at the end of the tournament, if I know prior to the event that I may not be paid immediately following, it's then my choice as to whether or not to play. Reading many of the threads here in regards to that subject, it's hardly a secret that this is the way Barry pays out. And if I don't want to wait for Barry to pay me my money, then maybe I shouldn't play.
The other thing I'm reading/hearing is that so many of the pros have to front expenses to attend these events. WTF, so do I !!! Amateurs have to invest just as much as the pros when any of them choose to play in any tournament.
Now I'm curious. What exactly do the pros put on thier W-2's in the 'occupation' column ? Is thier full-time job "professional pool player" ? Professional card players I believe have to compete in X amount of events for X amount of years to be allowed to claim that as thier job. I know that someone can't just win one poker tournament and say "I'm a pro". I don't know exactly what the parameters are, but I have to imagine the requirements would be similar in any sport that one claims as thier primary source of income (golf, tennis, etc.).
But if the pros list "professional pool player as thier occupation", then (unlike us amateurs) don't they get to claim these expenses on thier tax returns ?
ABP player list
Just an FYI.
Notable players names that I didn't see on the ABP boycott list (I am undoubtedly still missing some but these are just a handful that come to mind).
Its a fairly impressive list by anybody's standards. Feel free to add some more, lets see what the US Open would like like with the ABP boycott.
Strickland
Souquet
G. Owen
Melling
Dechaine
Peach
Nevel
Alcano
Varner
Ellerman
Van Den Berg
J. Morra
Klatt
Parica
Bartram
Alcaide
Gabica
M. Gray
Stepanov
Eberle
Ulrich
Engel
D. Mills
Just an FYI.
Notable players names that I didn't see on the ABP boycott list (I am undoubtedly still missing some but these are just a handful that come to mind).
Its a fairly impressive list by anybody's standards. Feel free to add some more, lets see what the US Open would like like with the ABP boycott.
Strickland
Souquet
G. Owen
Melling
Dechaine
Peach
Nevel
Alcano
Varner
Ellerman
Van Den Berg
J. Morra
Klatt
Parica
Bartram
Alcaide
Gabica
M. Gray
Stepanov
Eberle
Ulrich
Engel
D. Mills
They write "pool player" in the portion of the tax return. I can't remember what tax number it is designated, but the words say "pool player."
If you save receipts from tournament expenses, you can claim them as a write-off.
I'm not sure if Barry Behrman sends out 1099 forms to the players that make over 600 bucks. I know Zuglan and Hopkins do.
Astrologically speaking:
Barry is an Aries. Aries are ready to fight with any one and they don`t back down .I call Aries men as 'Buldozer's and they try to buldoze what ever comes in their way. By the way, the Aries women are 'HOT' with their high energy and outgoing nature.
Ofcourse every one knows that Johny is a scorpio. Scorpios also love to fight.Scorpios are known to dig their heels and never give up and they don`t back down. Very difficult to predict the outcome in a duel between a scorpio and a Aries because generally neither scorpio nor Aries have the ability to compromise. However , Barry showed his ability to compromise as evidenced in his offerings.He even offered the corporate seal and rights for the USOpen. That was never heard in the business world. That is a compromise to extreme degree but the pros failed to acknowledge and reciprocate.
I was not in pool business but it is my understanding that the pool tournaments are promoted by the promoters for their love of the game and the profit margins are thin and amount only to ' Fish Heads'.
Barry is an Aries. Aries are ready to fight with any one and they don`t back down .I call Aries men as 'Buldozer's and they try to buldoze what ever comes in their way. By the way, the Aries women are 'HOT' with their high energy and outgoing nature.
Ofcourse every one knows that Johny is a scorpio. Scorpios also love to fight.Scorpios are known to dig their heels and never give up and they don`t back down. Very difficult to predict the outcome in a duel between a scorpio and a Aries because generally neither scorpio nor Aries have the ability to compromise. However , Barry showed his ability to compromise as evidenced in his offerings.He even offered the corporate seal and rights for the USOpen. That was never heard in the business world. That is a compromise to extreme degree but the pros failed to acknowledge and reciprocate.
I was not in pool business but it is my understanding that the pool tournaments are promoted by the promoters for their love of the game and the profit margins are thin and amount only to ' Fish Heads'.
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It is certainly best if all the top players play, at least from a fans point of view, but if for some reason be it illness, or personal matters they can't, they are not essential. The US Open is a real happening event, it is greater then the sum total of it's parts. Anyone who goes will leave thrilled and entertained with stories they will tell for years.
The torch is always passed that is just a fact and it is great to witness, but is is going to happen weather the one stepping down is there or not. When US Open tournament is over this board will be abuzz with all the stories of the players who were there and the great matches and this controversy will be forgotten. And everybody will be paid.
I appreciate your thoughts, but I totally disagree. There are many tournaments held today in which the so-called "pros" have to spot the lesser skilled players in the event. Everybody loves to pull for the underdog. Well, at least I know I do.
With the lady pros attending the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, there will still be first-class talent in the house. Whenever I have been to a mixed pool tournament, such as, say, Joss/Turning Stone in Verona, NY, everybody in the crowds most definitely is pulling for the ladies, sweating their matches, not giving the so-called "male pros" very much attention. Even the people that work at the casino come to the arena to watch the lady pros strut their stuff on a field of green. They're a big attraction.
If the ABP doesn't show this year, there will still be Earl and t hose who follow the beat of their own drum that will show up to play pool. Barry should get rid of all seeding and free entry fees from here on in. He should also raise the entry free for anybody associated with the ABP to $600, if paid early, and $700 on the day of the event for all the grief and drama this whole brouhaha is causing. JMHO, FWIW! :smile:
Jam.... I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I was at the Open last year and as much as I agree that the women are a somewhat larger draw I don't think it is going to make up for the lack of top pro's. Last year there were only a handful of women playing anyway and a good portion had their entry fees paid for by JR.....you did have Sarah Rousey and Gerda as a couple of the main attractions but after that, say Earl gets knocked out early, are there really that many people that want to watch Mike Dechaine and Shawn Wilkie battle it out? Any tournament without Efren just isn't the same see Derby 2011. Plus you will be missing the defending champions from the last 4 years. I think if you and Keith were still waiting for a $10,000 check from March that was "In the mail" you might have a different viewpoint. JMHO
Dave
Well, it's funny you should bring up the $10,000 number, because that's *eaxctly" what Keith won coming in third place in 2003. :grin:
After the tournament was over, Barry gave everybody checks. We decided that we would stay over an extra night and cash the check at the local bank it was written on the next morning, mainly because we had to pay out a saver in cash to somebody who had to leave, cash I had to get out of a few ATM machines on our end.
The next morning at about 8:45 a.m., I drive over to the bank, and there's like five or six cars in the parking lot. I got out of my car and went to the door to wait for it to open. I was the first one in line, Jose Parica's backer was behind me. Jose came in second that year. We all got our cheese and went home to live happily ever after, as they say in the movies. My point is that the cheese was available when we all cashed our checks. :smile:
About Mike Dechaine and Shawn Wilkie, well, they may not be Francisco Bustamante or Earl Strickland, but both of these are the American young guns and possibly our American champions of the future. One never knows how far their pool careers will go. Everybody has a streak in pool. Some streaks last longer than others. Time will tell how far these two kiddies will fare in the coming years.
Are you saying J.R. Calvert paid the entry fees of the lady pros to Barry Behrman for the U.S. Open last year? Wow! Things must be going well for InsidePOOL.
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