2 more stolen cues recovered! Tank you God for stipid criminals

[danquixote]

The smart thing to do if you want to get at least $2000 is to sell them on ebay or in some pool hall for a little less than they're worth so the thought of them being stolen doesn't cross someones mind but the deal is good enough not to pass up.

Jaden



No This is not the "smart" thing to do. It is the WRONG thing to do. It is stealing plain and simple. You have just fenced stolen goods knowingly. People that behave in such manner have much shorter life spans than those that don't. And many fewer REAL friends as well......Dan

 

[Jaden]

you didn't read the whole thing and the qualifyer

The smart thing to do if you want to get at least $2000 is to sell them on ebay or in some pool hall for a little less than they're worth so the thought of them being stolen doesn't cross someones mind but the deal is good enough not to pass up.

Jaden



No This is not the "smart" thing to do. It is the WRONG thing to do. It is stealing plain and simple. You have just fenced stolen goods knowingly. People that behave in such manner have much shorter life spans than those that don't. And many fewer REAL friends as well......Dan

I said if you're hell bent on getting your $2000 back that is the smartest way to do so. I also said the ethical thing to do which is what I would personally suggest for people to do...

Jaden

The purpose was to illustrate between the ethical thing to do, the greedy thing to do and the "stupid" thing to do, and to illustrate that what was done, was the stupidest possible way to handle the situation....

 

[brokenarrowjbe]

Unless you microchip the cue, I would never have known they were stolen if they came up for sale around here. Glad you got your cues back, John

 

[JoeyA]

Unless you microchip the cue, I would never have known they were stolen if they came up for sale around here. Glad you got your cues back, John

My cue was micro-chipped by Mike Bender when it was created, so the chip is buried deep within the cue and the cue would have to be destroyed to get the chip out.

I've left my Bender cue out twice at Buffalo Billiards. Once, a drunk patron picked it up and took it home, "because he thought it belonged to another group of people who had ripped him off". Through friends it was discovered and through friends it was returned.

The other time, one of the patrons told the bartender someone had left a cue on the table and the bartender picked it up and returned it to me the next day.

Yeah, twice now....Don't tell me three times the charm. :banghead:

 

[mia]

It would be more that he is supposed to give up 2000 that he never really gave up because he never had it, because of his own stipidity for accepting stolen property for payment of a gambling debt and then trying to extort the true owner instead of selling it to someone else... That is the stipid part...

Now he's also possibly giving up some of his free time because of his stipidity, right or wrong...

If you are going to talk to the original owner and hope for a reward don't admit that you knowingly received stolen property and you better be willing to accept whatever he offers you or be willing to go to jail.

The ethical thing to do would be to return the cue and accept any reward offered no matter how small.

The smart thing to do if you want to get at least $2000 is to sell them on ebay or in some pool hall for a little less than they're worth so the thought of them being stolen doesn't cross someones mind but the deal is good enough not to pass up.

The stipid thing to do is to try and sell it to the original owner, admit that you knew it was stolen property and refuse to accept the generous 10% of their value reward offered.

Jaden

Thanks for the laugh.

I gotta say, while I'm glad the cues are back in the hands of the rightful owner, this whole thread was pretty stipid from the onset.

 

[risky biz]

I didn't. If I had I known that they were then I would have returned them to the owner for no money and told him who I got them from. I would have considered the gambling debt still open.

Like I said, no grey area. None.

Just an ethical black hole where you hurriedly sold them with no questions asked.

 

[risky biz]

If something was stolen from you and at a later time you were aproached and told you could buy it back what would you do?

hint- this isn't rocket science

I would ask how they acquired the cue. And a lot of people here seem to consider that an unfathomable logic puzzle.

 

[JB Cases]

Just an ethical black hole where you hurriedly sold them with no questions asked.

Jeeze will you quit. #1 I had played that same guy MANY times over the years and knew him and his cues. He was a pool room acquaintance and the cues he used were shitty low end cues. They couldn't have been stolen because no self-respecting thief would have spent the time stealing them.

But even if they had been $5000 cues then I would have sold them or tried to sell them. Upon TRYING to sell them if I had found out that they were stolen then I would have GIVEN them back to the owner and accepted whatever reward he chose to offer me whether it would have been a simple thanks or a little money. Although I PROBABLY would have refused the money if I were flush and taken it if I were broke.

 

[JB Cases]

Thanks for the laugh.

I gotta say, while I'm glad the cues are back in the hands of the rightful owner, this whole thread was pretty stipid from the onset.

Actually I sort of agree. For two reasons. One is that it's not the "christian" thing to do to gloat over other people's misfortune and misery.

Two is that this alerts anyone else to NOT try and contact Bill if they have cues that they suspect or know are from the stolen batch. Because now they know that Bill is coming to any meeting armed and with state troopers.

I would have kept it quiet and simply mentioned that two more cues had been recovered if anything at all.

 

[risky biz]

It would be more that he is supposed to give up 2000 that he never really gave up because he never had it, because of his own stipidity for accepting stolen property for payment of a gambling debt and then trying to extort the true owner instead of selling it to someone else... That is the stipid part...

