The Draw Shot
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
HAHA
I guess that is the reason this isn't posted in ask the instructor section.
I Am a motivational speaker of sorts like a mind ninja.
I am more of an untalented visionary!
I'm with you on the first part (friction) and that now makes sense to me.
The 2nd part has me scratching my head a bit. I think I understand the shot you are referring to, but your description of it brings me back to my initial question: If you "can get more draw for the same amount of object ball movement" by jacking up, doesn't that imply that you are getting more draw jacked up vs. with a more level cue?
I'm certain I'm just not reading your post correctly since I did understand your explanation of friction.
BasementDweller:
Apologies for seeing this only now and jumping in. (Methinks, though, that it was my post that caused you to initially ask this question?)
I think the key words in Patrick's reply was "spin/speed ratio." When you hit a draw shot with a level cue, you get more forward motion than you do spin. (I.e. the cue ball travels farther before the draw "burns off.") When you hit a draw shot with a jacked-up cue, you get more spin than you do forward motion. Hence, "spin/speed ratio."
The problem with hitting draw shots with a jacked-up cue are two-fold:
1. Shot accuracy. By jacking up the cue, you are now no longer focusing your cue on the straight line to the object ball, but rather downward into the cloth. That is to say, you're trading off some of your "guaranteed straight forward motion" with some that goes into the cloth. You're trading off your straight sightline with that jacked-up cue. Unless you're a machine that's capable of hitting the cue ball perfectly straight even while jacked up, you have only a general idea of your sightline.
2. Depending on how much you jack up, it's quite possible that much of your cue ball's draw will "burn off" before it even arrives to the object ball. This is especially true with draw shots where there's a good amount of distance between the cue ball and the object ball. Try a draw shot where the object ball is near a corner pocket, and your cue ball is near the diagonally-opposite corner pocket. Try to draw the cue ball back towards you, into the corner pocket underneath you. With a jacked-up cue? Good luck -- the draw will very likely "burn off" before the cue ball even arrives at the object ball. And even if you manage to get some draw to stay with the cue ball over that long distance, "good luck" maintaining any semblance of accuracy in having it draw straight back towards you to scratch in that diagonally-opposite corner pocket. That's the "spin/speed ratio" thing again -- the level cue gives you the speed and the accuracy over longer distances. Jacked-up draw shots are good only when the cue ball and the object ball are very close to each other, where the speed part of the "spin/speed ratio" is less required.
Hope that helps(?),
-Sean
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Significant spin is lost during the initial bounce off the cloth. FYI, for more information about draw shot cue-elevation effects, see my July '09 Billiards Digest article. It explains and illustrates things fairly well, IMO.
I call this "quick draw." For more information, including articles and video demonstrations, with examples, see my quick draw resource page.
Enjoy,
Dave
There are two kinds of "more" with draw: greater total draw distance and steeper draw angle.
A level cue produces greater total draw distance (and more accuracy and more OB movement) and jacked up produces steeper draw angle (and less accuracy and less OB movement).
pj
chgo
Got it. Thanks for the reply.
I just went down and tried the draw shot you mentioned and I didn't fair too well. I only made the shot 7 out of 10 times. I only drew it back into the pocket 2 out of 10. I definitely need to work on that one. It's 1 diamond out of my comfort zone. If I move the cue ball out of the kitchen 1 diamond I do much better.
Great. Thanks a lot. Another shot I need to work on. I'll add it to my growing list.
* I didn't bother trying to shoot that one with a jacked up cue. I'll take your word for it.
Okay - thanks.
That was one I hadn't thought about in a while but I had it in the back of my mind. I'm glad I now have my facts straight so I don't give someone some bad info somewhere down the line.
The most important things with draw are the smooth repeatable stroke and the cue tip contact point. You get both of these with good fundamentals and practice. Forget about all the "raise-the-butt-of-the-cue" tips. They may seem to help but they just make the draw shot much more difficult and inaccurate than it needs to be.
Try not pulling back your cue stick too much when shooting normal distance draw shots. When I take up my warm-up strokes, I switch my view back and forth from the CB to the OB, but I am always careful not to pull my cue too far backwards and lose eye contact with the ferrule. I have much better control on the contact point of my tip with the CB that way. Watch Bustamante's stroke; it is exactly the opposite of what I am describing. Watch Hohmann's storke: >>link<<. Notice that he uses much "smaller" warm up strokes. He never pulls back his cue too much, that way he has more control on where his cue tip will contact the CB. Try doing this yourself. You may think that you get more action on the CB if you use a longer, stroke. It looks nice for sure, but it can make you inaccurate. (aim-wise and cuetip-CB-contact-point wise) Thorsten uses a shorter stroke with a more rapid acceleration and he sure can play. I think Archer uses a shorter stroke as well. Just remember that you must always accelerate smoothly, otherwise you are just punching the CB. Try the short stroke thing and concentrate on the ferrule and the contact point on the CB more. You WILL draw the CB better than before.
Try not pulling back your cue stick too much when shooting normal distance draw shots. When I take up my warm-up strokes, I switch my view back and forth from the CB to the OB, but I am always careful not to pull my cue too far backwards and lose eye contact with the ferrule. I have much better control on the contact point of my tip with the CB that way. Watch Bustamante's stroke; it is exactly the opposite of what I am describing. Watch Hohmann's storke: >>link<<. Notice that he uses much "smaller" warm up strokes. He never pulls back his cue too much, that way he has more control on where his cue tip will contact the CB. Try doing this yourself. You may think that you get more action on the CB if you use a longer, stroke. It looks nice for sure, but it can make you inaccurate. (aim-wise and cuetip-CB-contact-point wise) Thorsten uses a shorter stroke with a more rapid acceleration and he sure can play. I think Archer uses a shorter stroke as well. Just remember that you must always accelerate smoothly, otherwise you are just punching the CB. Try the short stroke thing and concentrate on the ferrule and the contact point on the CB more. You WILL draw the CB better than before.
Keep your weight slightly forward (60/40). It's awfully hard to draw if you fall back on the shot.