Tips and tricks #1 Combinations.....

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I know we all argue about if there are really secrets out there to be had.... Tips and tricks may not be such a volatile term.......

What tips and tricks can you think of for shooting combination shots???

I was told a long time ago that I needed to ignore the second ball in the combination and shoot the first ball at a spot on the rail instead....
 
Combinations

If you have ball in hand..

I like to set my cue ball distance from the object ball the same distance all the time. That way you're basically shooting the same shot every time.
 
cyrex said:
If you have ball in hand..

I like to set my cue ball distance from the object ball the same distance all the time. That way you're basically shooting the same shot every time.
Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty good tip... I tend to avoid combos at all cost so I don't have a ton of experience shooting them...

The combo was likely the hardest shot I saw taken frequently at the Open this year... I decided it was high time I learned to be comfortable playing them.....
 
I remember hearing from Corey Deuel on one of the streams that if the balls are close together (less than 6 inches apart or so) combos have more margin for error than shooting a regular shot the same distance.

Also if the last ball is close to the pocket you have lots of margin for error. If the balls are far apart and far from the pocket don't shoot it.
 
Well of course practicing them is the number 1 tip.

I use what I call connect the dots for combos. I find the spot on the table that if the CB was to roll over that spot, then ball 1 would go in the pocket. I then use that spot on the table to find the spot on table that if the CB was to roll that spot would cause the ball 2 to roll over the spot on the table that would make the ball 1 go in the pocket.

So, I just connect the dots, so to speak. Also works for carom shots.

Training with two of Babe Cranfields arrows can help you get the feel for combos as well as caroms.

The spot on the table is on the same line to the pocket as the OB CP. It is always 1/2 CB from the outer most edge of the OB.

The arrow is such a useful training tool.
 
mnShooter said:
I remember hearing from Corey Deuel on one of the streams that if the balls are close together (less than 6 inches apart or so) combos have more margin for error than shooting a regular shot the same distance.

Also if the last ball is close to the pocket you have lots of margin for error. If the balls are far apart and far from the pocket don't shoot it.
Click to expand...

I would never contradict Corey on anything, but he was obviously drunk, or he was talking about something else.

Combinations are by laws of physics more difficult than a regular shot. The "error" on the first ball is magnified on the second ball. In the end, a small miss on the first ball will lead to an even greater miss on the second ball.
 
Maybe it's just the way that I see them, so I admit I could be wrong, but I seem to have read somewhere...............and when I've had success, I aim to cut the 2nd ball thinner than usual because I feel as if for some reason in combos there seems to be more cling/throw issues than a normal 'true' cut with the CB. Again, it may just be the way that I see 'em, but although I don't like to combo, this formula has worked for me.

dave
 
I rarely go for combos because 1. I suck, 2. They are very hard shots. In a pressured situation its never a good idea to take on combos unless the second ball is close to the pocket and you can't miss. For a combo the best insurance is to play two way shot. If you have ball in hand, make sure that you can safe your opponent if you miss, even if it makes the combo a little harder. Maybe I am a conservative player that's all. But speed and cue ball control is the key!
 
AimingVoodoo said:
I would never contradict Corey on anything, but he was obviously drunk, or he was talking about something else.

Combinations are by laws of physics more difficult than a regular shot. The "error" on the first ball is magnified on the second ball. In the end, a small miss on the first ball will lead to an even greater miss on the second ball.
Click to expand...

Well, no. If a combination has a quarter-inch separation and is pointed straight at the pocket, the cue ball can land anywhere on a 2-inch target on the first ball and the second will go in.

As far as the geometry goes, if the balls are exactly a ball apart (and you know where to hit the first ball, which is not always obvious due to throw and such), then the combination is about as difficult as the simple shot with one of the object balls removed. This is pretty easy to show geometrically.
 
Neil said:
Here is what I use. It is not fool proof by any means, but does work quite well on most "feasible" combos. Most combos are either a half ball hit, 3/4 hit, or 7/8 hit. Just line up the first contact ball to one of those aims, it will be obvious which is the right one, and then you have the contact point on the first ball.
Click to expand...

I see why you like jump shots.
 
Need to measure.............

The Renfro said:
I know we all argue about if there are really secrets out there to be had.... Tips and tricks may not be such a volatile term.......

What tips and tricks can you think of for shooting combination shots???