Now he's also possibly giving up some of his free time because of his stipidity, right or wrong...

If you are going to talk to the original owner and hope for a reward don't admit that you knowingly received stolen property and you better be willing to accept whatever he offers you or be willing to go to jail.

The ethical thing to do would be to return the cue and accept any reward offered no matter how small.

The smart thing to do if you want to get at least $2000 is to sell them on ebay or in some pool hall for a little less than they're worth so the thought of them being stolen doesn't cross someones mind but the deal is good enough not to pass up.

The stipid thing to do is to try and sell it to the original owner, admit that you knew it was stolen property and refuse to accept the generous 10% of their value reward offered.

Jaden

No where in this thread that I've noticed has it been established that this Frost guy (I forgot the first name) knowingly accepted stolen property. The OP seems to have tried very hard to give that impression but is utilizing vague statements to do so which should attract the attention of several people here who consider themselves logical geniuses and etnically pure as the driven snow. Saying that it would be smart to sell them to someone else on E-Bay doesn't throw you in a very good light, I must say.

 

[JB Cases]

No where in this thread that I've noticed has it been established that this Frost guy (I forgot the first name) knowingly accepted stolen property. The OP seems to have tried very hard to give that impression but is utilizing vague statements to do so which should attract the attention of several people here who consider themselves logical geniuses and etnically pure as the driven snow. Saying that it would be smart to sell them to someone else on E-Bay doesn't throw you in a very good light, I must say.

At some point though he KNEW that he was in possession of stolen property. That's when the crime occurred on his part.

 

[risky biz]

Jeeze will you quit. #1 I had played that same guy MANY times over the years and knew him and his cues. He was a pool room acquaintance and the cues he used were shitty low end cues. They couldn't have been stolen because no self-respecting thief would have spent the time stealing them.

You were so sure they weren't stolen that you decided it would be a good idea to sell them as quickly as possible? OK. Whatever you say.

And a thief wouldn't steal them but some "stipid" person paid you $300 for them. OK again.

But even if they had been $5000 cues then I would have sold them or tried to sell them. Upon TRYING to sell them if I had found out that they were stolen then I would have GIVEN them back to the owner and accepted whatever reward he chose to offer me whether it would have been a simple thanks or a little money. Although I PROBABLY would have refused the money if I were flush and taken it if I were broke.

You didn't mention what you would do if you sold them for $5,000 then found out they were stolen. You would give the $5,000 to the victim, right? Because you didn't deserve the $5,000. Right?

 

[risky biz]

At some point though he KNEW that he was in possession of stolen property. That's when the crime occurred on his part.

Yes. A crime occurs when there is a violation of the letter of the law. But the law isn't justice.

 

[risky biz]

Unless you microchip the cue, I would never have known they were stolen if they came up for sale around here. Glad you got your cues back, John

That's kind of off-message here. A lot of logic supermen are insisting that this Frost guy "knew".

Scenario #1: Frost: "I'll put up my $2,000 against your stolen cues that are worth $2,000. I know they're stolen because I keep track of every stolen cue in North America." Cue Thief: "OK. Cool."

Scenario #2: Cue Thief: "Hey, Frost, let's play for your $2,000 against my stolen cues that are worth $2,000." Frost: "OK. Cool."

Scenario #3: Cue Thief: "Hey Frost, I lost but I don't have any money. Will you take these stolen cues in lieu of the money and then get the money from the guy they were stolen from?" Frost: "OK. Cool."

Sheesh.

 

[risky biz]

thanks ! what is funny the first criminals tried to sell me my cues back and got busted at cabellas! we met the second set of rocket builders at cabellas!and they got picked up. Robert frost out of ky. i offered him a 500.00 reward and he refused saying he wanted 2000.! that was all he could take! I let him know they were my property and i could just get them back. but he insisted on 2000 because that is what the sooo call guy he was gambling aginst lost!so i took my friends from the state police post and they took his car his phone and his cues. gave him a free stay ath the hotel ala cell block. and a couple felonys to roll with! AHH THE FUN OF EXTORTION! AND DRIVING ACROSS 2 STATE LINES TO COMIT A FELONY!

Say, Cornerstone- exactly where did this arrest for extortion take place? Which location of the state police are your friends assigned to?

 

[krelldog]

Spin it any way you want...Apparently the police recognize that a crime was commited. The perps knew they were in possesion of stolen property...and then coincidentally tried to sell it back to the original owner?And to boot- Throw in transporting across state lines? Moral of the story- If they had done the right thing-They wouldn't be facing several felony charges..locally and federally. The world of pool is unfortunately a very seedy place

