The Draw Shot

whitewolf said:
You hit below center with a slightly downward angle. Don't believe these low and level instructors, especially if you hate miscueing.
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I like all of your advice except this.

Hitting downward doesn't add much to the draw action but does cause missed shots from swerve (masse from offcenter hits). And on the other hand, keeping your cue as level as possible doesn't increase miscues.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to hit the cue ball with a perfectly level cue because it has to clear the rail, but there's no reason to add to the problem.

pj
chgo
 
cuetechasaurus...I agree, but let me explain. Technically, the shot ends as soon as the tip strikes the CB. All you have to do is "penetrate" the surface of the CB and the shot is over (because the ball is gone in 1/1000th of a second after contact). However...it's difficult, if not impossible, to stop your cuestick at the CB, at different speeds and tip elevations, accurately and repeatably, on demand, under pressure, in one try. That said, FINISHING your stroke naturally (letting your body stop the forward momentum of the stick...as opposed to arbitrarily clenching the cue, with strength and power, to make it stop wherever) is what creates good action. If you finish your natural swing, you will get "followthrough". How much doesn't matter, as long as it's related to how your arm works. Mine, btw, is 6 1/2 inches, because that's how MY arm works with my body. Everybody is different, and body style or height doesn't matter. Let the cue do the work, and you will draw the rock like MAGIC! We teach a Finish...not a followthrough!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

cuetechasaurus said:
If you are talking about exaggerated follow thru being pointless, I agree. But if you are talking about follow thru itself, IMO it's absolutely paramount to a good stroke!
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Ray...The first sentence is correct...the second is not. The more you elevate the back end of the cue, the more difficult it is to draw the CB easily. Low, (reasonably) level, and "loose" cradle, still rule the draw stroke. As Pat said, you can't shoot without ANY cue elevation (becaue of the rail)...it's just slight. Miscues happen because of a poor stroke, not because you aimed wrong. Please do not disparage good instruction, just because you don't know any better (and you should, because I showed you this many years ago). :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

whitewolf said:
You hit below center with a slightly downward angle. Don't believe these low and level instructors, especially if you hate miscueing. Follow through as you would with any other shot - this is VERY important.

WW
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Scott Lee said:
cuetechasaurus...I agree, but let me explain. Technically, the shot ends as soon as the tip strikes the CB. All you have to do is "penetrate" the surface of the CB and the shot is over (because the ball is gone in 1/1000th of a second after contact). However...it's difficult, if not impossible, to stop your cuestick at the CB, at different speeds and tip elevations, accurately and repeatably, on demand, under pressure, in one try. That said, FINISHING your stroke naturally (letting your body stop the forward momentum of the stick...as opposed to arbitrarily clenching the cue, with strength and power, to make it stop wherever) is what creates good action. If you finish your natural swing, you will get "followthrough". How much doesn't matter, as long as it's related to how your arm works. Mine, btw, is 6 1/2 inches, because that's how MY arm works with my body. Everybody is different, and body style or height doesn't matter. Let the cue do the work, and you will draw the rock like MAGIC! We teach a Finish...not a followthrough!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, you read my mind, the only difference being you said it much more intelligently than I would have! :)
 
Scott Lee said:
cuetechasaurus...I agree, but let me explain. Technically, the shot ends as soon as the tip strikes the CB. All you have to do is "penetrate" the surface of the CB and the shot is over (because the ball is gone in 1/1000th of a second after contact). However...it's difficult, if not impossible, to stop your cuestick at the CB, at different speeds and tip elevations, accurately and repeatably, on demand, under pressure, in one try. That said, FINISHING your stroke naturally (letting your body stop the forward momentum of the stick...as opposed to arbitrarily clenching the cue, with strength and power, to make it stop wherever) is what creates good action. If you finish your natural swing, you will get "followthrough". How much doesn't matter, as long as it's related to how your arm works. Mine, btw, is 6 1/2 inches, because that's how MY arm works with my body. Everybody is different, and body style or height doesn't matter. Let the cue do the work, and you will draw the rock like MAGIC! We teach a Finish...not a followthrough!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

This is so wrong in alot of ways.

Yo can not penetrate the surface of the CB. The surface is solid. The only way to penetrate it would be to use a drill.

If you don't follow through, you do not get spin nor real accurate speed control. I watch alot of 3 cushion and there is no way without follow through they can do the stuff they do.

And the stroke is not a swing but a push from a cocked position.

The stroke is like using a bow on a violin, not a baseball bat or a golf club that you swing. You have to use the bow in a variety of ways to produce the sound you want. Same with your stroke.

I am so glad I have never gotten a lesson, especially from a few of the "instructors" on here.

Use your 6 1/2 follow through on this shot:
 
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Are you saying that if I did not follow through I still would have done these draw shots?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQqYpavtW4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uj_4Dmcjzg
http://www.youtube.com/user/ducman954#p/u/5/ken_27cQxps

All draw, all different strokes.

Oh little tip about draw, there is no need to hit more than 3/4, if that much, tip below center and if you do raise your butt up some, you won't miscue as much because the angle of attack of the cue is greater than if the butt was lower. The lower the angle of attack the greater the chance of going under the CB causing a miscue.

It is a myth that the cue has to be level in order to get good draw.

You guys need to watch some 3 cushion players.

Oh, my stun shots have no follow through, so I don't see how a 6 1/2" follow through can get you a stun shot when the CB is 2 inches from the OB. Unless you do not always use the same amount of follow through.
 
