Skinny or Fat

Matt_24

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most good players I know like a skinny shaft/tip. I "almost" don't see why cuemakers have 13mm as the standard, when, quite literally, most of the good players I see are either in the "Z" category of tip size/,which is more like 11.5 - or at the fattest in the "314" category which is 12.75. If I handle a cue with a 13mm shaft, it feels like playing with a dead log.

I know one good local player, who plays world-class pool, and he loves a thick 13mm shaft with that Southwest style taper and he can make any shot and loves to spin his rock - but that is the rare exception.

Just some random thoughts during a slow day in the office before thanksgiving vacay.

What say you?
 
With that being said then why do most cue sales suffer if the shafts are smaller than the 13mm dimension.

Most people desire the larger 13mm shafts in order to get the value out of the cue.

Why is that?

Kevin
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
With that being said then why do most cue sales suffer if the shafts are smaller than the 13mm dimension.

Most people desire the larger 13mm shafts in order to get the value out of the cue.

Why is that?

Kevin
Click to expand...

This is an easy one, to get the cue cheaper. If 14mm was standard then a cue would get knocked for having 13mm shafts. Even if soeone plays with a 12mm shaft and are looking to buy a cue that has 12.5mm shafts they know they can get it at a discounted rate because the shafts are not "full". I dont like a 13mm shaft to play with but some people do, seems like more older guys like them.....hope no one takes offense to that.:D A lot of peple buying cues on here or on Ebay are looking to flip them and a cue with small shafts has proved to be a tough sale.
 
I talked to an old timer and 13mm was the standard when you had the slow cloth and needed more power, but less finesse. Look at some old matches. Admittedly, there is less finesse in the position play, but a lot more power required to get around the table. Earl Strickland played with a thick 13mm shaft on his Meucci back in the day. Look on youtube at the match between him and Mizerak. Now he uses a less than 12mm.
 
I think the new standard is 12.75 now adays, or am I wrong? well, I remember at old days where most shafts are 13mm, I actually do like it, but now adays since most shafts come as 12.75 I'm adjusted to that, and my new favorite is the 12.75mm
 
I think the LD shafts play a role in this as well. If the shaft tip has less mass it results in less cue ball deflection, thus the smaller diameter shafts. I use a Predator Z-2 shaft, which I think is 11.75mm, and I really like it. I'm in my mid-40s, and I suspect that qualifies as old, but on the young side of old.
 
Not only has the "standard" shaft decreased a bit over the years from about 13mm to 12.75 or 12.50, but also the butt thickness has decreased noticably. From slow napped cloth to primarily Simonis, I think it's fair to say the faster speed has made players' preferences change.
 
asbani said:
I think the new standard is 12.75 now adays, or am I wrong? well, I remember at old days where most shafts are 13mm, I actually do like it, but now adays since most shafts come as 12.75 I'm adjusted to that, and my new favorite is the 12.75mm
Click to expand...

12.75mm isn't the standard for solid maple shafts. Virtually every production Asian and US cue comes standard with 13mm shafts. My only guess is it has to do with warpage.
 
WildWing said:
Not only has the "standard" shaft decreased a bit over the years from about 13mm to 12.75 or 12.50, but also the butt thickness has decreased noticably. From slow napped cloth to primarily Simonis, I think it's fair to say the faster speed has made players' preferences change.
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This is exactly right! Faster cloth, equals less need for an ultra-powerful stroke provided by a thicker shaft, but more need for more spin on the cueball for finesse position, which equals smaller tips/shafts. But, I do know some players who can spin the hell out of their rock with a 13mm - so in those cases it nullifies my theory. I use a Predator Z2 as well. I bought one after seeing a lot of fantastic players using them, but undoubtedly the 314 is popular as well.
 
i get scared

i build cues and i am starting to get scared when someone orders a 11- 11 1/2 mm shaft on a custom cue. if something goes wrong with the sale i.e. i don't like the finish, hit ,taper, balance, sound, wood combination, tip, rings etc etc etc. i am stuck with a cue i cannot sell because of the very small shaft.
 
desi2960 said:
i build cues and i am starting to get scared when someone orders a 11- 11 1/2 mm shaft on a custom cue. if something goes wrong with the sale i.e. i don't like the finish, hit ,taper, balance, sound, wood combination, tip, rings etc etc etc. i am stuck with a cue i cannot sell because of the very small shaft.
Click to expand...

Non-refundable deposit equal to the cost of a new shaft. :thumbup:
 
desi2960 said:
i build cues and i am starting to get scared when someone orders a 11- 11 1/2 mm shaft on a custom cue. if something goes wrong with the sale i.e. i don't like the finish, hit ,taper, balance, sound, wood combination, tip, rings etc etc etc. i am stuck with a cue i cannot sell because of the very small shaft.
Click to expand...

Obviously, make another shaft. The whole cue isn't the problem...just the shaft. But I understand the frustration. "Trashing" shafts isn't good business.


As far as flipping cues etc, you can turn down a thick shaft, but you can't go back. So they have more value to more people before they are cut down.

As for the whole thing about cloth changing etc. I don't know if I am so old at 46, but I like my 13mm shafts and I can notoriously spin the ball any way I like as much as I like. Always have regardless of cloth. There is no cloth between the ball and tip, so the cloth has nothing to do with imparting spin, it does have a lot to do with translating that spin to the movement of the ball. I know, lots of people will want to argue that, but I won't argue.

Look at masse cues....the absolute apex of the ball spinning cue....they most often have VERY large tips....though mine is only 13mm.

As for how hard one needs to hit the ball. Maybe a fatter tip is more durable, but the same energy is transferred regardless of the size of the tip.

For me skinny shafts are too flexy and I don't like plywood err...laminated shafts. Feels like I am playing with a wet noodle if I try a skinny shaft. It also shifts the weight backwards a little and like so many are discovering now the early cues had the balance right and the makers seem to be getting creative to cope with the screwed up balance of the non-steel jointed cues that are more popular in the higher end now.
 
make another shaft

the shafts i make are made from old one piece brunswick cues. i buy them 100 at a time from a table restorer. out of the 100 cues i get about 8-12 really good tight grain old wood shafts. i make one shaft to fit one cue as i use wood pins and hand file each to fit. my shafts are not interchangeable. if you order a 11 mm shaft then decide you don't want it, i have lost a $150.00 piece of wood.
i'm 67, played my first game at about 5 years old, after 62 years of play, i have decided its not as much as the size of the shaft, but the talent of the person pushing it forward.
having said that, i still like a 12.8 to 13 mm shaft.
 
I have seen many A players us 13mm shafts and get max spin on the cue ball. The reason is they have a great stroke, so they can perform with just about any diameter shaft. For me, anything below 12.5mm is far to whippy. It isn't the arrow, it's the Indian.
 
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