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

Everyone knows right from wrong and everyone knows what the right thing to do in this situation was, if in fact everything happened exactly as stated. The people involved screwed up and now they are paying for it.....due process, plain and simple and they will take what ever punishment is given to them. I dont know anyone involved in this but I do know that poolplayers in general fall on hard times more than just about anyone. People do stupid things when they are desperate or when there is $$ involved and they dont think about the consequences of their actions. Not everyone has the liberty of a great paying job, $250K cue inventory, families with money.....etc and 99% of the time what ever little money someone makes playing pool is their sole means of income (not saying theft and malicious conduct is the way to go so all you people who like to quote and highlight save it for next time). What it all boils down to is if they knew the cues were stolen when they took them then they FD up, end of story and this thread could have stopped after the first page. Everyone likes to jump on the victims band wagon and crucify someone when in fact all they really know is what they read on the internet. Bill has no reason to lie and I have heard no ill will toward him from anyone in the cue/pool world but is there really any point in keeping this up? After 4000 views and over 100 posts (of pretty much the same thing) I think everyone realizes that these guys are not hardened criminals out to scam every little old lady they come across. It would seem as if they thought they could make some quick money but the state police proved otherwise and now its all in the hands of the prosecutor, court, jury or what have you. You would be hard pressed to find anyone that is a member of this forum that could call themselves a saint and has never done anything wrong or anything they regretted.....thats something for everyone to think about next time they are about to play the slander card.

Just for the record, im not defending these guys, their actions or anything else. I know from experience what its like to have stuff stolen just like a lot of people on here do. I delt with a situation like this a few years ago that was worth more than the two cues in question many many many times over and it very seldom ends well, even if you get your property back.

Another thing, and this is problem a dumb question but im no district attorney so can someone explain all this talk about crossing state lines? How is taking an item you didnt steal back to where it came from an offense? I would assume its because of the supposed extortion?

Lets keep this thread going so that post after post can say how stealing is wrong and thieves should be strung up and so..... Bill got his cues back, great thats the main thing and justice will take place but it needs to be with the right people and in a just way.

 

[JB Cases]

You were so sure they weren't stolen that you decided it would be a good idea to sell them as quickly as possible? OK. Whatever you say.

That's right, whatever I say. Because I am not the one trying to defend an extortionist.

Let's say I had a 99.99% confidence rating that the cues were not stolen based on the fact that I had known this guy for years and played against him many times.

And a thief wouldn't steal them but some "stipid" person paid you $300 for them. OK again.

No they weren't worth stealing and the person who bought them got a good deal. I took a hit on them because I just wanted them gone and to forget about getting stiffed.

You didn't mention what you would do if you sold them for $5,000 then found out they were stolen. You would give the $5,000 to the victim, right? Because you didn't deserve the $5,000. Right?

If I got stolen merchandise for a gambling debt and I sold it and found out later that it had been stolen then I would contact the original owner and work with him to recover the cues. I would return the $5000 to the person who paid me for the cues and consider the gambling debt still open.

Having fun with the hypotheticals? How about dealing with the real situation?

You man gets possession of some cues, calls the original owner and lets him know that he is in possession of cues that he knows were stolen from that person years prior and offers to "sell" them back, which is a crime. He is offered a $500 reward for returning them but then your hero decides to attempt to extort more money from the original owner which is also a crime.

He broke the law. He broke the law in both spirit and deed. Yeah it flat sucks to get stiffed and paid in stolen merchandise but that's the way it went down. The only injustice here is to the victim not the perpetrator.

The ONLY way to NOT be on the wrong side of the law and on the side of good ethics and good karma would have been to give the cues back without trying to extort any payment.

No grey area.

Many of us who have been around have faced plenty of situations similar to this. How you handle it shows your real character. I have taken the hit several times and would do it again so I don't have to be afraid to look anyone in the eyes when I see them.

 

[JB Cases]

That's kind of off-message here. A lot of logic supermen are insisting that this Frost guy "knew".

Scenario #1: Frost: "I'll put up my $2,000 against your stolen cues that are worth $2,000. I know they're stolen because I keep track of every stolen cue in North America." Cue Thief: "OK. Cool."

Scenario #2: Cue Thief: "Hey, Frost, let's play for your $2,000 against my stolen cues that are worth $2,000." Frost: "OK. Cool."

Scenario #3: Cue Thief: "Hey Frost, I lost but I don't have any money. Will you take these stolen cues in lieu of the money and then get the money from the guy they were stolen from?" Frost: "OK. Cool."

Sheesh.

Scenario #4:

I don't have the money take my cues they are worth a lot more. --- looks on the Interwebz to try and sell them and finds that the cues he has are (were) worth more and that they are probably from the ones stolen from Cornerstone. Calls Bill and attempts to shake him down for 2k by intelligently informing Bill that he is in possession of property and knows it is stolen merchandise.

 

[krelldog]

StakeHorse asked:

"Another thing, and this is problem a dumb question but im no district attorney so can someone explain all this talk about crossing state lines? How is taking an item you didnt steal back to where it came from an offense? I would assume its because of the supposed extortion?"

They knowingly recieved stolen goods and transported them over state lines...which wouldn't be hard since this very close to the Ohio/Kentucky border. So for the record: They received stolen goods.....transported stolen merchandise over state lines...and then tried to extort the original owner for payment(ransom) for the cues that he was the rightful owner in the first place.

My guess: They will wisely plead out and probably do 2-3 years in a state prison. This would hinge on their full cooperation with the authorities. If they still think this is nothing or a big joke.....the joke is on them.