I think what you may be missing is ensuring that your stroke is accelerating (speeding up) right up until the tip hits the cue ball...that doesn't mean you hit it hard or faster, just quicker than it started. If your cue is slowing down or even when it hits the cue ball, you get a stop shot or drift forward...or at best you get a weak draw. Even when stroking a light close in draw shot, you need to keep the speed of the stroke going (even if it's slower than usual). Think of it in those terms and I'll bet you'll do better. it's a critical part of the mechanics of the shot.
 
Scott Lee said:
Ray...The first sentence is correct...the second is not. The more you elevate the back end of the cue, the more difficult it is to draw the CB easily. Low, (reasonably) level, and "loose" cradle, still rule the draw stroke. As Pat said, you can't shoot without ANY cue elevation (becaue of the rail)...it's just slight. Miscues happen because of a poor stroke, not because you aimed wrong. Please do not disparage good instruction, just because you don't know any better (and you should, because I showed you this many years ago). :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Tell that to Mike Sigel. He is the one who taught me this. I didn't suggest jacking up the butt of your cue, did I? And yes, I remember, you are the one who taught me to look at the cue ball while shooting LOL. I listen to good instruction and not to piss poor instructors.

Maybe you don't like this method because Fast Larry also advises it :grin:. Or, like I have always said, you are too stubborn to learn anything. FL can draw the ball better than you ever dreamed of, and with more consistency.

You will never learn Scott. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, heh?
 
duckie said:
I am so glad I have never gotten a lesson, especially from a few of the "instructors" on here.
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duckie said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQqYpavtW4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uj_4Dmcjzg
Click to expand...

Apparently you also believe it's a myth that you should stay down while you shoot because on BOTH shots your whole body is moving before you even contact the cue ball. IMO you're the last person that should be giving advice to anyone. You would have done well to get some instruction, but I guess people are their own worst enemies in this game.
 
The progressive drills are great. A smooth stroke is the key. It is the same as a good follow stroke, just lower on the ball. Billiards digest drill page, Dr Dave's site and the Mr Jewit's San Francisco billiards site are great resources. Draw is overused, but being able to do it right most of the time is a big help. I do it right once in a while. Good Luck, John
 
duckie:
Oh little tip about draw, there is no need to hit more than 3/4, if that much, tip below center and if you do raise your butt up some, you won't miscue as much because the angle of attack of the cue is greater than if the butt was lower. The lower the angle of attack the greater the chance of going under the CB causing a miscue.
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All of this is wrong.

pj
chgo
 
Why all the hate and vitriol in this thread, we are talking about a simple draw stroke. This is the internet I am sure everyone posting a reply is a genius and a closet champion. I have to say I disagree with the haters and agree with the people giving the positive posts that make sense.

Anpother thought for the original poster, try to be as level as possible with your cue, you want the tip low not the butt high, to do this work with your bridge lower it as low as possible if you still want the tip lower do not elevate the butt excessibly rather pull your bridge back from the cue ball.

A tip I learned from Stan Shuffet is if you can put a chalk cube under your stick as it crosses the rail you can be lower with the butt. Of course during games with other balls etc there is reason to raise the butt you will make more balls if you can avoid jacking up.


A very level cue is seen constantly in all cueing positons when pool is played at the highest level. Very few champions play with the butt up in the air it is down by the rail and the reasults of their play show the reason why "The cue ball rolls straighter"

Scott Lee is correct the shot is over as far as the cue ball is concerned after it leaves the tip. However most all of the positive posters will tell you to follow through to a consistent follow through length (Scott Lee as well) that is appropriate to your standard stroke. It is important when you train to shoot one shot over and over paying attention to the result of the shot and your tip location after the shot. Do not just jerk the cue back and jump up there is alot to be learned and gained by looking at your tip after the stroke. There is time even during most draw strokes.

If you want to get better than you are right now get a good lesson from a real instructor there are many good ones some I would reccomend include Scott Lee, Stan Shuffett, Mark Wilson, Jerry Brieseth. This list is by no means complete if you live close to Grand Rapids I am sure Neil who posts here would be good. Blackjack lives in TX he is good too. Most of the posters who hate the instructors would probably not be the best people to go to for a lesson, without doubt some of them can play quite well maybe better than some of these instructors however can they help you play better in a short time. The best instructors can give you the help you need to make a change in short order and a proccess to continue to improve. I appreciate the knwledge shared by these professionals.

Thanks

Dana in Indy
 
whitewolf said:
You hit below center with a slightly downward angle. Don't believe these low and level instructors, especially if you hate miscueing. Follow through as you would with any other shot - this is VERY important.

I like the progressive drills also.

The key, IMHO, of learning to draw consistently, is to IMAGINE the spin on the cueball after it has made contact. Once you can visualize that, drawing is a piece of cake compared to your old ways.

Good luck. WW
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How much is "slightly"? I want to make sure I jack the butt of my cue up just right.
randyg
 
duckie said:
This is so wrong in alot of ways.

Yo can not penetrate the surface of the CB. The surface is solid. The only way to penetrate it would be to use a drill.

If you don't follow through, you do not get spin nor real accurate speed control. I watch alot of 3 cushion and there is no way without follow through they can do the stuff they do.

And the stroke is not a swing but a push from a cocked position.

The stroke is like using a bow on a violin, not a baseball bat or a golf club that you swing. You have to use the bow in a variety of ways to produce the sound you want. Same with your stroke.

I am so glad I have never gotten a lesson, especially from a few of the "instructors" on here.

Use your 6 1/2 follow through on this shot:
Click to expand...



Duckie: I want to believe you BUT Physics tells me different.
Sorry, just ain't so.
randyg
 
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