OB2 - Pictures

[Zerius]

I have received the replacement OB Classic shaft (12.5mm custom) and it plays amazing with the Kamui Soft tip.

I'm not sure if it is the tip or the shaft but I am able to control english and cue ball placement with ease. Pocketing balls do seem easier than with my previous cue (might just be the balance).

I will post pictures of the shaft soon, however there is still an issue with the quality of the shaft that I have concerns about, and I will send an email to OB to inquire about it.

(Is it okay for me to post pictures of the shaft now? I'd like to do this when I get home)

EDIT:

I really like the fact that the joint fits perfectly for a Uniloc Radial which is what I told them I had. Even the predator shaft that came with my cue wasn't tailored specifically for Uniloc Radial, I deduced this based on the fact that my Josswest Radial joint protectors work for the predator but not the OB.

 

[Zerius]

doubleposted

 

[Zerius]

 

[GoldCrown]

Do you feel the gap. Is it obvious if you rub your fingernail over it?

 

["CaliRed".]

a couple of things....

1st. You need to learn how to post pictures. I would post the pics to be no more then 1024 wide. Otherwise it makes a mess of the page. If you don't know how to resize a pic, go here for a online way of doing it http://www.picresize.com/

2nd. I think it would have been more appropriate to speak to OB about your issue before posting a thread. Threads such as these, can be taken all kinds of ways, no matter what your intentions were. One of the ways, is always going to be a negative way. So speak to the company first, see how their going to handle your situation, give them a chance first.

3rd. OB Cues is a fantastic company that has excellent customer service and go out of their way to make things right for their customers. There are few companies that do this anymore.

I felt strongly enough about their company and my interactions with them, that I wrote a thread to bring it to people's attention.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=227040

At this point, why don't you just let it fade away and call it good. I won't respond to it again to bring it back up to the 1st page again.

 

[Zerius]

a couple of things....

1st. You need to learn how to post pictures. I would post the pics to be no more then 1024 wide. Otherwise it makes a mess of the page. If you don't know how to resize a pic, go here for a online way of doing it http://www.picresize.com/

2nd. I think it would have been more appropriate to speak to OB about your issue before posting a thread. Threads such as these, can be taken all kinds of ways, no matter what your intentions were. One of the ways, is always going to be a negative way. So speak to the company first, see how their going to handle your situation, give them a chance first.

3rd. OB Cues is a fantastic company that has excellent customer service and go out of their way to make things right for their customers. There are few companies that do this anymore.

I felt strongly enough about their company and my interactions with them, that I wrote a thread to bring it to people's attention.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=227040

At this point, why don't you just let it fade away and call it good. I won't respond to it again to bring it back up to the 1st page again.

Before you post in a thread you know nothing about. Please read it first. I am not posting my opinions, these are facts. I post the positive, and negative, and it is just to let people know how my journey is going.

Edit: The pictures are resized for 19inch monitor via imageshack.us, which I feel is very reasonable for today's standards. Thanks for your attempt at helping.
Edit 2: So what you are saying, is that it is only acceptable to post positive experiences on this forum and anything that can be taken negatively (although not negative is frowned upon? Maybe you need to review your constitutional rights and move to a country where the ideology fits yours.

 

[Zerius]

Do you feel the gap. Is it obvious if you rub your fingernail over it?

I can feel the gap, but this time it is more than halfway down the shaft that I wouldn't likely feel it with regular stroke shots (taper is already 14.5mm when it starts to open and 17.33mm when it starts to close).

I don't know if it affects playability, I'm going to guess no since this shaft/tip combo plays amazing as it is now. (Just a little annoying knowing it's there).

The solid core of the OB Classic feels great, with the fat shaft that I had from predator before I felt a vibration in the shaft that seemed to resonate through the cue, but with the OBC it is a very solid shaft and feels pretty much like a one-piece as soon as I screw it on. The joint also fits very well. The weight of the shaft is 4.0 oz which is spot on for me, and I am absolutely confident potting balls with this.

 

["CaliRed".]

Before you post in a thread you know nothing about. Please read it first. I am not posting my opinions, these are facts. I post the positive, and negative, and it is just to let people know how my journey is going.

I know all about this thread having read the entire thing. I stated that it would be best if you FIRST spoke to the company about your issue. Then go from there. That's not so hard to understand is it? It's called constructive critisism. You're going to do whatever you want to do. All I'm trying to do is give you something to think about.. but you have to be able to do that in order to get anything out of it.

Edit: The pictures are resized for 19inch monitor via imageshack.us, which I feel is very reasonable for today's standards. Thanks for your attempt at helping.

Well, that's great that you resized them assuming everyone has 1280 x 1024 or greater resolution. But you fail to take into account the sidebar and the theme of the forum. What do you think happens if you make a picture 1280 pixels wide and it's been shown in a 1000 pixel area? I would hope you would come to the same conclusion as I do... 1/4 th of it is scrolling off the screen to the right.

