Jump shots, massé shots and house rules.

ignomirello said:
Owners can make their own rules! Some are smart & some are &*%%:(


Now thats the difference between a bad/owner & a good smart/owner :-)
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Some are smart and some are *%%$# from who's perspective? Some are good owners and some are bad owners from who's perspective? Yours, naturally. I'm pretty sure they are all considered smart rules from the owner's perspective.

Whether an owner is successful or unsuccessful, the profits or losses are all on them.

Ain't no one gonna give a rat's ass about them one way or the other when it comes to the cold hard green backs. So all that matters, is if it's a smart rule from their perspective.

While the 9 ballers with their jump sticks are out there smashing the equipment, the owner is in the back room figuring this stuff out from a pocketbook perspective, a where do you draw the line perpective, and an overall business perspective.

It doesn't end with jump shots either. It's language, dress, actions, food, drinks and smoking near the tables, parking, gathering outside, ID's at the door, and on and on .....

Bottom line, cold but true, and any owner knows this. If he's wrong, business numbers will show that in his books, if he's right, that will also show. What the customers whine about ... it don't matter.

ps Sorry I forgot the biggest news flash. Poolrooms don't make their money from pool players. In fact, quite the opposite.
 
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Black-Balled said:
As you know, I am very smart and know many words ... but I can see how owners would be hesitamnt to change their minds.
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I thinked I was smrt 2 untils I readed that werd. You are smrtererest.


3andstop said:
the profits or losses are all on them [owners].
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "exchange your driver's license for a rack" procedure a lot of places I've seen use. It's simple, you tear the cloth, you buy it. You run away and hey, they've got your name, address, and a picture. The police find that kind of info very helpful for tracking people down.
 
Ghosst said:
I thinked I was smrt 2 untils I readed that werd. You are smrtererest.




I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "exchange your driver's license for a rack" procedure a lot of places I've seen use. It's simple, you tear the cloth, you buy it. You run away and hey, they've got your name, address, and a picture. The police find that kind of info very helpful for tracking people down.
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Great in theory .. we always took DL in the room I had, but in reality, go try and collect the 500 bucks for new cloth.

You gotta hire a lawyer, (this is not a crime btw, so no cops) ( in order for it to be a crime, it, by statue, has to include the element of "with intent" to cause damage. This you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. ) Since the tear was accidental, it is a purely civil matter.

So, find them, get a lawyer, sue, take time to go to court. Then Hurray .. you win! What do you get? A judgment! Go buy cloth with "a judgment". Nope ... get a sheriff ... blah blah ... and on and on. For 500 bucks? GOOD LUCK. Oh and BTW .. what are you doing with their property? Ya know, their drivers license. Return it before you get arrested for larceny. Because you took it with "intent" to deprive them of it, if something happened. LMAO
 
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I'm two sided on this.

One side: Have you suggested to them that you may be allowed to place a sacrifical piece of cloth underneath the ball before a jump shot is attempted? The opponents are bound to not like this, feeling that any modification to the state of the table is always to their disadvantage, completely irreversible, and grounds for a scape goat upon their mistakes there-after for the remainder of the match.

I am a jumper and I love my shallow masse's.

Other side: There are a lot of games in cue sports where not only is jumping and masse's not allowed, but hitting the ball too hard is a foul. Also, it is HARD to jump on a full ball on a bar table, especially with bar equipment. I've never been able to do it, because most of the ones around here are plywood and not slate.

Bars always end up miffing me somehow, be it the equipment, the attitudes, the close-mindedness, the need for beginners to always interrupt and explain to you how to play pool, and especially the rules. I just try to stay away from them now. I still will go if I don't feel like driving to my closest pool hall, but I usually revert to the mindset of screwing around.
 
briankenobi said:
I don’t know you, so I don’t know if you’re an elitist or not. I don’t know if you meant to come off as an elitist, but parts of the original post made it sound like you were. .... 
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I know him. He's not an elitist at all...very accepting of others, fair as an opponent and a TD too and a sexy biatchtoo
 
risky biz said:
Did you think you could coerce them into allowing special rules for you by threatening to withhold your theoretical "better player" tournament?
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No, that won't do.
Frankly, they don't need my little tournament at all.
They do great business and the tournament at their venue would actually be doing me and other players a favor by having it in such a nice place.

