Do you look at the cue ball or object ball when shooting?

It is possible to look at both the CB and OB at the same time.
When CB and OB are close to each other that seems to be the most natural.

On jacked up shots, shooting over an obstruction I favor the CB.

The longer the distance between CB and OB it is the OB.

It looks to me the higher your stance the more likely you are to look at the CB last.
 
JoeyA said:
Will Rodney's statement be on your NEW POOL INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO? If not, no biggee, I know you have no ax to grind.
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Yes sir. There a section on advanced fundamentals, and Rodney spends a few minutes talking about sighting and alignment. :)

alstl said:
Where did you hear Efren looks at the cue ball last?
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Rodney listed numerous players who look at the cue ball last during our discussion. Efren was on the list, as he and Rodney had discussed the same thing themselves recently.
 
JoeyA said:
Will Rodney's statement be on your NEW POOL INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO? If not, no biggee, I know you have no ax to grind.

...I just wonder if that is a matter of perspective such as, perhaps they look at the cue ball LAST, just before shooting the shot. (In other words, when they pull the trigger, they look at the object ball but they feel like they are "looking" at the cue ball last. There are many ways that people say things and when you ask them in different ways, you can sometimes get different answers...
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Joey, I agree with this, that maybe they check tip placement on the CB last before they fire but are actually looking at the OB DURING the stroke.

It's been mentioned that Souquet says he looks at the CB last but here are a couple of videos of him at the Mosconi Cup. In the first one at the 4:40 mark it seems clear he is looking at the OB during the stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4XH-sytO4w&feature=related

In this video at the 5:25 mark, they actually show a close up of Souquet's face on a break shot (a shot where it is not uncommon for some players to look at the CB) and it is obvious his eyes are looking up table at the rack and not down at the cue ball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkjDNbi01Q
 
It looks a little to me like he is following the stroke...

DogsPlayingPool said:
Joey, I agree with this, that maybe they check tip placement on the CB last before they fire but are actually looking at the OB DURING the stroke.

It's been mentioned that Souquet says he looks at the CB last but here are a couple of videos of him at the Mosconi Cup. In the first one at the 4:40 mark it seems clear he is looking at the OB during the stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4XH-sytO4w&feature=related

In this video at the 5:25 mark, they actually show a close up of Souquet's face on a break shot (a shot where it is not uncommon for some players to look at the CB) and it is obvious his eyes are looking up table at the rack and not down at the cue ball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkjDNbi01Q
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It looks to me like he is following the stroke through the CB and into the OB...

Jaden
 
JoeyA said:
Will Rodney's statement be on your NEW POOL INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO? If not, no biggee, I know you have no ax to grind.

I have wondered however, as Ralf Souquet has mentioned to me as well, that he looks at the cue ball last. I just wonder if that is a matter of perspective such as, perhaps they look at the cue ball LAST, just before shooting the shot. (In other words, when they pull the trigger, they look at the object ball but they feel like they are "looking" at the cue ball last. There are many ways that people say things and when you ask them in different ways, you can sometimes get different answers.

Anyway, this is always an interesting subject. Looking forward to your video with so many champions making contributions. Your computer graphics capabilities have always been astounding. Now that you've got the champions explaining things in your video, I think you will have an even bigger winner on your hands.
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I think this is a pretty good and solid explanation.
I am reminded of something Buddy told me years and years ago. "Hoss, all the good uns stay down, follow through, and watch the ball hit the back of the pocket. Them that don't always develope inconsistency problems"!
I believe this to be very, very good advice. once we learn to do this, it becomes much easier to ID problems and consistency problems.
However when close to balls, I mean very close I feel most watch the cue ball more than on a long shot or thin hits
JMO!
 
JoeyA said:
Will Rodney's statement be on your NEW POOL INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO? If not, no biggee, I know you have no ax to grind.

