awesome free live stream for u.s. open
- Thread starter jdxprs
- Start date
That's probably a good idea that would be useful for some, not so much for me. I'm not so interested in a match after the fact, for the same reason I don't record a ball game for later viewing. I do have a small collection of pool DVD's that I enjoy once in a while mainly just to inspire me (I find watching great players brings my game up albiet only temporarily). But when I get home in the evening I'm probably more interested in watching the live match that evening rather than a replay of one of the day matches - regardless of who is playing (given that they hand-pick the stream matches). But that's just me.
Thanks for that bit of information, Jerry. That's very good news.
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You obviously feel $35.00 is a fair price. So if you are typical we can expect there to be thousands of viewers. My bet is, there will not be, there will be just the same few hundred. Drop the price to $10.00 and there will be the same few hundred. There is certainly a price threshold that no one will pay, but just dropping the price is not the answer; finding that wider audience is the answer. Like I said in my other post, how do you get viewers for an event no one knows about?
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Thats my point, what you DON'T do is charge an exclusive amount of money for a product that does not yet have a following. If you are Gordon Ramsay and you have multiple restaurants with 2+ Michelin stars then go nuts, charge a premium and you can rest assured that your following, fame, and reputation will keep your reservation list full. But pool is completely the opposite. We are a totally unknown entity, we are a niche community and sport with no following at all. We need to get this sport out there LONG before we decide to start charging premiums for the sports content that in effect limit any new potential fans from coming and checking the sport out.
If you want to use restaurants as an example then Gordon Ramsay is a good person to look at because while he has some of the most highly rated and busy restaurants out there he also has a show where he goes into restaurants with no following and terrible reputations. He gets the places cleaned up, he improves the food quality, he improves the service, and then you know what he normally does? He invites people into the restaurant to eat for free because he KNOWS that you need to get the word out there about the place, you need to get people in the door at any cost in the beginning or the place will simply sit there and remain dead indefinately.
McDonalds did the same thing with their coffee, noone drank it or ordered it and noone thought anything of it. So McDonalds said "hey, we have awesome coffee and to prove it to you we are going to offer it to you for free", and alot of people took them up on the free coffee, and guess what, now they sell on the order of thousands of percent more coffee then they once did before that marketing stunt.
Our sport is nowhere near the point where you start charging premium amounts of money for premium content, we have virtually NO fanbase atm when you compare this sport to almost any other, friggin skateboarding competitions get WAY more people watching then pool. We need to do what we can to get people watching, and the US-Open which is possibly the most important event on North American soil is wasted. 8 months to a year later maybe some editted footage skipping games will show up on ESPN of a tournament long since over and it will just make the sport look all that less interesting to the general public when compared to live pool which they never have a chance to see in an event like this.
Exposure IS the problem, and that is not going to increase with $60 PPV's. You can advertise that all you want and the people we really need to get watching this sport, Joe Public, are going to scoff at that and do something else other then watch pool.
The price is irrelevant because there is a fan base, they just don't know about the events. We don't need to invent the pool fan base they are already there.
For a high quality stream over many days, I pop $50 or $60 in a heart beat. I spend that on a decent dinner for me and my girl or a night at the movies.
Hmm, what are you comparing too? The only people charging around $40 ($35 actually) for a PPV are TAR, which have Billy Incardona commentating, in a room designed for challenge matches with proper lighting, race to 100 in 10-ball between Alex and Shane, arguelably two of the best players on the planet.
You event is 9-ball, which for most fans is an inferior game to 10-ball these days due to breaking issues. Your last couple events people figured out the rack and started running such huge packages that the matches between two top pros became coin tosses, especially the year Donny went deep with Ralf and Mika playing at the end. That tournament got boring, you guys flat out made it TOO EASY for the players, you need tighter pockets and the game of 9-ball is simply not holding up anymore.
Not to mention the fans don't get to pick the matches they want to watch, Accustats picks and often-times when I have watched an accustats event they like to throw in a womens match every second match while Efren and Earl are playing in the B-Side finals off camera, which BTW sucks and it is NOT forgotten by your potential customer base for future events when you do stuff like that.
So, since you opened that door and are comparing yourselves to those other annonymous eluded to substandard streams there are some answers. 9-ball is a dying game, less people are interested in watching it as they once were. Barry should think strongly about an official switch to 10-ball. Tight pockets would help, watching Lee Van vs Mika and having the break or one single lucked safety be the deciding factor of the match is actually not that exciting and this is another inherent issue that 9-ball has. Your stream vs a 10-ball stream on ~4 inch pockets? Sorry but your losing that race. And yeah, they are cheaper, you get the whole event for $35.
