Jump shots, massé shots and house rules.

And this is why a lot of pool players, APA included dont get any better. I alway found the sign to apply to beginners as well. I would have pulled out the Predator Air, fired in the jump shot, slammed my remaining beverage, and went to the nearest pool hall that doesnt give a shit about a jump or masse.
 
Idiot sign

I always figured the sign was there for the idiots, you know the guy, he attempts a masse' about 300 times (from the same spot) in an effort to impress this girl he just met. In this case I don't blame any room or bar for pointing to the sign and telling the idiot to stop.

I have never been hassled for either a jump or masse' in a bar or a room in the context of playing. I would ignore the sign and shoot! If I get tossed then I make future decisions accordingly. The business owner is free to make his choices and I am free to make mine.

Happy Strokes !!
 
As long as the rules were clear, I would play in a tournament that did not allow jump shots or massés, but I agree with you that those rules are really intended for the lower level players who don't know how to execute these shots. Of course, the perfect lockup safeties take these shots out of play, anyway.

What bothers me more are ambiguous or contradictory rules.

Good luck! Hope you get something set up.
 
I played in a small weekly tournament a month ago. I won't name the place because I don't want to smear anyone. I am posting this because I am interested in the opinions of the forum members (even black-balled).

During a match with one of the employees, she played what I considered to be a weak safety. It was easily makeable and can be regarded by most of us as a "routine" jump shot.

I went to my case and began putting my Predator Air jump cue together.
She immediately came over and told me that jump shots are not allowed under any circumstances, then she directed me to the sign on the wall. You know the one. It states in no uncertain terms that Jump & massé shots are not allowed, food and drinks are not allowed on the tables, etc.

Well, I politely told her that I have been playing pool for 20+ years, and in my experience, those signs are usually meant for beginners who ruin the cloth by trying to scoop the ball, etc.

I also explained that I was interested in running a tournament there, and if they were that strict about it I needed to know because it would affect my decision.

She said that if they caught me making a jump shot, there would be no warning and I would have been escorted out. She felt that she was doing me a favor, and I suppose in her way she was. Good lookin' out, I guess.

I then had a conversation with one of the owners, and told him about my desire to run a tournament there. He was all for it, and told me to let him know when.
I then explained that I cannot have a tournament with a fifty-dollar entry fee, then tell the strong regional players that not only can they NOT jump, they can't massé either?

I don't know about you, but in today's world of nine-ball, these are essential aspects of the game, and to take them away can be crippling. Forcing everyone to kick in a tournament-setting seems unreasonable to me.

I tried explaining that people who play in my tournaments are very strong.
To put this into context, this place holds APA events very often, so their mindset is APA-based...whatever that means.
I take it to mean they are accustomed to dealing with pool shooters who can't play very well or don't know very much. I know there are thousands of super-strong players who also play APA, but the bulk of them are usually one or two notches above beginner-level, at least in my experiences. Add to that the fact the jump cues are NOT allowed in the APA, and the decision for the house is pretty clear-cut.

He told me that if he allowed people to make jump shots in my event, then he runs the risk of having some of his regulars see this and attempt to do it themselves, resulting in damaged felt, etc.

So, I have decided that if he won't budge on this issue I won't have an event there.

I also thought that "The Sign", which takes on many variations in many rooms (some include No Gambling, No Money on table, No Cussing) was usually meant for beginners.

So what do you all think?
I know it's their house and their rules, and they can do whatever they want, but do you think they are being reasonable?

Since they are fairly new (less than 5 years) and are mainly an APA house, perhaps they are not accustomed to higher-caliber players and their skill sets?

Truth be told, they may not even care to have an event like mine because they do great business anyway and have a steady stream of clients, so perhaps this is all moot.

Just curious...let me know.
I just hate when they dont allow you to do masse and jump!
 
I know the room your speaking of and I only go there for the Major APA events and our Monthly Tour Stop when it happens to rotate there. Other than that I don't set foot in the place for the very reason that your posting about.

I jump all the time as neccesary, and do more curve shots than masse' but occassionally the need may arise and I personally like the option to do whatever is required in the game.

I've never ripped a cloth on anyone's table, and quite honestly never ever came close. So I'm just saying.

But, all being said we do have to respect the house rules. I just choose to play elsewhere.

Black Cat :cool:
 
Just about every place I've been in has one of those signs. I've always just ignored them and never had a problem, but I don't shoot jump shots or masse shots very often either.

I can just imagine being in a tournament, hiking the butt end of my cue up, and having a couple players start yelling "Hey, hey, you can't do that! Look at the sign!"
 
Just about every place I've been in has one of those signs. I've always just ignored them and never had a problem, but I don't shoot jump shots or masse shots very often either.

I can just imagine being in a tournament, hiking the butt end of my cue up, and having a couple players start yelling "Hey, hey, you can't do that! Look at the sign!"

Trust me in this location, their not Joking. Owners a real nice guy, played APA for years. But, this is one rule they won't budge on period.

BC
 
Yes, the green room in dundalk and we are having a ten ball tourn. this sat the 26th. jumping will be allowed.
 
