2 more stolen cues recovered! Tank you God for stipid criminals

[kvinbrwr]

While we are on the subject of what a wrong guy Bill is.

I can think of at least one circumstance where Bill ended up with a stolen cue. Even though he had bought and paid for the cue, had money invested in the cue, he returned the cue to the rightful owner as soon as ownership was proven and was just plain out his investment. That is "doing the right thing", which is, by the way, acting in a lawful manner.

These guys "won" cues they knew were stolen. They didn't offer to return the cues which they had zero money invested in. They offered to sell them. Bill was quite clear with these guys and offered then a reward, which they refused and went on to extort Bill for money to gain his stolen property back. Crossed State lines to do it too. That's criminal activity and against the law.

Bill, when confronted with a similar situation, did the right thing. He is a right guy. These guys did the criminal thing, they are criminals.

Bill is out walking around a free and happy man.

These guys are miserable an in jail.

Bill has made 2 separate recoveries of cues stolen from his home in the same break and enter. Both times, the recoveries were made when he was contacted by the people in possession of the stolen articles looking to sell them back. I'm sorry, but that is just some funny stuff. Yeah, these are 2 good guys that were looking to do the right thing. LOL Bill offered these guys a $500 reward. When he offered them that, he knew that he could get the police involved and not have to pay these guys one thin dime, but that's not what he did. He offered to come out of pocket $500 in order to spare these rubes the pain and punishment they now have coming. They refused his generous (and unnecessary) offer. They made the criminal choice. Please explain to me again what a wrong guy Bill is.

Kevin

 

[brandoncook26]

There was no ignorance (well of the law). Bill clearly told these boobs the cues were his and they were stolen and the boobs acknowledged that they knew that (although that doesn't matter). Bill offered them a "reward" which is more than generous considering as the police soon proved, he had an absolute legal right to the cues with zero compensation due to the boobs that were holding them.

Kevin

Kevin I wasn't talking about Grassley. I was speaking to the two individuals "trying to do the right thing".

 

[kvinbrwr]

Kevin I wasn't talking about Grassley. I was speaking to the two individuals "trying to do the right thing".

Oh yeah I know. I was just saying that there was no way that these could could plead ignorance (if that was a defense which as you point out its not) because Bill explained to them the facts, and the law, before they decided to extort him.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[risky biz]

Both risky biz and bankpoolchicka indicated that in their minds (such as they may be) Bill left these cues lying around where they could be stolen so somehow in their twisted sense of justice Bill deserved to be ripped off? The cues were stolen in a break and enter from his home/place of business. In the criminal justification spin, how does he deserve this, by just owning the cues? or is anyone that doesn't store their stuff with Brinks just asking for it?
That just seems to be like the rapist claiming a gal was asking for it because she wore something pretty.

Thanks

Kevin

No one "deserves" to have their cue stolen, in any circumstance. No one in this thread has ever said anything resembling that.

 

[kvinbrwr]

No one "deserves" to have their cue stolen, in any circumstance. No one in this thread has ever said anything resembling that.

Bankpoolchicka's version of a break and enter on Bill's home - "p.s. what kind of person just leaves $5000 worth of cues just laying around for someone to steal??"

yours - "His thanks for offering to let you recover your cues, which you "stipidly" left randomly lying around where they could be stolen"

and a little more from you on the subject of breaking and entering (which is how the cues left Bill's possession) - "Yes, you missed the part where Robert Frost is supposed to give up $2,000 of his own money to compensate the "stipidity" of someone who leaves expensive cues lying around begging to be stolen."

See, to (silly) me this is you saying that Bill is asking for a theft by owning store inventory and leaving them "lying around" locked in his home and place of business.

 

[risky biz]

These guys "won" cues they knew were stolen.

Where has it been established that they knew the cues were stolen when they accepted them? Why do you have to put this spin on it to bolster your position? An inaccuracy repeated becomes a lie.

They didn't offer to return the cues which they had zero money invested in.

OK, so in your personal system of standards if someone else wins money in a wager it doesn't count as real money. Given those standards why should a tournament producer have any obligation to pay the winners of a pool tournament since it's wagering?

Wow.

