Joey:
Unfortunately, you had to add in what the forum is not, which I specifically ask you not to.
I answered your question fair in square, and expanded upon my answers by reiterating what the Main forum is not, based on what other point-purpose forums were created outside of it. I'm not going to play the charades game with you, so that you can manipulate my message. This is not an episode of "What's my line?". So, respectfully, let's dispense with the salesmanship tactics, ok?
I answered your question directly, immediately (right from the opening sentence), and didn't beat about the bush.
The forum is here for the general benefit and use of all AZB's membership. It is only right that no formal definition exists for the Main Forum. This is the PRIMARY FORUM and that's all it is.
That's a fare description, IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE EXISTENCE of other point-purpose forums (that's the key operative point I think you're missing here, or choose to admonish). Those other point-purpose forums sprang into existence (as they do on *any* message board) because of the abuse that commercialism -- and the human nature opportunism associated with it -- brings. In a Utopian world, Joey, your description of a "Main forum" would carry a lot of weight. Unfortunately, this is not a Utopian society. Human beings are opportunistic by nature (we can go into a long discussion here of the hunter/gatherer thing, but we won't), and therefore when a "generic" forum is displayed, the rules are bent until they break, and have to be mended. Many, many forums have had to mend their rules because of opportunistic (and devious!) sales tactics. As sales people, we all want to get our message out, in front of as many eyeballs as we can, yet we don't want to pay for the privilege.
When a large group of members of AZ Billiards chooses to rant and rave about how that person has improved their game because of one person, those of us who aren't of like mind and spirit should simply value the rights of those who voluntarily acknowledge the contributions of that person.
This has NOTHING to do with it. You think just because paid-for information is "valuable," that it automatically gets a free pass to skirt the rules? I think that's the root principle that you and I disagree on, Joey. All of our disagreements on the topic of Geno can be founded upon that one principle.
And here's the rub of why your point of "information value skirting the rules" is WRONG. Who's to say whose commercial information is "valuable enough" to the point where rule-bending takes place? Now we're going to have double standards? Who determines those double standards? If anyone (even the moderators) get into a game of "whose information is valuable enough to skirt the rules," where's the value in a double standard?
One of the reasons that Gene Albrecht continues to receive the accolades of many posters is that he is making a valuable contribution to their pool game.
So what? There is a place for that -- dedicated forums, like the Wanted / For Sale and the handful of review forums that Clark_the_Shark moderates. Many players (including yourself) like using a glove -- and they think it's ESSENTIAL for their game -- but you don't see Seyberts coming onto the Main forum and spamming glove advertisements onto it, do you? Many folks (like myself) think Accu-Stats DVDs are ESSENTIAL for learning pool in its many ways/shapes/forms, but you don't see Pat Fleming spamming the Main forum with ads, do you?
It is in THIS MAIN FORUM, that most of those people heard about Gene Albrecht and his PERFECT AIM system. It is only right that they have the opportunity to talk about their individual experiences right here on the MAIN FORUM.
If Gene continues to light the candle of aiming perception for some people, I hope that the management of AZ Billiards has the wisdom to continue to make allowances for any downside that might be perceived by a few. But more importantly, I hope that the management realizes that those who are receiving the benefits of Gene's FREE PHONE LESSONS have as much right to express how Gene has helped their pool games, and yes, IN THIS MAIN FORUM.
That's a cop-out, Joey. Geno happened to slip under the radar and manipulate the rules to get to that point. I guarantee you that if the mods had any inkling that his initial posts would lead to what we have now, that his posts would've been acted upon (i.e. moved into the correct forums) right from the outset.
And he's STILL manipulating the rules (and intent) of the Main forum with his loss leader free phone lessons. You can capitalize the letters of free phone lessons all you want -- it's still a loss leader.
Yes, Gene is a salesman but if it hadn't been for his skills at selling, many people would be still languishing in the mediocrity of their pool game.
If the MAIN FORUM isn't here to give a blessing to improving one's pool game, then I don't know what better good it can serve.