2: So what you are saying, is that it is only acceptable to post positive experiences on this forum and anything that can be taken negatively (although not negative is frowned upon? Maybe you need to review your constitutional rights and move to a country where the ideology fits yours.

If you read my post, you will see nowhere does it say anything about only posting positive experiences. I'm not going to retype it, just go back and read it first.

I believe that was some advice you gave to me

Please read it first

You're welcome

 

[Zerius]

I know all about this thread having read the entire thing.

I'm glad the first line you chose was this.

 

[TATE]

Looks to me like a glue line caused from inconsistent pressure when the wood was being laminated. The glue fills the gap but is different in appearance than the wood. Sometimes when wood is being stacked and laminated, the glue is trapped and forms a "glue bubble" that resists being squeezed out. Certain glues also expand when drying and are not suitable for laminating. Glue lines and air gaps are some of the banes of laminating sheets of thin wood and a variety of techniques for clamping, like vacuum bags, have been used.

The reason why you see an indentation on the surface is because the glue continues to cure and shrink after the shaft is turned. If you want to get rid of the indentation, fil the gap with super glue. After it dries completely, sand it flat with fine sandpaper.

This is a cosmetic thing in my opinion. Today's glues are usually stronger than the wood they hold together.

Chris

 

[manwon]

Now we are back to the shaft, is this the new shaft that they were going to send you or is this the original shaft you had the problem with?

Thanks

 

[TATE]

Now we are back to the shaft, is this the new shaft that they were going to send you or is this the original shaft you had the problem with?

Thanks

Craig -it's the new shaft. There's a glue line in it but he likes the way it plays.

Chris

 

[Zerius]

Now we are back to the shaft, is this the new shaft that they were going to send you or is this the original shaft you had the problem with?

Thanks

Yes, it's the original shaft I had my problems with. I had these pictures to clearly show the problem all along, but I decided to hold them back so I can release them at a later date. Actually, I never sent in my original shaft, it's been with my the whole time. From time to time I like to take pictures of it and post it online.

It is the replacement, which I have played 6 racks with, and the pictures of the "line" taken BEFORE i took this shaft to the pool hall.

It is still a peculiar "line" because I have never seen this before on any of my predator shafts (in fact, I have trouble discerning the different laminate splices on predators)

@TATE: What are the wood-colored particles between the clear glue that I see under enlargement?

 

[TATE]

What are the wood-colored particles between the clear glue that I see under enlargement?

I don't know what kind of adhesives are used, but some types are prone to trapping air.

I believe what you are seeing are all part of the same problem. The round light colored circled are glue beads that were trapped, and the dark specks air pinholes. It's possible too much glue was used so it was trapped and not squeezed out in the lamination process. Also, sometimes brown glue is used. I'm not sure that clear glue is used here.

Chris

 

[ShootingArts]

Ob

I don't know what kind of adhesives are used, but some types are prone to trapping air.

I believe what you are seeing are all part of the same problem. The round light colored circled are glue beads that were trapped, and the dark specks air pinholes. It's possible too much glue was used so it was trapped and not squeezed out in the lamination process.

Chris

Chris,

This being an OB cue I strongly suspect that the glue line is at one of the places where a convex and concave curve join together. Unlike the first images that looked like it was possibly a dry joint in my opinion that might lack adequate bonding, this looks like more of a cosmetic issue. Probably time to put away the optical comparator and play pool.

I notice that the Silver Ginacue http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=192545 valued at over $300,000 would fair very poorly if it was zoomed to 24x or so and given the scrutiny cues and shafts are given today. Had somebody shipped it new today the forum members would advise to reject it or demand a discount!

At this point I think it is time to send the shaft back and ask for a refund or play with it. If he isn't satisfied with a shaft that plays well but won't stand up under microscopic examination he probably isn't going to be happy with the manufacturing process OB uses.

Hu

 

[Zerius]

Chris,

This being an OB cue I strongly suspect that the glue line is at one of the places where a convex and concave curve join together. Unlike the first images that looked like it was possibly a dry joint in my opinion that might lack adequate bonding, this looks like more of a cosmetic issue. Probably time to put away the optical comparator and play pool.

I notice that the Silver Ginacue http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=192545 valued at over $300,000 would fair very poorly if it was zoomed to 24x or so and given the scrutiny cues and shafts are given today. Had somebody shipped it new today the forum members would advise to reject it or demand a discount!

At this point I think it is time to send the shaft back and ask for a refund or play with it. If he isn't satisfied with a shaft that plays well but won't stand up under microscopic examination he probably isn't going to be happy with the manufacturing process OB uses.

Hu

So you're saying I shouldn't have posted the pictures in the first place? What if the shaft had been flawless and I posted the pictures? Would you be offended in the same manner?