 

[risky biz]

Bankpoolchicka's version of a break and enter on Bill's home - "p.s. what kind of person just leaves $5000 worth of cues just laying around for someone to steal??"

yours - "His thanks for offering to let you recover your cues, which you "stipidly" left randomly lying around where they could be stolen"

and a little more from you on the subject of breaking and entering (which is how the cues left Bill's possession) - "Yes, you missed the part where Robert Frost is supposed to give up $2,000 of his own money to compensate the "stipidity" of someone who leaves expensive cues lying around begging to be stolen."

See, to (silly) me this is you saying that Bill is asking for a theft by owning store inventory and leaving them "lying around" locked in his home and place of business.

You left out the part where you claim I said he deserved to get his cues stolen. Or does it not exist?

 

[mia]

Actually I sort of agree. For two reasons. One is that it's not the "christian" thing to do to gloat over other people's misfortune and misery.

Two is that this alerts anyone else to NOT try and contact Bill if they have cues that they suspect or know are from the stolen batch. Because now they know that Bill is coming to any meeting armed and with state troopers.

I would have kept it quiet and simply mentioned that two more cues had been recovered if anything at all.

While I agree with you, let's just say that it's 'stipid' to call someone else 'stipid' when you have the spelling ability of a 3 year old. But let's face it, this is just one of thousands of reasons Bill has given us over the years to laugh at something he has said or done.

Again... glad he got his cues back because theft is wrong. Period. But I just don't think Bill thinks clearly before posting some of the things he does.

 

[risky biz]

See, to (silly) me this is you saying that Bill is asking for a theft by owning store inventory and leaving them "lying around" locked in his home and place of business.

Well, I will agree that you're being silly.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Where has it been established that they knew the cues were stolen when they accepted them? Why do you have to put this spin on it to bolster your position? An inaccuracy repeated becomes a lie.



OK, so in your personal system of standards if someone else wins money in a wager it doesn't count as real money. Given those standards why should a tournament producer have any obligation to pay the winners of a pool tournament since it's wagering?

Wow.

Bill told them they were in possession of his stolen property when he offered them a reward. What they knew up to that point is guesswork and judging from their reaction after that point, I'd say I'm making a decent assumption. Regardless of what they knew up to the point where Bill informed them they were in possession of his stolen property, what do you feel was the right thing for them to do after they were informed?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Post #141
That about sums it up as well as anyone could Kevin.
Yet, certain people still want to argue, right from wrong.
I am not understanding that part.
Maybe explain it a couple of more times so it might sink in.

 

[kvinbrwr]

You left out the part where you claim I said he deserved to get his cues stolen. Or does it not exist?

Sorry me being silly again I'm sure, but to me you saying Bill keeping his business inventory locked on his private property was him leaving his inventory " lying around begging to be stolen." resembled someone indicating that you thought he deserved it. That would be a stupid thing to say and thanks for pointing out that wasn't what you were saying.

Just so I can understand you, what were you saying when you said he left them begging to be stolen?

Thanks again

Kevin

 

[kvinbrwr]

Post #141
That about sums it up as well as anyone could Kevin.
Yet, certain people still want to argue, right from wrong.
I am not understanding that part.
Maybe explain it a couple of more times so it might sink in.

Thanks man. I think its a decent example of "where you stand depends on where you sit" and I'm sure if these guys were my pals I might feel differently, but geez, Bill told them they were stolen and listed in a police report from the crime and offered them a reward. Please.

Like Bill, I'm in the business of buying and selling stuff, and its always possible to end up with an stolen article. When you do, there's a right thing and a wrong thing you can do. These guys did the wrong thing and that is way against the law and should be.

Have a great day

Kevin

 

[kvinbrwr]

Two is that this alerts anyone else to NOT try and contact Bill if they have cues that they suspect or know are from the stolen batch. Because now they know that Bill is coming to any meeting armed and with state troopers.

