World Junior Tournament

[Scott Lee]

I was surprised and dismayed to learn that not ONE of the top 8 finishers in the just-completed World Junior tournament in Poland was an American...or even North American! I had fully expected to see at least one USA kid in the top 8. Either the competition was surreal, or maybe our young players were not up to the task. I hope they feel like they played well, regardless of the outcome. Oh well, better luck next year.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[The8reader]

if only they would teach the game of pool in school like the japanees and well all the asian cultures. they make it into a p.e. even classes with levels. what do our kids have. a dad that takes them to a pool hall once a week, if they are lucky enough to have a pool hall. when i was growing up all i had was my mom the bar maid and me at my day care the pool table.. i think it would be a great thing for kids to have pool and ping pong for a class to take and learn. they are great sports that take alot of control and concentration..

and i see you used to be from bozmen, im from mt as well or used to be.. and there are def no pool halls there anymore..

 

[JAM]

I was surprised and dismayed to learn that not ONE of the top 8 finishers in the just-completed World Junior tournament in Poland was an American...or even North American! I had fully expected to see at least one USA kid in the top 8. Either the competition was surreal, or maybe our young players were not up to the task. I hope they feel like they played well, regardless of the outcome. Oh well, better luck next year.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Gee, I wonder where our North American representative was? Aren't they supposed to inform American youth of a WPA event? :angry:

 

[TannerPruess]

JAM - There were American players there. :smile:

Scott - I would rather your post be more positive to the American youth who did bust their butts to make it there and compete. It is a world tournament and that comes with no guarantee that it will be an easy road for any nationality. I am sure a few of them will be willing to try you a few racks... but I don't think you will "be up for the task" of that. :thumbup:

 

[JAM]

JAM - There were American players there. :smile:

Scott - I would rather your post be more positive to the American youth who did bust their butts to make it there and compete. It is a world tournament and that comes with no guarantee that it will be an easy road for any nationality. I am sure a few of them will be willing to try you a few racks... but I don't think you will "be up for the task" of that. :thumbup:

Thank you, Mr. Tanner. This is good to know. Whew! I feel much better now about that tournament. Truthfully, there wasn't much press about it before it happened, which may be why not many people knew what was going on. We need a few more young folks like yourself involved in these tournaments.

Don't be a stranger on this forum. I miss reading your posts, Mr. T Grande! :smile:

 

[Scott Lee]

Tanner...Actually it was positive. I merely pointed out that I was disappointed that no American finished well. Are you telling me you're not disappointed? You did read that I "hoped they felt that they played well, regardless of the outcome", didn't you? It's one thing to play well, and simply get beat by someone who played better...vs. beating yourself, when you had chances to win. Two different things. Your "you might not like it playing them some" comment is immature. I'd love to play some with any of them. They might have an opportunity to learn some things that would have helped them in Poland...or perhaps in a future event. A few years ago I was in Sacramento at Hard Times working some players there. A very well known local player offered to pay for some training with me for Austin Murphy. I had watched him play, and saw a few things that he could improve upon, and so the benefactor approached his father. The dad thought it was a great opportunity, but deferred to Austin for a decision. His attitude was that he already knew it all, and so he declined. The benefactor and I could only shake our heads. This was a couple of months prior to Austin attending the World Junior tournament, where he unfortunately, for reasons known only to him, apparently did not play well.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott - I would rather your post be more positive to the American youth who did bust their butts to make it there and compete. It is a world tournament and that comes with no guarantee that it will be an easy road for any nationality. I am sure a few of them will be willing to try you a few racks... but I don't think you will "be up for the task" of that. :thumbup:

 

[genomachino]

Sometimes the moment can swallow you up especially if your very young. The traveling and all the houpla can really effect ones focus.

This is a huge opportunity for these young guns to learn how tough it can be. To try to stay in the moment and not be distracted.

This is the biggest stage ever for all these boys.

I can see them working harder than ever to meet their goals.

good job guys. Great learning experience.

Just remember and use what you learned for every tournament from here on out.

Wish i could have been there to watch.