The line can be seen quite clearly with the naked eye. The only reason I took the extra step to look at it under a stronger magnifier was for the ass hats who can't tell the difference between a scratch and a defect.

Hu, would you enjoy playing with the cuetec SST shafts where they use as much glue as wood? Certainly it doesn't make a difference for you when something advertised as being radially consistent has a larger separation in one direction.

No question marks pop up in your head when you send in a shaft for repair or replacement and the same issue comes back to you? If this is something that is common then don't people deserve to know this before they order a product? Why are you trying to bury facts when they are presented so clearly before you?

edit: I have already contacted OB regarding the replacement shaft, they are in Vegas right now so I will give them as long as they need to get back to me. If they tell me it is an known issue that they can't guarantee every shaft will come out without one line then I won't pursue it any further, why waste resources? But if they tell me that it is in fact an oddity then I may send the shaft back.

Honestly, I don't expect this to happen when I sent my original in with the same issue. I also don't build shafts so I wouldn't understand the difficulties in eliminating the issue. Maybe I expect too much to not have a glue line down my shaft, but since predator can do it, why not OB?

I'm not hiding anything when I post, if you would like to request further clarification I will provide it. Just don't try to freaking guilt me when there is nothing I have done wrong. I didn't cut open this shaft and then fill it with superglue, IT CAME TO ME LIKE THIS! Why are you so offended?

 

[ShootingArts]

suggestion

I suggest you read my first post in this thread and then reread my last one without putting tone in it that wasn't there. You are acting like a jackass now when I told you something quite seriously that you seem too dense to understand. OB does not use the same manufacturing process as predator. Laminating curved surfaces together is considerably different than laminating flat surfaces together. You are looking at the lamination of a Predator shaft at 90 degrees, end on. The joints where the bundles of laminates join together on an OB are cut through at a much shallower angle when the shaft is profiled. This means that if the glue lines were exactly the same thickness where the bundles are joined the line would appear much thicker on an OB and what would appear as a tiny blemish on a Predator will look multiple times larger on an OB. The OB is made up of flat and radial laminates, the Predator of pie shaped laminates with flat sides only. There are inherent differences in manufacture you can't seem to comprehend. The real issue here is very likely to be razor thin wood tearing away over the glue you are looking at much like points on a full splice are sometimes "wiped off". It is the nature of wood to come apart when shaved very thinly across the grain. If you aren't satisfied with the OB manufacturing process get a refund and buy something else. I said that not to be an ass but quite sincerely. Sometimes it is better for both the customer and the builder to move on.

Assuming you can read, comprehend, and actually digest what I wrote above which I am now skeptical of I'll now give an example of not being satisfied with a manufacturing process. I bought so many rifle barrel blanks from one of the best custom barrel makers in the world that I got a volume discount. He started offering completely finished barrels for some rifles, farming out the finish work. Naturally these finished barrels were pretty pricey since they were built from world class blanks. When I received the barrel for my 10-22 the machine work done to complete the blank was average at best. In my opinion a world class blank was totally wasted with indifferent work to finish it, about like sending an OB blank to a cue butcher. The barrel maker contacted me after I sent the barrel back and we agreed that I simply wasn't going to be happy with the manufacturing process of the finished barrels. He refunded my money and I bought a production quality barrel. It wasn't drilled, rifled, and lapped with the same level of skill as the custom barrel but the final machine work was as good or better than the chambering and crowning work done on the custom blank. Barrels like shafts are only as good as the weakest link.

At this point you say the new shaft plays great and we all know you got a great deal on it since it was upgraded at no charge. Quite seriously, it is time to play pool with it or send it back and get a refund.

Any questions about posting pictures or posting threads on AZB were addressed in my first post in support of you. Now aside from being a jackass in your post to me I think you are being silly compariing the OB to the Predator over and over. If you want a Predator, buy a Predator. I have some pictures of a Predator that would curl your hair! However the crap doesn't show on the outside without magnification and knowing what to look for. My second best advice to you is to buy a wooden shaft. My very best advice is to buy an aluminum or fiberglass covered shaft and play with it. For some people ignorance is bliss.

I hope that we understand eadh other better now that I have stooped to your level!

Hu

So you're saying I shouldn't have posted the pictures in the first place? What if the shaft had been flawless and I posted the pictures? Would you be offended in the same manner?

The line can be seen quite clearly with the naked eye. The only reason I took the extra step to look at it under a stronger magnifier was for the ass hats who can't tell the difference between a scratch and a defect.

Hu, would you enjoy playing with the cuetec SST shafts where they use as much glue as wood? Certainly it doesn't make a difference for you when something advertised as being radially consistent has a larger separation in one direction.