Oh well, there are other rooms...:)
 
briankenobi said:
I don’t know you, so I don’t know if you’re an elitist or not. I don’t know if you meant to come off as an elitist, but parts of the original post made it sound like you were. The comment you made about how you told the person that you had played for 20+ years and signs like that were just for beginners, to me, is the equivilant of a celeb dropping the “do you know who I am?” From what you said, it seems like the bar is doing quite well. I understand your frustration about not being able to jump and masse. I play in a house league that does not allow those. In the beginning I wasn’t happy I couldn’t do those shots, but you just get over it and get on with it. If being able to jump and masse are the make or break issues for your tournament, then find a place that will let you do that. Coming on here and “complaining” about the bar not letting you is like you saying “how dare you turn me down.” I think we all know why the “no gambling” signs are up. So the place can’t be held liable if the cops bust people gambling there. One of the places I play at are ok with people gambling even though they have a sign up. You just have to know the place your playing at. On a side note, good luck in your tourney. 
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You are right...I do come off as an elitist in my post, and can see where it could be interpreted that way.

But as far as the "do you know who I am" analogy...that is inaccurate.

I felt that she, or the owners, should be able to recognize...or appreciate that the person trying a legal shot with legal equipment knows what they are doing...or knows what they are talking about.

Our conversation was not contentious by any means...I was just taken aback by the whole "You'll be escorted out" idea...which seemed a bit much.

Yes, yes, I know it's their house and their rules, but it does not hurt to ask if exceptions would be made for better players in a tournament setting.

And coming on here and complaining is inaccurate as well. I use the forum to ask for feedback from the thousands of members with varied levels of experience and skill. Some opinions are valued, others are not, but that is for me to filter out as I see fit.
 
Just because someone's an experienced player with years behind them doing jump shots doesn't mean they won't damage the cloth. They do it all the time. Some room owners don't like guys putting burn marks on the cloth (either from the phenolic tip or the cue ball itself); you still get tiny holes in the cloth where the edge of the phenolic tip hits the table (usually shows up later). Full masse shots and jumping balls closer than about 4 inches are virtually impossible to do without contacting the cloth. The majority of places won't say anything if you do it in a game or tournament, but even the most hard core owners will wince and maybe come your way if you line up and start nailing jump shots as a drill. It costs a lot to recover your tables; a lot of guys start jumping (especially the novices) and you're out more money in the long run.

Once I had an owner stop me when I elevated my cue to masse around a half ball (really just a wrinkle) during a tournament...I asked him where he drew the line on what makes it a masse, he replied elevation above the shoulder (this was a BCA certified instructor, no less!). As most of us know, you can do almost anything without having to elevate above the shoulder. This is a guy who also made everyone break from inside the box, because too many cueballs were ending up on the floor (his 14 year old son was the biggest violator). The upside of mickey mouse rules is that those owners tend to have better maintained equipment--better table installs, cleaner cloth/balls, etc.
 
Take into consideration that owners that put the 'No Jumping or Masse' signs might own their own tables and they figure taking some preventative measures to extend the life of the cloth can save them some money. This is usually done by an owner that does not know jump shots and masses well. It is also done by owners that know that their customers will tear up some cloth.
Or they might not own the tables at all and have to put the sign up because the vendors tell them to. (I know a place where this is the case)
If you ask beforehand if jumping or masse shots are allowed, even if you seen the sign, you will get your answer whether or not that rule applies to beginners or everyone. Be happy with the answer either way because you either get to jump, or you are being treated just as well as everyone else that comes to his place to use his tables.
 
3andstop said:
Great in theory .. we always took DL in the room I had, but in reality, go try and collect the 500 bucks for new cloth.
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I was referring more to the idea of tearing the cloth and walking out on the bill. As far as a hall; they can make any rules they want and you have to abide by them, or play somewhere else. When I lived in Europe, you had to leave your passport for the hotel room, even though it was paid for by my company. It's normal to me.
 
No jumping or masse shots is not that uncommon a rule and is not unreasonable if that's the way ownership wants it. Wouldn't stop me from playing there.

That said, the more sensible rule is no practicing jump shots. But during tournaments or the off occasion they come up in a match it's allowed.

I'm not a big fan of the jump shot but frankly I would think someone who owns a jump cue is less likely to damage the equipment than some banger casually taking a stab at it with a full length cue. Nonetheless, rules are rules and if you don't like them you are free to take your business elsewhere. But keep in mind that if the owner has these rules in place to protect the equipment, that's not a bad thing for me as a customer that he cares about the playability of his tables.
 
Hey, take a jump shot or masse shot away from me I will have many other shots to fill in that type of gap. I am a trick shot artist lol ;)

I can see where places are coming from when they post signs saying "No jump or masse". from what I have seen in the past if you give a not so great player a jump cue or they attempt a masse, most of the time that tables gonna take some damage.

Its extremely hard for a room owner to allow this because not all players that come through their doors are good players.
 
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