I have wondered however, as Ralf Souquet has mentioned to me as well, that he looks at the cue ball last. I just wonder if that is a matter of perspective such as, perhaps they look at the cue ball LAST, just before shooting the shot. (In other words, when they pull the trigger, they look at the object ball but they feel like they are "looking" at the cue ball last. There are many ways that people say things and when you ask them in different ways, you can sometimes get different answers.

Anyway, this is always an interesting subject. Looking forward to your video with so many champions making contributions. Your computer graphics capabilities have always been astounding. Now that you've got the champions explaining things in your video, I think you will have an even bigger winner on your hands.
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Jeff Carter said each shot is different. which ever u decide to look at last, u need to be 100% committed.
I've always looked at the cb last. I took a mental image of the ob and aimed with my tip on the cb. doing this,I always had the cb on a string. But I occasionally missed long hard shots. Now I look at the ob on the long shots last and it seams to help.
All in all I believe u have better cb control looking at the cb last. and better pocketing power looking at the ob last.
 
Magyar19 said:
Ok, I thought everyone looked at the object ball until tonight. But I just got back from my friend's house and I was talking about how I have trouble drawing the ball. He watched me shoot and said I was elevating my cue at the last second. I said something about it being hard to aim my stick on such a thin part of the cue ball while not looking at it and he looked at me like I was crazy and said I should look at the cue ball. So I did that and it turns out I can draw the cueball but now I can't make the shots since my eyes aren't on the object ball! I guess it will just take practice.
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A little while back, a young fellow in St. Louis was saying, "John Schmidt looks at the CB last."

Later, a very accomplished player here asked me, "Do you think that's true? I think there may be some merit to that."

And I said, "Well, that goes against everything I've ever learned about the game, but I'll ask him at the Derby."

And so, I see John in the straight pool room earlier this year and say, "John, someone in St. Louis is saying you say you should look at the CB last."

And he says, "Lou, you are a good enough player to known better than that."

And I would like to think I am.

Lou Figueroa
some days :-)
 
Pete Horn (RIP) looked at the cueball last. However, he didn't realize it until it was pointed out. Sometimes it's best not to know.
 
looking at the cueball last is for suckers.

no world class player looks at the cueball last. and if they say they do, they're lying.

on a small number of shots it might be beneficial to look at the cueball last, but that's it.

it's a sucker strategy lol.
 
I worked some with Rodney.

nathandumoulin said:
Eften Reyes and Rodney Morris look at the cue ball last (Rodney told me this personally). There is no right or wrong. It's a question of preference.
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He definitely looks at the object ball last. I saw it first hand over and over.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding about what he said or how he said it.

It seems that looking at the object ball works the best. There are some very good players that supposedly look at the cue ball last. I need a camera and see it with my own eyes. It's very difficult to shoot well like that though i'm sure it can be done with alot of work.

Most of the players that I have given lessons to that were looking at the cue ball last shot alot better once they were converted to looking at the object ball last. But there are alot of things that also go with seeing the shot right but closing your eyes is not an option.

looking at the cue ball last is close to closing your eyes. the shot can be steered a little this way or that while you are stroking. Just like throwing a spear you are looking at the target only. When aiming a shot we are just throwing the spear underhand. Only with a pool shot we can get the eyes in alot better position.

No big deal but that is what I've seen in many years of playing and teaching.
I don't go too much by what I hear. Seeing is believing.
 
genomachino said:
Maybe there was a misunderstanding about what he said or how he said it.

It seems that looking at the object ball works the best. There are some very good players that supposedly look at the cue ball last. I need a camera and see it with my own eyes. It's very difficult to shoot well like that though i'm sure it can be done with alot of work.
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Funny you say that, as I recorded not only him saying it, but also filmed a second camera close up on his eyes while he shot. I'm not mistaken. :p
 
genomachino said:
He definitely looks at the object ball last. I saw it first hand over and over.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding about what he said or how he said it.