I know the room your speaking of and I only go there for the Major APA events and our Monthly Tour Stop when it happens to rotate there. Other than that I don't set foot in the place for the very reason that your posting about.

I jump all the time as neccesary, and do more curve shots than masse' but occassionally the need may arise and I personally like the option to do whatever is required in the game.

I've never ripped a cloth on anyone's table, and quite honestly never ever came close. So I'm just saying.

But, all being said we do have to respect the house rules. I just choose to play elsewhere.

Black Cat :cool:

I operate a pro shop that is located inside Bull Shooters (Arizona's largest pool room). I sell jump cues inside my shop. I also build, and sell, my own brand of jump cue (working on two tonight). I'm also an instructor, and I quite often have to teach students how to jump and masse' the ball.

Now Bull Shooters has the "no jumps/ no masse's" signs all over the place, and they pretty well enforce the rule, too, but then they do make exceptions for tournaments and some leagues. However, here's the interesting part: it wouldn't bother me if Bull Shooters didn't make those exceptions. I don't think they really owe me, or anyone else, the privledge of being an exception to a standing rule just because I know how to perform a certain shot without ruining the cloth. There is almost always a kick shot available in any situation - and if not - oh, well.

My point is this: I would not stop frequenting a good place just because I didn't agree with all of their rules.

Roger
 
Jump/masse

I've got that sign in the pool room. If I remember correctly, they give it to you when they give you a poolroom business license. Seriously, though, in most cases it is just to slow down the novices who don't have a clue and will ruin your tables before you can instruct them in the proper method. IMO, if the BCA world standardized rules says it's a legal shot, then it's a legal shot. We sell lots of jump cues, and they get used regularly-instruction is the key. I also have a sign that says "$5.00 fine for whining". Sadly, nobody pays any attention to that one either.
 
Yes, the green room in dundalk and we are having a ten ball tourn. this sat the 26th. jumping will be allowed.
Sweet! I will defnitely be there for that one!
Green Room is a nice big room with great food and drink and lots of tables.

Nice tournament venue.
 
Yes, the green room in dundalk and we are having a ten ball tourn. this sat the 26th. jumping will be allowed.
Can you please share more info on this? I will be in Charm City for the Holidays and would love to get all the moneys.
but that never happens. :sad:
 
Can you please share more info on this? I will be in Charm City for the Holidays and would love to get all the moneys.
but that never happens. :sad:
I heard about it through word-of-mouth and have not gotten an email or a flyer.

K-Dub and I will be there.

You might have to call the room for more info.
 
Owners can make their own rules! Some are smart & some are &*%%

Forgive me for not reading your entire post. Generically speaking, the owner of any pool room has a right to make whatever rules he wants in his room. That really isn't rocket science.

Owners can make their own rules! Some are smart & some are &*%%:(

When I was a regular at Castle Billiards in E.Rutherford NJ The owner (Rich Sacco) was very smart, when he new he was going to Change the cloth He told the new upcomming players they can practice jump shots & masse shots. Then he told us no charge :thumbup: for time we practiced those 2 things.

Now thats the difference between a bad/owner & a good smart/owner :-)
 
I don’t know you, so I don’t know if you’re an elitist or not. I don’t know if you meant to come off as an elitist, but parts of the original post made it sound like you were. The comment you made about how you told the person that you had played for 20+ years and signs like that were just for beginners, to me, is the equivilant of a celeb dropping the “do you know who I am?” From what you said, it seems like the bar is doing quite well. I understand your frustration about not being able to jump and masse. I play in a house league that does not allow those. In the beginning I wasn’t happy I couldn’t do those shots, but you just get over it and get on with it. If being able to jump and masse are the make or break issues for your tournament, then find a place that will let you do that. Coming on here and “complaining” about the bar not letting you is like you saying “how dare you turn me down.” I think we all know why the “no gambling” signs are up. So the place can’t be held liable if the cops bust people gambling there. One of the places I play at are ok with people gambling even though they have a sign up. You just have to know the place your playing at. On a side note, good luck in your tourney. 
 
Well, I politely told her that I have been playing pool for 20+ years, and in my experience, those signs are usually meant for beginners who ruin the cloth by trying to scoop the ball, etc.

I also explained that I was interested in running a tournament there, and if they were that strict about it I needed to know because it would affect my decision.

Did you think you could coerce them into allowing special rules for you by threatening to withhold your theoretical "better player" tournament?
 
I'm only guessing but I doubt they would have escorted you out had you unknowingly jumped a ball. I think she exaggerated the point so you knew that even the better players would not be allowed to jump.

The largest pool hall in Wisconsin with 50 tables does not allow you to jump either. The owner is a pool player but is very strict about this issue.

I didn't understand at first but I began to realize that he doesn't cater to fellow pool players as much as he is trying to run a business. That's his rule and if people don't like it they don't have to play there.

Also, tours come in for events and it seems that most of the events they still enforce the "no jumping" rule. As long as the players know about it beforehand, I think its fair.

It seems that the progression of top events will become "no jump cues" not for fear of ruining the equipment, but because jumping is too simple at that level. I guess that's a separate discussion about jumping with full cues vs jump cues.
 
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