John

I can see how you would think that way because:
a) you are not stupid
b) you are not a criminal

However, the fact is, when the cues were originally stolen, Bill recovered most of them when the dummies that stole them attempted to sell them back to him (perhaps in the very same parking lot Bill suggested this time) and when it happened, Bill posted here at AZ about the recovery and how it took place, which didn't stop these two geniuses (in their gallant attempt to do the right thing). I fully expect some fool with his few remaining stolen cues (if any remain after these 2 sing in an attempt to make a deal) to get the brilliant idea to sell them back to Bill and for Bill to be on the other end of that phone call with a huge grin suggesting this same parking lot again.



Have a great one man,

Kevin

 

[RobertFrost]

My conscience is clear.....

Have you ever stuffed yourself to the gills on thanksgiving day....knowing the whole time how great that food taste? But immediately after you get done eating your like "man i shouldn't have done that" or have you ever done anything ethically wrong and immediately after said to yourself "man i shouldn't have done that".....well when those cuffs were around my hands, i didn't feel like that....I felt like i was doing the right thing...
Me and eric was offered more than $2000 for those cues several times, but from the moment we found out that they were stolen we tryed to find out who they were stolen from, and we didn't sell them because we didn't want to do to them what was done to us. we did a google search for stolen chris nitti cues and stolen mike bender cues, and through the help of the AZ forums....thats how we came in contact with the gentlemen we were to meet in michigan.
When we obtained the cues, we had absolutely no idea that they were stolen. All i knew was i had $2500 invested in them and i was flat broke. But when i contacted this gentlemen he did offer a $500 reward and i told him the whole story of what happened, i told him i had $2500 invested in these cues and i would take a $500 dummy loss for ending up with them and take $2000, knowing that the cues were worth alot more. He acted like this would not be a problem, he said he had to get a couple checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem. Make no mistake about it, regardless of whether i got paid for these cues....i was going to give them back to him, because they were worthless to me.
I am not a thief or a felon, i am a pool player....The march issue was over a suspended liscense...I have never been convicted of any crimes because i have not been involved in any. I don't consider myself your typical pool player, i don't drink or do any drugs, i don't even smoke cigarettes. i believe in God, Morals, Heaven and Hell..
So cornerstone, I didn't know i was getting stolen property, i didn't think from our conversations we were extorting you....I thought we were negotiating a deal to where you recovered your cues for a fair price and i was recovering some of my losses as well. I don't regret calling you, because my eyes have been opened, i am a better person today than i was a week ago for just being in that cell with 15 other guys and hearing their stories...I found out just how lucky I am to have a family that loves me and will do anything for me. Alot of those guys didn't have loved ones to call and help them out...but i was one of the lucky ones...One of the guys in that cell was all tatted up and him and his buddies were looking at 20 years or so and on his back it red "Only God can judge me" That statement is oh so true and going forward that is my motto.
Me and you both lost in this deal cornerstone and i apologize if i offended you.

 

[RobertFrost]

I don't forum battle so that will be my only post regarding this subject....Thanks guys...

 

[Scott Lee]