It seems that looking at the object ball works the best. There are some very good players that supposedly look at the cue ball last. I need a camera and see it with my own eyes. It's very difficult to shoot well like that though i'm sure it can be done with alot of work.

Most of the players that I have given lessons to that were looking at the cue ball last shot alot better once they were converted to looking at the object ball last. But there are alot of things that also go with seeing the shot right but closing your eyes is not an option.

looking at the cue ball last is close to closing your eyes. the shot can be steered a little this way or that while you are stroking. Just like throwing a spear you are looking at the target only. When aiming a shot we are just throwing the spear underhand. Only with a pool shot we can get the eyes in alot better position.

No big deal but that is what I've seen in many years of playing and teaching.
I don't go too much by what I hear. Seeing is believing.
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I look at the OB last, specifically focused on the contact point. I want to see the CB actually contact that point (it's how I know I hit it the way I wanted, or if I need to adjust something or have a stroke error). I usually follow the OB into the pocket, but lately I've taken to following the CB's track after contact. It's helped me with my control, but I'm not sure it's a lock yet...Ewa Mataya said it best during an interview many years ago...does a pitcher look at the baseball as it leaves his hand, or is he locked onto the target he's throwing at? Says it all for me.:wink:
 
I'm not so sure...

When throwing a spear, you look at your target.
In martial arts, you look at your target.

But the target isn't the OB, its the cue ball you're actually hitting. It seems to me, if I'm looking at the contact point on the OB last, which if at an angle from my line of aim, would subconsciously lend itself towards having my stroke head in that angled direction.

I've always played looking at CB last. I recently took lessons from a qualified instructor, and have since been looking at OB ball last. I seem to miss and make both ways pretty consistently. My stroke's still inconsistent though, so no surprise there.

From Jaden's earlier post regarding Ralf Souquet:

"It looks to me like he is following the stroke through the CB and into the OB..."

This also rings true, as in baseball, you watch the ball all the way in, until impact with the bat for the most accurate swing.

Interesting thread....could it possibly come down to "different strokes for different folks", or is there a definitive, clear cut advantage to one or the other?
 
Hitting a baseball or golf ball isn't the same thing here. You need precision just to make contact with those balls, but accuracy after contact is a general direction/distance. In pool, you need to PRECISELY deliver the cueball to a PRECISE point. You can address the cue ball with your peripheral vision and hit it with the required accuracy. Plus, you're making microadjustments mid-stroke (whether you believe it or not, it's happening) that steers your stroke into the proper point/attitude/angle on the CB, assuming you've got a good repeatable stroke to begin with.
 
True...

West Point 1987 said:
Hitting a baseball or golf ball isn't the same thing here. You need precision just to make contact with those balls, but accuracy after contact is a general direction/distance. In pool, you need to PRECISELY deliver the cueball to a PRECISE point. You can address the cue ball with your peripheral vision and hit it with the required accuracy. Plus, you're making microadjustments mid-stroke (whether you believe it or not, it's happening) that steers your stroke into the proper point/attitude/angle on the CB, assuming you've got a good repeatable stroke to begin with.
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But delivering the CB to a precise location is only half the battle. Accurately hitting the CB to apply the precise amount of spin comes into play as well. Am I just over-estimating the amount of precision needed? Is that something that takes care of itself with a repeatable stroke?
 
Very good Explaination........

West Point 1987 said:
Hitting a baseball or golf ball isn't the same thing here. You need precision just to make contact with those balls, but accuracy after contact is a general direction/distance. In pool, you need to PRECISELY deliver the cueball to a PRECISE point. You can address the cue ball with your peripheral vision and hit it with the required accuracy. Plus, you're making microadjustments mid-stroke (whether you believe it or not, it's happening) that steers your stroke into the proper point/attitude/angle on the CB, assuming you've got a good repeatable stroke to begin with.
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Just common sense.............pretty simple...........
 
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