 

[saddlebow]

We were there

We are in the airport in Warsaw waiting to fly home after a long week. It's 6 am. There were six american kids here who played ther hearts out, and ran into the professional level Euro machine supported by the EBPF. You should note that the entire final 8 was all euro; not one kid from Japan, China, North or South America, the Philipines, or the US. Doesn't that tell you something? The reality is that the level of support and training for the europeans is a model for the rest of the world. Team Euro arrives with coaches, equipment support, training camps for weeks before the event, and year around training and organized competition. They are focused, as individual national teams and as team euro, on one thing: total dominance. The American kids arrived with their cues and jet lag. They got at most a couple of hours on the tables before the matches started. The Polish girl who won qualified for the tournament as a walk on the day before it started, and she went through the field undefeated. The boy's side finalists were both polish kids. One of the polish organizers said to me "The US has NASA and can put a man on the moon. Why can't you organize support for junior pool?" It's a good question, isn't it?
All that said, we have the talent and desire, and just need to bring some focus and energy to staying competitive as the europeans raise the bar again and again. Our kids, with the same level of support that the Euros have, can play with any other kids in the world. Before you criticize what our kids accomplished, take a look at how much time and energy you spent helping them get to where they did, and ask yourself, why can't we do a better job supporting our kids in international play?

 

[TannerPruess]

I call 'em like I see 'em! :thumbup: Go USA!

And yes, I am very immature.

 

[JAM]

We are in the airport in Warsaw waiting to fly home after a long week. It's 6 am. There were six american kids here who played ther hearts out, and ran into the professional level Euro machine supported by the EBPF. You should note that the entire final 8 was all euro; not one kid from Japan, China, North or South America, the Philipines, or the US. Doesn't that tell you something? The reality is that the level of support and training for the europeans is a model for the rest of the world. Team Euro arrives with coaches, equipment support, training camps for weeks before the event, and year around training and organized competition. They are focused, as individual national teams and as team euro, on one thing: total dominance. The American kids arrived with their cues and jet lag. They got at most a couple of hours on the tables before the matches started. The Polish girl who won qualified for the tournament as a walk on the day before it started, and she went through the field undefeated. The boy's side finalists were both polish kids. One of the polish organizers said to me "The US has NASA and can put a man on the moon. Why can't you organize support for junior pool?" It's a good question, isn't it?
All that said, we have the talent and desire, and just need to bring some focus and energy to staying competitive as the europeans raise the bar again and again. Our kids, with the same level of support that the Euros have, can play with any other kids in the world. Before you criticize what our kids accomplished, take a look at how much time and energy you spent helping them get to where they did, and ask yourself, why can't we do a better job supporting our kids in international play?

I wish somebody had sent a press release to this website about the event. If one was sent, then I missed it. I only read the news after the conclusion of the tournament, sad to say, because you can best believe I would have been rooting for our players!

USA, ALL THE WAY!

I'm still curious who may be influential in publicizing future youth events, informing the pool public. Would or should it be the WPA, BCA, or BEF? I think our youth would get more support if we the public knew about events they were competing in beforehand.

Thanks for the trip report. I appreciate you taking the time to contribute to our forum and let us know what's happening.

 

[Scott Lee]

saddlebow...This is exactly what I surmised when I read the press release about the top 8, and your post hits home about one reason why our kids (and many of our pros) lag behind other countries. It's certainly not for lack of talent...it's the 'behind-the-scenes' support that makes the difference. It seems like many younger American players are "taught" to 'just get out there and gamble' and that's supposed to turn you into a world class competitor. Your post exemplifies how that is not the most direct path to success. I meant no disrespect to Brandon, Danny or any of the other US kids. I'm sure they played their hearts out. Frankly, I don't know the answer on how to get our government to support youth pool, like some other countries, but I believe what you wrote, and believe that's what needs to happen...in the long run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

We are in the airport in Warsaw waiting to fly home after a long week. It's 6 am. There were six american kids here who played ther hearts out, and ran into the professional level Euro machine supported by the EBPF. You should note that the entire final 8 was all euro; not one kid from Japan, China, North or South America, the Philipines, or the US. Doesn't that tell you something? The reality is that the level of support and training for the europeans is a model for the rest of the world. Team Euro arrives with coaches, equipment support, training camps for weeks before the event, and year around training and organized competition. They are focused, as individual national teams and as team euro, on one thing: total dominance. The American kids arrived with their cues and jet lag. They got at most a couple of hours on the tables before the matches started. The Polish girl who won qualified for the tournament as a walk on the day before it started, and she went through the field undefeated. The boy's side finalists were both polish kids. One of the polish organizers said to me "The US has NASA and can put a man on the moon. Why can't you organize support for junior pool?" It's a good question, isn't it?
All that said, we have the talent and desire, and just need to bring some focus and energy to staying competitive as the europeans raise the bar again and again. Our kids, with the same level of support that the Euros have, can play with any other kids in the world. Before you criticize what our kids accomplished, take a look at how much time and energy you spent helping them get to where they did, and ask yourself, why can't we do a better job supporting our kids in international play?