And I guess as a final note, 2 or 3 stationary cameras that can be switched back and forth are just fine for pool. You don't need to spend all that extra money on the live cameramen and if you do and then suddenly have to charge WAY more money for the stream you are doing yourselves no favours. I am guessing it comes down to later sales of the media to ESPN for TV broadcast and not the PPV viewers, but if that is the case then charge a normal ~$30-$40 amount to the PPV viewers for the entire event since they are not the primary reason for that quality level and they simply want to watch some live pool from the major event on US soil.
As a spectator sport for the professionals? Nah, we don't have a meaningful following for that at all. Hell go to the BCAPL championships in Vegas this year and see how many people are actually watching the live professional event while the Riv has 6000 pool players right there.
When I was in Vegas year before last for the BCA event, there was plenty of people paying and watcing the Pro event there. The finals was packed with Mika winning over Roberto Gomez.
Celtic, I agree the big fan base is not there yet. And for it to be there it will probably have to attract the more casual fan because for whatever reason, pool players do not support professional pool like say golfers support pro golf and recreational tennis players will watch tennis on TV.
The problem is that pool has no single organization/tour with sufficient capital to carry out the type of business plan you are talking about to make it successful - like free streams or coming up with the money to get it on TV for people to then get interested in it.
I understand the feeling that it is short sighted of promoters and streamers to not be looking at the bigger picture by making the video feed free and available to a wider audience in order to develop something for the future. But there isn't an entity that has the capital to implement that business plan. Accu-stats sure doesn't and either does Barry. For most of the folks that drive this industry, if they don't make money this year there is no next year.
Tennis and golf have deep pocket organizations with the capital to think long range. On top of that, they control an entire season of programming so can offer package deals. This allows for bigger contracts and the benefit to a network that with one contract they have sealed their Saturday and Sunday programming for an entire season. Because of this, single events like the goofy "Tavistock Cup" in golf get to piggy-back on the success of the PGA Tour and get lucrative TV deals for their lone events.
If pro pool had a viable tour that had the funds to develop a long range strategy for creating a fan base then one-off events like the US Open could probably get a TV contract so we could watch the event live for free. Events like the US Open 9, 10 and 1 Hole tournaments would probably do very well, coming to be more generally known as "major" championships in pool.
But the responsibility for implementing a long range plan just doesn't fall on the shoulders of Barry, Accustats, TAR, or any of the other individual promoters or streamers. It's just too fragmented with not enough capital.
And frankly, if I was a streamer I'd have no incentive to see this pan out because it ultimately puts me out of business if the television networks get interested and take over. I mean say there's a successful tour with a TV contract with NBC who is making decent money off the deal because it has developed a following. So NBC decides to go to Barry and offer him big $ for the rights to do the US Open. What do you think happens to Acccu-stats involvement at that point? SOL probably.
The good ones will probably adapt and morph into production companies that put on their own events and successfully sell them to TV. But eventually their core business of providing cameras and videoing events would likely go away more or less.
The problem is that pool has no single organization/tour with sufficient capital to carry out the type of business plan you are talking about to make it successful - like free streams or coming up with the money to get it on TV for people to then get interested in it.
I understand the feeling that it is short sighted of promoters and streamers to not be looking at the bigger picture by making the video feed free and available to a wider audience in order to develop something for the future. But there isn't an entity that has the capital to implement that business plan. Accu-stats sure doesn't and either does Barry. For most of the folks that drive this industry, if they don't make money this year there is no next year.
Tennis and golf have deep pocket organizations with the capital to think long range. On top of that, they control an entire season of programming so can offer package deals. This allows for bigger contracts and the benefit to a network that with one contract they have sealed their Saturday and Sunday programming for an entire season. Because of this, single events like the goofy "Tavistock Cup" in golf get to piggy-back on the success of the PGA Tour and get lucrative TV deals for their lone events.
If pro pool had a viable tour that had the funds to develop a long range strategy for creating a fan base then one-off events like the US Open could probably get a TV contract so we could watch the event live for free. Events like the US Open 9, 10 and 1 Hole tournaments would probably do very well, coming to be more generally known as "major" championships in pool.
But the responsibility for implementing a long range plan just doesn't fall on the shoulders of Barry, Accustats, TAR, or any of the other individual promoters or streamers. It's just too fragmented with not enough capital.