Robert...Regardless of your "outlook", you didn't do the right thing. You did not have anything "invested" in these cues. You got them in payment for a gambling debt. Gambling is always a risk...one way or another. Once you found out they were stolen, and decided to "return" them to their rightful owner, you should have done just that, and accepted a reward that was offered. You said you could have sold them to others for more money, but made the choice not to (that's a good thing for a 'moral' and 'spiritual' person to do)...so as to return them to Bill. You chose to try to 'negotiate' a higher 'reward', and found out the hard way that you weren't going to get it. You say you were going to return the cues, whether you got paid or not...that's what you should have done.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Have you ever stuffed yourself to the gills on thanksgiving day....knowing the whole time how great that food taste? But immediately after you get done eating your like "man i shouldn't have done that" or have you ever done anything ethically wrong and immediately after said to yourself "man i shouldn't have done that".....well when those cuffs were around my hands, i didn't feel like that....I felt like i was doing the right thing...
Me and eric was offered more than $2000 for those cues several times, but from the moment we found out that they were stolen we tryed to find out who they were stolen from, and we didn't sell them because we didn't want to do to them what was done to us. we did a google search for stolen chris nitti cues and stolen mike bender cues, and through the help of the AZ forums....thats how we came in contact with the gentlemen we were to meet in michigan.
When we obtained the cues, we had absolutely no idea that they were stolen. All i knew was i had $2500 invested in them and i was flat broke. But when i contacted this gentlemen he did offer a $500 reward and i told him the whole story of what happened, i told him i had $2500 invested in these cues and i would take a $500 dummy loss for ending up with them and take $2000, knowing that the cues were worth alot more. He acted like this would not be a problem, he said he had to get a couple checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem. Make no mistake about it, regardless of whether i got paid for these cues....i was going to give them back to him, because they were worthless to me.
I am not a thief or a felon, i am a pool player....The march issue was over a suspended liscense...I have never been convicted of any crimes because i have not been involved in any. I don't consider myself your typical pool player, i don't drink or do any drugs, i don't even smoke cigarettes. i believe in God, Morals, Heaven and Hell..
So cornerstone, I didn't know i was getting stolen property, i didn't think from our conversations we were extorting you....I thought we were negotiating a deal to where you recovered your cues for a fair price and i was recovering some of my losses as well. I don't regret calling you, because my eyes have been opened, i am a better person today than i was a week ago for just being in that cell with 15 other guys and hearing their stories...I found out just how lucky I am to have a family that loves me and will do anything for me. Alot of those guys didn't have loved ones to call and help them out...but i was one of the lucky ones...One of the guys in that cell was all tatted up and him and his buddies were looking at 20 years or so and on his back it red "Only God can judge me" That statement is oh so true and going forward that is my motto.
Me and you both lost in this deal cornerstone and i apologize if i offended you.

 

[jalapus logan]

Robert Frost is a really good guy, this mess is more than likely a misunderstanding. The same goes for Eric Denson, these 2 guys are stand up guys!! This so called POOL community, is a joke, here lets all write letters and send commisary to some dope dealer who gets caught, but these 2 guys who have never been in trouble before, Oh lets them have it!! WTH? And it sounds like the wrong guys are getting punished, where is Port Huron Bill?? And if you knew he stole the cues, 3 years ago, why haven't you prosecuted him yet?? Its not like pool players lay that low, I'm sure you could have found him. Just ask the real pool community what kind of guys these 2 are, they're nice guys (especially for this kind of lifestyle).

p.s. what kind of person just leaves $5000 worth of cues just laying around for someone to steal??

Indeed, I mean what kind of person would leave their house locked up and unattended in plain sight. That person should be shot. All of their personal effects just ripe for the pickin'. Hmmmm, what's your address by the way???

 

[jalapus logan]

Some of these responses are making me ashamed to say I'm involved with pool at all. I swear I have no idea how these people have made it this far in life.

You are right as usual my man...

 

[Jaden]

actually I will admit that what I do would greatly depend....

Jeeze will you quit. #1 I had played that same guy MANY times over the years and knew him and his cues. He was a pool room acquaintance and the cues he used were shitty low end cues. They couldn't have been stolen because no self-respecting thief would have spent the time stealing them.

But even if they had been $5000 cues then I would have sold them or tried to sell them. Upon TRYING to sell them if I had found out that they were stolen then I would have GIVEN them back to the owner and accepted whatever reward he chose to offer me whether it would have been a simple thanks or a little money. Although I PROBABLY would have refused the money if I were flush and taken it if I were broke.

On whether or not I believed that they were a)truly stolen b) the property of who I was offering to sell them to and c) how I acquired them...

If the first person I offer to sell them to claims they were stolen from him I would probably have to call b.s. I wouldn't want to call the odds on the first person I offer to sell them to actually being the owner, IF I sought them out without knowing that the cues were stolen.

If I thought they were just trying to get the cues for a hell of a better price, I'd just tell them to go pound sand and I'd sell them to someone else.

If I believed that they were the property of who I was trying to sell them to, I would return them.

If I paid for them out of my pocket I probably wouldn't be trying to sell them, I am notorious for never selling cues... but if I acquired them in return for an air barrel I would be much more likely even if I was iffy on the true status of them to give the suggested true owner the benefit of the doubt and accept the $500 reward offered.

I wouldn't refuse an offer of a reward as some suggested for the very nature of why a reward is offered. You offer a reward to REWARD good behavior. If someone acts in a right way and you reward them, it helps them and others to act in a good way in the future.

Jaden