I do a lot of repairs and I must say that straight shafts are very rare. I might find one shaft out of 100 that is dead straight (within 3 thousands). Even high dollar cues are in this category. Most butts of cues have moved in a say a 5 year period. So how long does it take to make a shaft to keep them straight. I have personally heard from some of the US manufactures that it is the amount of cuts that will keep a shaft straight, even done in one day. I heard this getting my Sledgehammer mass produced here in the US. I can say from experience that this is false. I have heard that soaking the shaft wood in dangerous chemicals will stop movement. I tried this 20 years ago and it is not a good thing to do. Stabilizing chemicals were designed to go under a finish I believe because it irritates some people's skin. I hope nobody is still using these products anymore, 20 years ago I developed a rash on my bridge finger from the chemical. I have heard that laminated shafts do not move and fiber glass coated shafts also do not move. These shafts are in the same category as all shafts about 1 out of a hundred are dead straight. So my question is how long does it take to make a shaft that will stay straight though out the life of a cue. Or is it impossible. I have heard from just about every customer that has brought in work that his cue is straight but if they are spun between centers the real deal is discovered. A pool table roll is very deceiving, the only real test is between centers and most cue makers cannot get a pin in the center for an accurate test, and the shaft thread side is the biggest joke I have ever seen as far as a concentric 60 degree bevel. Some one might say you don't need this but without it the only way to face off a shaft is in a lathe grabbing it where marks can be accidentally made. Facing off a cue is something that will be done many times during the life of the cue. Wood absorbs moisture at the open end of the threads, all of them at some time or other will move and need facing to keep the straight concentric tip to bumper tool for making balls. Don't need a dead straight cue, then it don't matter.
How long does it take to make a shaft?
- Thread starter gulyassy
- Start date
wtf do you know!?
hahaha
hahaha
how bout a little pool for a few dimes, ha ha ha
Not being a cuemaker, I cannot really proffer an opinion. I am, however, very interested in the results of this thread.
I have heard of people who cut down in a day and I watched the TAR video with Ernie G. where he had what seemed like 200 barrels full of shafts the he makes one turn to every 100 years (a little facetious but you get the point).
I have heard of people who cut down in a day and I watched the TAR video with Ernie G. where he had what seemed like 200 barrels full of shafts the he makes one turn to every 100 years (a little facetious but you get the point).
come on over I can play right now, my house my rules.
Bike ride first! I gotta be able to hit the post for the pool set!
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Great subject, Mike!
I, too, repair a lot of cues (I also build a few), and I have never seen a "perfectly" straight shaft, and I don't think I ever will. A few years ago, I made that very statement to a customer who owned a SW cue, and he told me that both of his shafts were perfectly straight. I asked him to prove it to me, so we walked over and rolled them on a pool table and there they did indeed look straight. But then I asked him to kneel down and look at the light under the shafts as they were rolled, and it was then very obvious to him that his shafts were not perfect. (As you said, Mike, rolling cues on a pool table is not the best way to test for straightness, but when viewed right, it can tell a story.)
Now I'll be looking forward to replies to Mike's question of, Is it even POSSIBLE to make a perfectly straight shaft? Personally, I think it is (within 3-thousandths, that is), but will it stay that straight forever?
Roger
I, too, repair a lot of cues (I also build a few), and I have never seen a "perfectly" straight shaft, and I don't think I ever will. A few years ago, I made that very statement to a customer who owned a SW cue, and he told me that both of his shafts were perfectly straight. I asked him to prove it to me, so we walked over and rolled them on a pool table and there they did indeed look straight. But then I asked him to kneel down and look at the light under the shafts as they were rolled, and it was then very obvious to him that his shafts were not perfect. (As you said, Mike, rolling cues on a pool table is not the best way to test for straightness, but when viewed right, it can tell a story.)
Now I'll be looking forward to replies to Mike's question of, Is it even POSSIBLE to make a perfectly straight shaft? Personally, I think it is (within 3-thousandths, that is), but will it stay that straight forever?
Roger
Mike, check out these 2 videos and let me know what you think. :wink:
Make sure to click Show More to read his description. He says the butt and shaft need to be realigned.
Before
www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7DAs38lpEM
After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zct3jvpAYhM
Make sure to click Show More to read his description. He says the butt and shaft need to be realigned.
Before
www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7DAs38lpEM
After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zct3jvpAYhM
But at what point does 'not perfect' produce a negative influence on performance?
As measuring devices become more accurate, more flaws are exposed. Doesn't mean the user will notice any difference.
Forgot to ask you, Mike. We doin road bikes or mountain bikes?!
As measuring devices become more accurate, more flaws are exposed. Doesn't mean the user will notice any difference.
Forgot to ask you, Mike. We doin road bikes or mountain bikes?!
I once saw an old Balabushka shaft that had a big knurl right in the middle of the shaft and I told the customer that would really make that shaft prone to warping. He then told me the age of the shaft which was about about 30 years, and who made it and he rolled it on the table and it was just about dead straight. That is the only shaft I have seen with a lot of age that was straight. And Balabushka did not have the magic formula for straight shafts either as I have seen many of his shafts since and none were straight.
The Pro-taper pretty much sealed the deal on shafts warping. Almost every shaft any honest cuemaker builds will have to admit that it will move some in it's lifetime. So I do not think it is possible to produce shafts that will stay 100% straight. I am not sure many other cuemakers will admit that, but that is how I feel. I have taken several years to turn shafts and taken several months and the results are pretty similar. Slight movement happens in every shaft that I have seen a year or so after it went into play. Nelsonite and Resolute will not keep them straight either.
The Pro-taper pretty much sealed the deal on shafts warping. Almost every shaft any honest cuemaker builds will have to admit that it will move some in it's lifetime. So I do not think it is possible to produce shafts that will stay 100% straight. I am not sure many other cuemakers will admit that, but that is how I feel. I have taken several years to turn shafts and taken several months and the results are pretty similar. Slight movement happens in every shaft that I have seen a year or so after it went into play. Nelsonite and Resolute will not keep them straight either.
That is the question, will they stay straight forever, may be not but the can stay in line for ever. I know that the longer the shaft is processed, trained to have certain contour, the more chance it has of remaining in that state. The different temps and humidity will always have an effect on the wood, especially since most shafts are open to the weather, and this is because of constant sanding trying to maintain that sweat smooth feel.
I am referring to an aspect of cue building that has a very forgiving tolerance. Personally I hate playing with a shaft that is a little warped. I don't think it would alter performance but the fact that it is not straight is in the back of my mind.
I wanna do the 9 or 10 step race, you know the one that fills my pockets.
Boy, ain't THAT the truth! I wasted my money, and endangered my health, way too long on that stuff before learning that the wood is still going to do whatever it's going to do.
I think the real key is to start with good quality shaft wood, let it sit in storage for a period of time to acclimate to its present environment, and then taper it down slowly. After that, the best you can do is to ensure that the EMC never changes too rapidly.
Roger
I hate to toot my own horn, but my shafts that have been treated with Shaft Freeze for the last couple of years that has not been sanded off are remarkable straight. I have been getting several back to re coat because the Shaft freeze gets dirty like the wood and a few swipes with 800 grit sand paper will make them like new but over time will remove the Freeze. I don't claim 100% but more than 70% may be 80% are following this trend. I can positively say that Shaft Freeze will yield more straight shafts than any other product I have tried. I do not discard 5% of my shafts as opposed to 50% or better were not usable after processing them for a year or better. Oh what the hell, I love to toot my horn. Shaft Freeze is the nuts.
I have several very old shafts that are dead straight.
But I agree straight is the exception, not the rule.