And frankly, if I was a streamer I'd have no incentive to see this pan out because it ultimately puts me out of business if the television networks get interested and take over. I mean say there's a successful tour with a TV contract with NBC who is making decent money off the deal because it has developed a following. So NBC decides to go to Barry and offer him big $ for the rights to do the US Open. What do you think happens to Acccu-stats involvement at that point? SOL probably.
The good ones will probably adapt and morph into production companies that put on their own events and successfully sell them to TV. But eventually their core business of providing cameras and videoing events would likely go away more or less.
^^^^^ I read this to say: despite all of the years it's been around, the billiards community, the people around it, the players, the sponsors, the product developers and everyone else involved in the game can't get their shit together?
Sounds about right.
Sounds about right.
Sponsors somehow find this of value but not pool
http://animal.discovery.com/fish/hand-fishing/how-to-noodle.html
Response directly from Accu-Stats;
Official answer - there is NO restriction by Accu-Stats against a bar or poolroom owner buying the PPV stream and putting it up on his big screen monitors to be shown to his customers.
If I was a room owner I would not only have it on every screen in the house but would be promoting the snot out of the fact.
I know if I have the money in my account when that week comes, I will drop 60 bucks on a week of pool. We are talking about a full production here and we are talking about a entire week of pool and we're also talking about a HD production. The only thing I'm ever concerned about is that there is a ample and stable internet feed to support the high quality output.
These are major events and it wasn't all that long ago, that I would never have dreamed that I could have viewed matches at a major tournament unless I dropped a thousand bucks to go to it. So if I got the cash, I'm going to watch it so I have that memory of viewing that event in my brain. Now granted it isn't going to do me any good when the heart stops beating, but while it is, I want that "pleasure" taking up space in my RAM.:smile: I love pool, or I should say I love pool played at its highest level.
These are major events and it wasn't all that long ago, that I would never have dreamed that I could have viewed matches at a major tournament unless I dropped a thousand bucks to go to it. So if I got the cash, I'm going to watch it so I have that memory of viewing that event in my brain. Now granted it isn't going to do me any good when the heart stops beating, but while it is, I want that "pleasure" taking up space in my RAM.:smile: I love pool, or I should say I love pool played at its highest level.
I have to step in here with my 2 cents.
I attended the last Turning Stone event. I couldn't believe the equipment that Pat had there to provide the stream he did. While looking at all that equipment, I couldn't believe Pat could offer that stream for free. Thank you for that by the way.:thumbup:
I also watched the stream on the other days I was not there and I'm sure, like everyone else who watched it, was impressed with the quality of the stream.
So, with that being said, if it is going to be even better quality and even more equipment, I will step up to the plate, support the game I love and support Pat for everything he does to further help our dying sport.
I attended the last Turning Stone event. I couldn't believe the equipment that Pat had there to provide the stream he did. While looking at all that equipment, I couldn't believe Pat could offer that stream for free. Thank you for that by the way.:thumbup:
I also watched the stream on the other days I was not there and I'm sure, like everyone else who watched it, was impressed with the quality of the stream.
So, with that being said, if it is going to be even better quality and even more equipment, I will step up to the plate, support the game I love and support Pat for everything he does to further help our dying sport.
I would not even pretend to know anything about this stuff. Let me ask, if somehow through say social media and tweeting forums like this one and so on, were we able to generate enough interest to draw them thousands or viewers would it potentially shut them down? Do they have to anticipate the number of viewers before hand to accommodate them?
Bandwidth should not be an issue for Accu-Stats at the US Open. Accu-Stats pays big $$$ to have a dedicated line brought in that will easily handle the live stream.
@Odzilla,
Thanks for the clarification.
@DogsPlayingPool
My thoughts exactly! The next untapped market for pool streaming is to bring these premium events to the local pool hall/bar.
What we need right now is the internet equivalent of the TV Guide for pool, so a room owner doesn't have to hunt around to find streams.
The live stream forum is a good starting point, but its not organized like a calendar where you can look up a date, and see the available streams.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77
Thanks for the clarification.
@DogsPlayingPool
My thoughts exactly! The next untapped market for pool streaming is to bring these premium events to the local pool hall/bar.
What we need right now is the internet equivalent of the TV Guide for pool, so a room owner doesn't have to hunt around to find streams.
The live stream forum is a good starting point, but its not organized like a calendar where you can look up a date, and see the available streams.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77