No question marks pop up in your head when you send in a shaft for repair or replacement and the same issue comes back to you? If this is something that is common then don't people deserve to know this before they order a product? Why are you trying to bury facts when they are presented so clearly before you?

edit: I have already contacted OB regarding the replacement shaft, they are in Vegas right now so I will give them as long as they need to get back to me. If they tell me it is an known issue that they can't guarantee every shaft will come out without one line then I won't pursue it any further, why waste resources? But if they tell me that it is in fact an oddity then I may send the shaft back.

Honestly, I don't expect this to happen when I sent my original in with the same issue. I also don't build shafts so I wouldn't understand the difficulties in eliminating the issue. Maybe I expect too much to not have a glue line down my shaft, but since predator can do it, why not OB?

I'm not hiding anything when I post, if you would like to request further clarification I will provide it. Just don't try to freaking guilt me when there is nothing I have done wrong. I didn't cut open this shaft and then fill it with superglue, IT CAME TO ME LIKE THIS! Why are you so offended?

 

[TATE]

Zerius,

I have said in my previous reviews that OB shafts are cosmetically quite a bit different than others. They are not for people who want a clean bleached white shaft.

The beauty of this shaft is how solid it plays. I don't know how good you play, but if you are a pretty good player and if you think you're playing good with it now, give it 3 or 4 months. You will gain confidence and accuracy to a surprising degree if you allow yourself to fully adapt.

I set one of my friends up with 2 OB Classics after I tried his other shaft and realized it was unreliable. He wanted to ditch the OB's after a week but I convinced him to stick with it for at least a month. In a few months his game improved and now he cashes and wins at open tournaments.

The cosmetic blemish aside, if you find a shaft that plays good for you - what's that worth compared to a shaft that looks good and plays bad. The beauty is in the performance. I wouldn't give it up myself as long as the shaft is sound.

Chris

 

[Zerius]

I suggest you read my first post in this thread and then reread my last one without putting tone in it that wasn't there. You are acting like a jackass now when I told you something quite seriously that you seem too dense to understand. OB does not use the same manufacturing process as predator. Laminating curved surfaces together is considerably different than laminating flat surfaces together. You are looking at the lamination of a Predator shaft at 90 degrees, end on. The joints where the bundles of laminates join together on an OB are cut through at a much shallower angle when the shaft is profiled. This means that if the glue lines were exactly the same thickness where the bundles are joined the line would appear much thicker on an OB and what would appear as a tiny blemish on a Predator will look multiple times larger on an OB. The OB is made up of flat and radial laminates, the Predator of pie shaped laminates with flat sides only. There are inherent differences in manufacture you can't seem to comprehend. The real issue here is very likely to be razor thin wood tearing away over the glue you are looking at much like points on a full splice are sometimes "wiped off". It is the nature of wood to come apart when shaved very thinly across the grain. If you aren't satisfied with the OB manufacturing process get a refund and buy something else. I said that not to be an ass but quite sincerely. Sometimes it is better for both the customer and the builder to move on.

Assuming you can read, comprehend, and actually digest what I wrote above which I am now skeptical of I'll now give an example of not being satisfied with a manufacturing process. I bought so many rifle barrel blanks from one of the best custom barrel makers in the world that I got a volume discount. He started offering completely finished barrels for some rifles, farming out the finish work. Naturally these finished barrels were pretty pricey since they were built from world class blanks. When I received the barrel for my 10-22 the machine work done to complete the blank was average at best. In my opinion a world class blank was totally wasted with indifferent work to finish it, about like sending an OB blank to a cue butcher. The barrel maker contacted me after I sent the barrel back and we agreed that I simply wasn't going to be happy with the manufacturing process of the finished barrels. He refunded my money and I bought a production quality barrel. It wasn't drilled, rifled, and lapped with the same level of skill as the custom barrel but the final machine work was as good or better than the chambering and crowning work done on the custom blank. Barrels like shafts are only as good as the weakest link.

At this point you say the new shaft plays great and we all know you got a great deal on it since it was upgraded at no charge. Quite seriously, it is time to play pool with it or send it back and get a refund.

Any questions about posting pictures or posting threads on AZB were addressed in my first post in support of you. Now aside from being a jackass in your post to me I think you are being silly compariing the OB to the Predator over and over. If you want a Predator, buy a Predator. I have some pictures of a Predator that would curl your hair! However the crap doesn't show on the outside without magnification and knowing what to look for. My second best advice to you is to buy a wooden shaft. My very best advice is to buy an aluminum or fiberglass covered shaft and play with it. For some people ignorance is bliss.

I hope that we understand eadh other better now that I have stooped to your level!

Hu

Thank you, your explanation makes sense and I can accept that. I believe you are right that one of the razor thing pieces tore off and left that glue line. Thank you for taking the time to explain this for me.

@TATE: Thank you for your objective responses. I will be keeping this shaft