Kamui Black SS Tips - Premature Hardening?

GBCues

GBCues

Damn, still .002 TIR!
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Hey Guys,

Has anyone had a problem with Kamui Black SS tips getting harder after installation?

I put one on a customer's cue. His first impression was that he loved it. But yesterday (about 3 weeks after installation) he came to me and asked if I would put a different tip on his cue. I could feel (with my durometer calibrated fingernail :smile:) that his tip was definitely harder than the SS I put on my personal player.

BTW, my customer is an excellent money player, doesn't break with his playing cue, and in general doesn't hit that hard.

Just wondering if this is common or if there is a known cause.

Gary
 
I've installed a bunch of them and never had it happen. It what I use on my personal cue as well, and it hasn't happened. That's the main thing I like about them, they remain consistent throughout the whole tip.
 
I find that like many layered tips...they get harder after some hours of table time. Kamui blacks seem the worst to glaze up and get hard. Take example one of my favorite tips...the Sniper by Tiger. After a fresh install many would feel its the softest tip they've ever tried. After a month or two they feel quite different. I've even sold a few cues with used Snipers that the new owners wanted changed due to feeling too hard. Nature of the beast. Lately I've had rave reviews from a simple Triangle that I soak then lightly press....pretty consistant throughout the tip life. :smile:
 
I don't know about the SS,but have had this happen with the M.

I put one on my own cue. I left it taller than my usual,but not 100% either.

It was softer than I typically liked,but it was a GOOD soft,not mushy/spongy/whatever you prefer to call it. I left it as is.

I'm now down to about 1/16 sidewall thickness. It has crisped up GREAT,very much like the old-school Moori,or an unpressed Sumo.

When this one was in it's soft phase,it had a good,dense feel and sound,but gripped the cue ball well. However,I didn't get the same sound from my cue that I expect.

Once it hardened up or got down thin,the "ping" I've always expected to hear from my cue magically reappeared.

It still hasn't mushroomed any since the first 4 hours of play at close to full height.

I still get the benefit of not having to truly chalk after every shot too.

I used the Sumo's for years,and can't get them any more esp in quantity.

I've found the replacement,and will try the H at some point as well.

A damn fine product. Tommy D.
 
I've found with most tips that They play their best when getting too thin and It's about time for Them to be replaced.

As far as tips playing harder over time, I always assumed that It comes natural due to compression of the tip from repeated use, and with possibly the exception of Milk duds, that It Is one of the reasons for pressing them, so that they will be more consistent out of the gate, as well as reducing any mushrooming issues.

Greg
 
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but that Ping sound Tommy, is that a good thing?

I have found all tips harden up over table time and as they wear down. The getting shorter makes sense to the harder tip as there is less material for a cushion.
What is common with alot of snooker players out here, is they change the tip when they think it is getting too hard for what they like.
Most will do the change themselves at home with a knife and sandpaper.

The thin super glues can be absorbed in the first few layers and has the effect of hardening the tip as well. I am guessing that you are using the gel or thicker superglue on the tips.
Neil
 
conetip said:
. . . .l. I am guessing that you are using the gel or thicker superglue on the tips.
Neil
Click to expand...

Neil,

Yep, I use Loctite Ultra Gel (stored in the beer fridge :shocked2:)

Thanks all for your replies - at first I thought I was the only one (which is rare here).

Gary
 
Anyone try Gorilla poly glue on tips ?
I think I'm quitting soaking Kamuis with thin CA then CA-gel after that .
 
Would be nice. After 5 coats of thin cyano getting soaked up into the last OLDER S and giving up, I'd like to know a solution. I'm not in the position to start experimenting with 20.00 tips.

One of my players is complaining of an occasional "ping" on a NEWER soft as well. I haven't been able to induce it with his cue(like I can with a loose tip), nor have I heard it(like I can with a loose tip)
 
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Everest tip is the king of this premature hardening in my experience. Kamui black medium and soft also do it, but not as bad (medium is worse). I use joel's tip tool to scuff it a little bit and back in business for another 10 hours or so of play. I don't think it has anything to do with the type of glue you used when installing it. Just routine maintenance will keep it going.

However, the tip that didn't give me any such headache is pooldawg8's milkduds. I will switch back to those once I get my money's worth from Kamui, which I had to install it in the first place because I ran out of milkduds. Triangle, Moori Medium, and WB also held up pretty good when I used them.
 
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Sport666 said:
Gary, i might have to stop by too check out this beer..... i mean glue.
Click to expand...