This is another cop-out. Anybody can say their product exists to "help pool players." Any vendor, Seyberts, Muellers, Stan, Geno, etc. -- can say this. It doesn't give them a free pass to spam the forums with advertisements, no matter how "valuable" the product is. This goes back to what I discussed previously about the double standard thing.
The truth is that Gene has been BADGERED, CONDEMNED and ATTACKED for his PERFECT AIM SYSTEM by a few, WHILE DOZENS continue to sing his praises. Why is that? Hmmmmm. I wonder.
Joey, I don't have a problem with Geno's product. I have a problem with Geno's tactics. I don't have a problem with "perfect aim." I have a problem with Geno's infomercials on the Main forum. Can we not get that straight? I never attacked Gene's product. I attack Gene's tactics.
Gene has not retaliated to one of those mean-spirited attacks and even you have to admit that. Most would have lit up the forum with expletives that would embarass even the most uncouth.
And that wasn't me, right? I think I've been pretty consistent in my message to Gene, and my message centered around his tactics, but NEVER with a mean spirit or lit up the forum with expletives.
I probably spend an above average amount of time on the forum based upon the number of my posts and the length of time that I have been a member and I have no problem with passing over threads that do not interest me. I also have no problem reading and interacting with threads that do interest me.
I can't call what you are doing a witch hunt, because I genuinely believe you don't mean Gene any harm but but attempting to censor what other posters are talking about, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CONCERNS POOL and THE IMPROVEMENT OF THEIR POOL GAMES, you and a couple of others do the Main Forum more harm than good. Again, if this Main Forum isn't about improving your pool game, then I really don't know what it is.
You are correct in that I NEVER meant any harm to Geno, especially in the condition he is in now. I felt bad when I heard the news of his accident.
But, staying on topic, here we go again with the double standard discussion. So let me get this straight, Joey. You believe that if a vendor has a product that they believe will help pool players, that they should be allowed to spam the forum with no restrictions? That eyeballership is
more important than anything else? Honestly, I can see why you believe this, because you're in sales yourself. On this, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Gene Albrecht is one of the best things to happen to this website.
People complain about pro players not spending time here. This wishful censoring and sniping by a few is why they don't come here.
This is a yet another cop-out. We can all surmise and present conjecture about why pro players don't spend any time here. That doesn't make any of us right, until an actual pro player explains out in the open why. None of them have. I do know that the few pro players that *have* posted here (i.e. John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, Dennis Hatch) don't as often anymore because they simply have no time. And the spare time they do have, why spend it on a forum?
We have GOLD with Gene and you want to push him off in some corner of the website where he won't be of benefit to most of the members of AZB.
Another cop-out. The viewership numbers of the Wanted / For Sale forum are surpassed only by the Main forum. Go take a look, Joey. I'll go on record as saying that Geno's infomercials would do more good in the Wanted / For Sale forum, precisely because they will be eyeballed by folks
there to purchase something in the first place.
If the management had the money, THEY SHOULD PAY GENE TO POST ON THIS FORUM because he can and has helped people become more excited about their pool game than practically any other poster.
When people become excited about improving their pool game, they bring other people into the sport. We need more people excited about their pool game and we certainly need more people playing pool. Gene helps with all of that.
Gene has AND CONTINUES TO HELP MANY PEOPLE to improve their pool game and that deserves to be here in the Main Forum.
Again, we're talking about double standards here. Many, MANY products are helpful to pool players. Geno's is not the only one. As discussed, just because a product is "helpful" doesn't give its vendor a free pass to spam the forum with infomercials.
In the spirit of answering your questions (which I did), may you return the favor now? My question to you is the topic of the double standard. Do you think vendors should be allowed to spam the forums with advertisements and infomercials? And if not open season to all vendors, but rather the value of the product should be determined by someone to allow that product's ads onto the Main forum, who determines that product's value? And how often can that product's ads be "bumped" by the vendor?
Eagerly looking forward to your answer, without you stereotyping me and globbing me in with the "haters,"
-Sean
