What do you think about Ralf in a tournament format? Do you think anybody in the world is a hands down favorite over him in a tournament? I dont have the stats of his wins over the last 5 or 10 years, but it seems that he may be the most consistant top placing player in the world. What are your thoughts?
Ralf Souquet
- Thread starter 9ball mike
- Start date
Ralf probably deserves to be counted among the ten best players that ever lived.
My thoughts are these: In the game of 9-ball, tournament format, I cannot think of any player that he couldn't beat. If not THE favorite, then he would certainly have to be picked at worst to be an odds-on favorite (one of a select few that has the best chance at winning it all). I will say this about Ralf, he is one of the classiest acts in men's pool and takes second to no one in that regard. There may be some AS classy, but he personifies the word "class". He is one of my favorite people in pool, although his deliberate play is hard to watch at times.
Maniac
Ralph!
This guy is world class in every regard. He takes his kraft serious and the results speak for themself. Archer is one of the few guys that seems to have the same mind set at every tourny..., when or get in the money!
I think Ralf could beat anybody in the toruny format in 9ball, would love to see him in a challange match with, Archer or Morris all three have had very good runs in 20010 and 2011.
This guy is world class in every regard. He takes his kraft serious and the results speak for themself. Archer is one of the few guys that seems to have the same mind set at every tourny..., when or get in the money!
I think Ralf could beat anybody in the toruny format in 9ball, would love to see him in a challange match with, Archer or Morris all three have had very good runs in 20010 and 2011.
Although this tid bit about Ralf isn't actually a stat and has nothing to do with his tournament play I thought you might like to know anyway. Its the most impressive thing I've ever heard about him.
In a practice session he broke and ran 26 racks of 8 ball IN A ROW!! In my opinion that makes him top 10 in the world if not 5.:bow-down: Don
In a practice session he broke and ran 26 racks of 8 ball IN A ROW!! In my opinion that makes him top 10 in the world if not 5.:bow-down: Don
Youre kidding right?
On the contrary, it is much harder to beat champion after champion after champion than to wear down a single opponent. Just because Ralf doesn't race to 100 doesn't mean he couldn't, but ultimately, who cares whether he could? Neither did Lassiter, neither did Mosconi, neither did Sigel. In fact, we'd have to vacate nearly the entire BCA Hall of Fame if the ability to frequently win races to 100 games of nine/ten ball is the only posible measure of a true champion. I don't know of anyone out there who is successful in winning races to 100 that has a winning record in tournament play against Ralf, and that includes Efren.
Ralf has been a world champion in at least five different disciplines, a claim than only a few players in history can make. His resume of titles is unmatched in the last twenty five years,
I always find it shocking when somebody suggests that those that choose not to gamble at pool somehow lack the credentials for greatness on a legendary scale.
Is this true? If so, unreal. Unbelievable feat
Your claims about Sigel and probably Lassiter are way off base. Anyway, the race to 100 was just an example, not the only way.
Everybody has their own opinion, that's just the way it is. I express mine using what I feel is a very good analogy. Mountain climbers.
You could technically be the best mountain climber in the world, but if you don't tackle the worlds best, say one or two mountains that only a few have conquered, you're not the best. That's it. How can you possibly be the best without really beating any single player (races to 9 mean nothing), and without doing what other "true" top players have done (eg beat a champion 10 ahead etc). You can't, end of story. You can be technically the best, but that's it.
If he is so good, you have to ask yourself, why not just play somebody for real then? There are only a couple of answers to this.... you have yours, I have mine (which I wont even post). It is really just a difference of opinion, but please don't mislead with the sigel statement.... the other were before my time, but sigel was a true champion in every way. And to counteract your mosconi statement, you see, they played longer races back then. If we had good tests today in tournaments, what I say would not be necessary because the tournaments themselves would be good tests. But we dont. So we need the "extra-curriculars" to prove yourself as many of the worlds best have (along with the tournament titles). Like a resume, ralf doesn't have that on his -- he can never reach that level. He can't compare. Good for him if he's comfortable with that, but you have to favor the players that have proven themselves in all areas as the worlds best.
Do you guys know who one of the WORST tournament players ever was? Ronnie Allen. Best one pocket player that ever lived perhaps, played terrible in tournaments. Why? Because he'd dog a shot in a race to 4. Yet in a long race, his TRUE skills were able to shine and he had an amazing legacy of beating the best. What this tells us is tournaments mean very little when deciding the best players.
Answer honestly without even thinking about the analogy. Who would you favor, the climber who conquered every mountain, or the guy who was technically the best, yet didn't go for the most extreme mountains?
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Do you really think it's a coincidence that Ralf has won so many major events? In some events he'll beat Reyes, Pagulayan, Feijien, Orcullo and SVB to win the title. When a player does that more often than anyone else over a period of 10+ years it tells you something.
Predjo
Registered
I'm just not getting it...