 

[JAM]

...It seems like many younger American players are "taught" to 'just get out there and gamble' and that's supposed to turn you into a world class competitor....

Really? I don't quite agree with this. To believe something like this means you may not recognize the efforts of youth organizations like BEF. Those youth aren't taught to gamble.

Scott, not everybody that excels in pool gambles, as I'm sure you know, but as well, not everybody that excels in pool takes lessons from instructors. There is such a thing as natural talent, but as most know, it is all about practice, practice, practice.

IMO, the fault lies with the BCA not being the governing body of North American pool to the WPA that they're supposed to be. What has the BCA done for professional pool lately, to include the youth?!

 

[9ball]

I wish somebody had sent a press release to this website about the event. If one was sent, then I missed it. I only read the news after the conclusion of the tournament, sad to say, because you can best believe I would have been rooting for our players!

USA, ALL THE WAY!

I'm still curious who may be influential in publicizing future youth events, informing the pool public. Would or should it be the WPA, BCA, or BEF? I think our youth would get more support if we the public knew about events they were competing in beforehand.

Thanks for the trip report. I appreciate you taking the time to contribute to our forum and let us know what's happening.

Jam I agree, News of our junior players needs to get out so everyone knows what is going on.

Unfortunately, It is not that easy, Just this summer Manny Won the VNEA international Jr championship 9-13 , His friend Taylor Anderson won the 14-17 title and Manny`s friend and teammate Kenneth Greenwood took 2nd place behind Manny. An impressive feat for our boys here in Olathe Ks, Yet Not 1 news station or paper covered any of it. I tried to get them recognized on the news here and no takers. Shame!

The news is filled with bad stuff kids do , yet these boys got zilch in coverage. I finally wrote a piece for a small local paper and they agreed to publish it. But that was it.



Congrats on all the junior players for making it to the world championship, I know first hand how tough it can be for these kids to get there.


I always said we need to get our kids in pool earlier an give them the support they need just as much as any other sport, If we don`t our kids will be far behind in pool compared to the kids in the rest of the world.


In order to help our kids in the US I will make this offer again.

Any parent who has a kid who wants to be a junior player, Can contact me for free lessons , I will teach them the same systems I taught Manny and his friend Kenneth, . All free lessons will need to be here in Olathe Ks.


So if anyone knows any parents with kids let them know, So we can set something up.:smile:

I will take a PM for my phone number.


Hector Perez

 

[FranCrimi]

This press release was on AZ's front page August 29th.

Independent Event


Junior 9-Ball Champions Contend for the Gold in Europe

The Billiard Education Foundation (BEF)is pleased to announce that six (6) junior players (18 years old or younger) will be representing the United States in the World Pool-Billiard Association’s (WPA ) prestigious junior event, XX WPA World Junior 9-Ball Championships held August 31 –September 4, 2011 in Kielce, Poland.


Almost fifty (50) of the world’s best junior billiard players from six (6) continents and over twenty (20) countries will compete for the gold, silver and bronze in both the boys’ and girls’ divisions.The Billiard Congress of America (BCA), as the North American member of the WPA, provides the invitations that make it possible for North American players to participate in this esteemed event.


The U.S. junior delegates earned an entry by virtue of their performance in the 2011 BEF Junior National 9-Ball Championships, where top finishers also received, scholarship funds and prizes.


The following are among the top international players who are representing the United States:
Boys’ Division:
Danny Olson of Brookings, SD
Brendan Crockett of Bell Canyon, CA
Tyler Styer of Brookfield, WI
Shawn Begay of Gallup, NM


Girls’ Division:
Briana Miller of Allentown, PA
Taylor Reynolds of Waterville, ME


In addition to the U.S. junior players representing North America, the Canadian Billiards & Snooker Association (CBSA) has named three (3) players to represent Canada. Attending the event will be Jeff Robson, Cheng Peng and Kayla Roloson of Ontario.


For more information about this event and to view the live streaming, visit:
http://wpa-pool.com/web/home and http://www.makmarketing.pl/worldchampionships2011/


World Pool-Billiard Association
Formed in 1987, the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA) is the international governing body for pocket billiards. For more information, visit www.wpa-pool.com .


Billiard Congress of America
Founded in 1948, the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) is a non-profit trade organization dedicated to growing a united, prosperous and highly regarded billiard industry through BCA leadership. For more information, visit www.bca-pool.com.


Canadian Billiards & Snooker Association
The Canadian Billiards & Snooker Association (CBSA) is the governing body of cue sports for Canada. For more information, visit www.cbsa.ca.