I was told a long time ago that I needed to ignore the second ball in the combination and shoot the first ball at a spot on the rail instead....
Click to expand...

Hi there Renfro,

If a person knows how to measure how much of the object ball the cue ball needs to hit then that is all that needs to be done. You could still miss the shot but by knowing the exact amount this will give you the best chance.

I teach players with a measurement of the stick they can tell how much of the object ball they need to hit on any shot they are not sure of. They I let them see how it works for themselves. If they don't make the combo they come pretty close.

One of the pool organizations in Wisconsin, I heard through the grapevine, is trying to make a rule that you can't measure with the cue stick. I don't think it will fly. At least i hope not.

Any measurement with the cue stick right now is OK unless you take your hand off the cue.

It works.................hard to teach it in a phone lesson but it's easy to teach in person or from the video.

The problem is most players don't seem to see the need to know exactly the amount of the OB they need to hit. They think they can just eyeball it or guess.

The players that can tell you the exact amount they have to hit are called pros. The ones that say it doesn't matter,or they just know, or just feel it. Amatuers.

Once you know for sure it makes the shot alot more makable for sure. More info you have the better. And this is huge especially on some shots including combos.

How I do this I have never seen in a video or book. Nobody taught me this. I figured this out myself quite a while ago. It's just a small part of Perfect aim.
It's in the Perfect Aim video. It is the nutz, or as good as it gets, shooting combos!
 
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Tokyo-dave said:
Maybe it's just the way that I see them, so I admit I could be wrong, but I seem to have read somewhere...............and when I've had success, I aim to cut the 2nd ball thinner than usual because I feel as if for some reason in combos there seems to be more cling/throw issues than a normal 'true' cut with the CB. Again, it may just be the way that I see 'em, but although I don't like to combo, this formula has worked for me.

dave
Click to expand...

I will try that. There's no combo I can't miss and it is usually on the thick side, now you mention it.

I find I don't always hit the CB in the middle with combos and am not sure why.
 
i know any type of english poses a problem with combos. i try to hit dead center on the cue ball.

ball speed also plays its part because you can only manipulate one ball at a time.(this is an interesting math problem for pool/math nuts)
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Maybe it's just the way that I see them, so I admit I could be wrong, but I seem to have read somewhere...............and when I've had success, I aim to cut the 2nd ball thinner than usual because I feel as if for some reason in combos there seems to be more cling/throw issues than a normal 'true' cut with the CB. Again, it may just be the way that I see 'em, but although I don't like to combo, this formula has worked for me.

dave
Click to expand...

I agree, and I think this is because, assuming the balls are fairly close together, the first ball is basically hitting the second ball with a stun shot; it doesn't have much spin, top, bottom, or side. For me, if I'm cutting a ball and stunning the CB, I find I have to aim thinner since stun shots have the most contact throw.

So I get my best results by lining up how I would make the second ball if the first ball was the CB and I was hitting a stun shot. Then I usually use the "spot on the rail", once I've figured out exactly what direction I want the first ball to go.

-Andrew
 
Was just going to post something similar but saw Andrew beat me to it... :)

Stun does increase collision induced throw (CIT), and unless you are hitting the combo softly and the first ball is traveling a distance to the second ball, a lot of them will effectively be stun shots, which is why you want to aim just a bit thinner than expected. And personally I try to avoid any english, already difficult enough without trying to compensate for that as well.

Scott
 
Zhero said:
I rarely go for combos because 1. I suck,

.... For a combo the best insurance is to play two way shot. If you have ball in hand, make sure that you can safe your opponent if you miss... Maybe I am a conservative player...!
Click to expand...

Conservative to the point that you are gonna give up BIH if you make the combo!?

I'd say that's tighter than, uhh....
 
Soft and Softer

I try to hit the first ball just soft enough to get it rolling to the second ball. The second ball will be hit softly with the first ball to get it rolling also. Hitting combos hard just makes them skid and all the measuring you've done goes right out the window.
 
Neil said:
It works for me, and for everyone that I have shown it to in person. I seldom miss a combo. And, I very rarely jump.;) If you actually try it, and it doesn't work for you, you are out a few minutes of time, and that is all.
Click to expand...

I'll try to find a table which conveniently lines up the pockets with "a half ball hit, 3/4 hit, or 7/8 hit" and try it.:thumbup:
 
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