For me, beating 5 or 10 worldclass Players in a row (doesn't matter at all if the race goes to 8, 9, 10 whatever...) as Ralf did along his career, is a bigger achievement than playing some stupid race to 100 against one single guy.
i'm even sure that he would win the race to 100 if he would try because of his consistency and because of his "class". if he doesn't want to, its his choice and you can't blame him for this.
One of the best tournaments player ever, I think. He has a winning record against Efren in tournament matches, but has just recently won a couple against Orcollo after years of getting spanked by him. Lets just say that if Efren meets Ralf any time in a tournament, $$ on Ralf. If Ralf meets Dennis, $$ on Dennis. If Ralf meets Shane, I lean towards Ralf a little. Ralf against Alex, $ on Ralf. Ralf against Mika, tough call but I think Mika gets it if a revolver is placed against my head. Ralf is one tough hombre.
I've seen Ralf never miss a ball, and I've also seen him have a bad day. Hey, it happens to all of the pros.
Ralf is a strategic player, analyzing each shot. To his credit, he usually chooses the right shot, but this speed of play is sometimes slow-like and difficult to sweat, speaking as a railbird and not as a pool purist.
As far as charisma, he's a sweetheart. I've never met anyone who has anything bad to say about Ralf, and I've also never heard Ralf say anything bad about anyone else. He's got the "wow" factor, and everybody likes him.
My favorite Ralf moment was when he came in second place in the Philippines against Ronnie Alcano at the 2006 WPC. He tried to hold his composure giving his acceptance speech for the runner-up trophy, but he lost it. The entire crowd cheered him on, letting him know how much they loved him. I still cry happy tears when I watch the video.
ralf is a great tournament player. his style matches up very well in tournaments. imo tournaments are different than gambling matches. in that tournaments u are constantly playing tight because its just one set and a short one at that. he plays slow and analyzes everything. his speed of play may get to some of his opponents, just think how annoying it would be to watch someone play super slow and on top of that never miss a ball. i think this style of play would not hold up in a long gambling session or even a race to 100. too much energy is used by playing ralfs way. hes a grinder but to be good after long hours u have to rely on instincts. i dont know why ralf does not gamble but i do know that matching up with someone puts alot of pride on the line, different from entering a tournament. when u match up with someone you are saying you are going to beat this person till they quit and you are going to prove u are the better person. in a tournament its a handful of players who could win ,luck and rolls... also good play will get u to the finals. out of all the titles ralf has won there were probably atleast one hill - hill match or a win by only 2 games. couldve gone either way. gambling is different if you played bad 1 set, flip the coin and run it back. ralf is a great player but i dont know if he has the heart to gamble alot of these great players dont like putting there pride on the line. lots of egos and you best believe these champions dont like to lose. its nothing to lose in a tournament but its another to lose matching up
I totally understand that you, along with many others, don't get it. To beat another champion who's entire life is pool is very difficult. You have to break them, 100%. There is nothing more difficult than doing this to a true champion. He hasn't done this to even one player. Other players have won tournaments too, AND they have got in done in other venues. It's just a difference of opinion I guess, no real big deal. But, i'd say pool is about 50% tournaments, and 50% gambling (I think that is generous too). To say you are at the top while disregarding 50% of your sport is weak. Further, the tournaments aren't even good tests like say tennis or golf. If they were, I'd have much less of a problem with him being at or near the top.
I think "worth" needs to come into play too when deciding the best in this situation. If a guy is the best guy in the world, technically, with a deck of cards, yet he can't perform in front of people, the worth of his skill is drastically diminished, I think we'd all agree. I hope we'd therefore all agree as well that Ralf's decision to not play in this maybe 50% of pool lowers the worth of his skill, and thus his credentials (in my book). You HAVE to put the people who perform well in both these venues at the top. Hell, even if he was unstoppable and won 10 tournaments in a row, i'd still feel this way. I mean if Orcollo comes up to him and asks him to play 15 ahead for 100k in Ralf's own room, and he says no, where does that leave him? If he's unstoppable, why not just take him down?? What is the difference anyway? In a tournament you put up money and other players do as well. Matching up you put up money, and one player does as well. I just don't even see his big hang up. It's not about big races either, it could be races to 9 for 5k or something, what it is really about is making the other guy quit. He's never done that, and you think he is one of the best. Again, I just disagree.
Here is a Bruce Lee quote to ponder:
“Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.”
Anyway, I know he is a popular guy. I like him too!! I simply don't think he is one of the best because he wont put himself out there. This is just how I feel, forgive if I was too crass before
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Champions put their egos on the line. I think that is what it is all about. When he loses tournaments, it is very easy on the ego, you are right. Not so if you truly test yourself. THe thing that surprises me is that more people don't feel the way I do. I mean how can you consider someone a champion who puts a big "off limits" sign on them when they walk into any pool room?! That is what it is all about, right there. And for him to 100% avoid these situations is a dubious distinction for a true champ. To me, he is simply a top notch "preparer" and "practicer" and he is very thorough when it comes to this, but that isn't the essence of a champion.
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