Billiard Education Foundation
The Billiard Education Foundation (BEF) was formed in 1993 as a 501(c) (3) non-profit charitable organization and is committed to the growth and promotion of billiards among youth. The BEF supports youth billiard programs by funding academic scholarships, produces the Junior National 9-Ball Championships and supports billiard athletes to attend the WPA World Junior 9-Ball Championships. The BEF encourages youth to stay in school and further their education while building and maintaining a lifelong love of billiards through the “Pool In School” program, which promotes billiard clubs, teams and bias part of the physical education “Lifetime Sports” class. more information, visit www.BilliardEducation.org or call 303.926.1039.
By Press Release - 2011-08-29

 

[JAM]

Thanks for your very kind post with the copy-and-paste of the article on AzBilliards Main Page from August 29th. I must have missed it. I remember seeing those pictures, but I'm thinking it might have been from the BEF website. I'm not sure.

Here is the link of the AzBililards article for those interested in reading: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=9152

 

[JAM]

Jam I agree, News of our junior players needs to get out so everyone knows what is going on.

Unfortunately, It is not that easy, Just this summer Manny Won the VNEA international Jr championship 9-13 , His friend Taylor Anderson won the 14-17 title and Manny`s friend and teammate Kenneth Greenwood took 2nd place behind Manny. An impressive feat for our boys here in Olathe Ks, Yet Not 1 news station or paper covered any of it. I tried to get them recognized on the news here and no takers. Shame!

The news is filled with bad stuff kids do , yet these boys got zilch in coverage. I finally wrote a piece for a small local paper and they agreed to publish it. But that was it.



Congrats on all the junior players for making it to the world championship, I know first hand how tough it can be for these kids to get there.


I always said we need to get our kids in pool earlier an give them the support they need just as much as any other sport, If we don`t our kids will be far behind in pool compared to the kids in the rest of the world.


In order to help our kids in the US I will make this offer again.

Any parent who has a kid who wants to be a junior player, Can contact me for free lessons , I will teach them the same systems I taught Manny and his friend Kenneth, . All free lessons will need to be here in Olathe Ks.


So if anyone knows any parents with kids let them know, So we can set something up.:smile:

I will take a PM for my phone number.


Hector Perez

You're a good man, Hector. That is very nice for you to offer. Bravo to you! :smile:

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...You and I agree on a lot of things. This is not one of them. I've been attending Junior National tournaments for almost 30 years (long before the BEF was even organized). ALL of them have kids that are looking to gamble (not all the kids mind you). It is common for young people with natural talent to be "taken aside" or "taken on the road" by a parent, relative or "friend", in an effort to make $$$ off of them. If you don't acknowledge this, then you haven't been around the block as much as I thought you had. Even Keith was steered around by older people when he was quite young. SVB, as a youngster, was steered around by his 'uncle Mike' for a time, until the family put a stop to it. There are literally dozens of well known players where this happened when they were younger. This happens a lot more than you think, and has resulted in many kids getting burned out on the game by the time they're adults.

To state that I don't recognize the efforts of the BEF is ludicrous at best. I was one of three instructors who taught the first BCA Summer Youth Cue Camps, held for three years at UW/Eau Claire back in the early 90's. The other instructors were Mark Wilson and Jerry Briesath. Sarah Rousey came out these camps. I have also worked with countless youth at Boys & Girls Clubs across the country, and thousands of college students over the last 25 years, including dozens who went on to win state, regional and national titles. Not one of them did I ever steer towards gambling, although several of them did anyway.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Really? I don't quite agree with this. To believe something like this means you may not recognize the efforts of youth organizations like BEF. Those youth aren't taught to gamble.

Scott, not everybody that excels in pool gambles, as I'm sure you know, but as well, not everybody that excels in pool takes lessons from instructors. There is such a thing as natural talent, but as most know, it is all about practice, practice, practice.

IMO, the fault lies with the BCA not being the governing body of North American pool to the WPA that they're supposed to be. What has the BCA done for professional pool lately, to include the youth?!