The Oktoberfest is just about out of season, but then the Christmas/Winter ales come in, so I'll keep both cold for ya!!

:smile:

Gary
 
pescadoman said:
Would be nice. After 5 coats of thin cyano getting soaked up into the last OLDER S and giving up, I'd like to know a solution. I'm not in the position to start experimenting with 20.00 tips.

One of my players is complaining of an occasional "ping" on a NEWER soft as well. I haven't been able to induce it with his cue(like I can with a loose tip), nor have I heard it(like I can with a loose tip)
Click to expand...

Randy,

There was a recent thread about this - and referenced the Kamui's in particular.

The general consensus seemed to be that it had to do with air under the tip - not always, but often - any void in the interface between the tip and the ferrule (like a bleed hole in a capped ferrule) needs to be filled.

HTH

Gary
 
GBCues said:
Randy,

There was a recent thread about this - and referenced the Kamui's in particular.

The general consensus seemed to be that it had to do with air under the tip - not always, but often - any void in the interface between the tip and the ferrule (like a bleed hole in a capped ferrule) needs to be filled.

HTH

Gary
Click to expand...

I know what causes it...:)

I may have given you the wrong impression by my statement. I would very much like to NOT have to put a bunch of thin cyano on the glue side of a tip in order for it to stick.

After soaking up 5 drops(and counting) how soft IS a soft tip? I suppose I can just do 1. I typically let one soak in, then sand with 400. If the surface looks non porous and gluable, then I'll stop.

That older Kamui S was an anomaly. I've never seen ANY tip soak up glue like that.
 
conetip said:
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but that Ping sound Tommy, is that a good thing? Neil
Click to expand...

Yes I believe so ;). The sound I'm referring to is a musical tone all to itself,much like the typical sound from SS joint/ivory ferrule combos made by what I refer to as the Maryland crowd of greats.

By these guys I mean similar cues made by Danny Janes,Stroud when he commonly made cues of this style,Scruggs,Black Boar,Phillippi,and even though the weren't made in Maryland,Szamboti.

The sound isn't a JUNK sound,like a note played on a good guitar but not fretted cleanly either. With either of the original ivory ferruled shafts,they even "sing" when being chalked at times.

To put it another way,it doesn't sound like a Meucci with a weight bolt issue or a bad tip install :thumbup:.

All cool with you asking though :cool:. Tommy D.
 
pescadoman said:
I know what causes it...:)

I may have given you the wrong impression by my statement. I would very much like to NOT have to put a bunch of thin cyano on the glue side of a tip in order for it to stick.

After soaking up 5 drops(and counting) how soft IS a soft tip? I suppose I can just do 1. I typically let one soak in, then sand with 400. If the surface looks non porous and gluable, then I'll stop.

That older Kamui S was an anomaly. I've never seen ANY tip soak up glue like that.
Click to expand...

Randy,

Oops, sorry about that!:embarrassed2: That's the problem with forums and email - no body language or tone inflection to understand what the person really means.

I just use one drop of gel cyano and haven't had any problems with tips staying on - this is a new one, but apparently fairly common.

Gary
 
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The reason for asking is because I put a WB tip on my carbon shaft and it made this very high pitch tink every time the cueball was struck. The hit was ok, but just hearing this ring sort of put me off. It is not the same as a loose tip.

I do not think the thin CA is good for the tips. I use the thicker rubber toughened glue and give it some time to soak in a little before assembly. I have had to prime some tips with the same glue, then after it has dried, re scuff and then glue.I do this for my tips.
For most customers here, I use 24hr epoxy.If I use anything else, the impression is I am not doing the install properly.
 
What I do is coat the bottom with a thin,"hotter" CA and let it soak in.

Sometimes,one coat is enough. Other times,I reapply the thin,let it soak in too,then wipe off the extra.

I start by sanding the bottom on 150 grit paper glued onto a ground steel plate. I apply the thin glue,let it soak in or wipe it off depending on the tip,then remove sanding dust and resand on a 320 plate.

I then remove all sanding dirt and glue it on the ferrule with a thicker,slower setting CA.

I'm currently using Hobby Lobby branded thin CA with the pink top,which I believe is re-branded Satellite City Hot Stuff.

For installing the tip on the ferrule,Loctite Professional in the blue bottle. I've also had great results with the thicker Hobby Lobby stuff,as well as Gorilla CA.

The sound we've discussed isn't everyones brand of vodka,LOL. Tommy D.
 
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