 

[saddlebow]

more thoughts and observations from Kielce

Just got home to Los Angeles from Poland by way of Paris, probably won't sleep for a day or two until we all get adjusted. So here are some more or less random observations about the world of junior pool competition.
First, I need to report that the event was virtually flawless, imho, from beginning to end. The facility was a hotel with a small convention facility and virtually all of the players and guests were there for the week. Marcin Krzeminski is the owner of MAK marketing which put on the event, and he is the driving force behind junior pool in Poland for the last 20 years. The referees were all well trained, the equipment was in excellent condition, all ten tables had live streaming on the net, and the scoring equipment was set up so that a laptop at each table showed the players, whose break it was, and score in real time, all of which was networked to the central scorers and charts, which were updated at the end of each set of matches. Simply the best run tournament I've been to. The ONLY real issue for the kids was the lack of practice tables, which was magnified by the facility being in use all day before the tournament started by the local qualifier, which had 40 or so kids from all over Europe there competing for five wild card spots.
Second, as I noted earlier, the euros simply dominated the field. Most of the players have substantial youth tournament experience and are well coached. Every team euro player had a coach at the rail at every match, offering advice and support. The best analogy I can make would be to college football: the europeans run a national ranked division one program to our small independent college,and they have depth and experience that gives their kids a serious and real edge when they get up to play. The euros run regular highly competitive junior events year around, have EPBF sanctioned national and EPBF events where they compete individually and as teams in 8, 9, 10 ball, straight pool, and doubles. The team euro that came to the event had all participated in a two week camp in preparation for this event.
Our kids have as much or more talent as theirs do on a player by player comparison. But of the six american kids who went, four of them were appearing in their first international event, and none of them have the chance to play regularly against other top level juniors. The euros do every day. Iron sharpens iron, as the saying goes, and the level of preparation was obvious.
I could also see that by the end of the tournament, our kids 'got it' and the level of play rose dramatically. Just not enough to compensate for every one of them losing their first round matches. Brianna Miller showed her experience and ran three straight wins on the left side after losing her first match to the eventual winner, and finished 5th. Danny Olsen and Brendan Crockett both won twice on the left side before each getting knocked out by the two boys who finished third. They finished tied for 13th.
The advantage of the European system seems clear. EBPF is an umbrella that has oversight governance for the national organizations in each country. EBPF members fund regular tournaments, help support pros, and offer a structure and organization for juniors that gives them plenty of chance to find young talent and nurture it. For them pool is supported like any other international sport like gymnastics, track & field, soccer and the like. There is a unified structure with solid financial support that makes long term investment in its organization and has an equally long term horizon for planning.
I have to note, also, that Scott's long term interest and contributions to junior pool are very well known and he deserved a lot of credit for being there when so many others are not. And Jenny [JAM] was one of two people who responded about a month ago when I posted asking for support for the BEF to help get our kids to the tournament. Because we were all paying our own ways not all of the kids who earned a spot for the worlds got the chance to participate.
I have come to the pool word only through my son's participation and so don't understand the politics of the various groups and leagues and organizations. But what seems clear is that no one will step up to put self interest aside long enough to enable our kids from the USA to compete on an equal footing. Laura Smith operates the BEF on a shoe string and does an amazing job with nothing. The real question is why is there nothing for BEF to work with? The Polish TD made a point of seeking out the american parents, including me, to get feed back about what they did right or wrong and what they could do better. He's the one who made the NASA comment to me. I think he managed to ask the right question. Who's got the answer?

 

[JPNEWT]

Briana Miller!!

Briana Miller of Allentown PA and the JPNEWT Regional Tour took 5th place!!!!

She is having quite the good year -she is at the top of our tour (which has some pretty sporty competition - http://www.jpnewt.com/standings.asp, took 4th at the RTC tour championships and thereby qualified for the WPBA tour, won the junior nationals for the 5th or 6th time in a row and now 5th in Poland!

We are proud of her!!

 

[dardusm]

Congrats to all the juniors on their participation in the tournament. Based on the scoring, they all were very competitive, even against the Euro machine. As for the other issues brought up such as government/organization support and the effects of gambling, there isn't an easy answer.

The Euros train and treat the game like it was an Olympic sport. The mindset isn't the same here in the States. In order for the game/sport to grow in the US, it needs to take a foot hold at the junior level. But the question is how? The first logical support should come from the industry itself because it would have an immediate affect on their own bottom line. But due to economic conditions or other reasons, the billiard industry seems slow to support a junior initiative or even a legitimate pro tour.

To gamble or not to gamble is the question? Right or wrong, the gambling stigma around the sport might be a detriment to the junior ranks. It could be more difficult getting the sport introduced to the school system. I have seen a few promising junior players start gambling heavily on the game. It then becomes more about the money and not the game. I have some pause sometimes about teaching kids to play just because of the potential negative issues surrounding the game but many of those issues are part of the culture as a whole anyway. And if I teach them, then I can also warn about possible consequences of their actions.

My suggestion is to use the European model as a case study on how to develop our own junior system. Get it introduced into the schools as a legitimate sport. Maybe down the line, a student can letter in pool!