Back Hand English

Canadian cue

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For all the experts in this art I would like some info. When I started playing I was taught that the way you address the cue ball was to line your body and cue up with the line of your shot then bend down and take your shot. Your arm being parallel to the line of the cue. So my question is if you are adjusting your back hand to tilt the cue in your bridge hand how do you keep your body alignment correct? Do you twist your wrist in or out? Or do you pull your arm in or out? If so are you teaching yourself bad mechanics? This is not a bash towards those who use this method because I know that some of the best use it. I was just looking for a more in depth understanding. I know it is popular with the filipino's and alot of them use that loose wrist stroke so is it more adaptable to that style of mechanics? Do many pro's with snooker like mechanics use this method? If so how do they incorporate it into there strokes. Thank you for any info provided it is very much appreciated.
 
Canadian cue said:
For all the experts in this art I would like some info. When I started playing I was taught that the way you address the cue ball was to line your body and cue up with the line of your shot then bend down and take your shot. Your arm being parallel to the line of the cue. So my question is if you are adjusting your back hand to tilt the cue in your bridge hand how do you keep your body alignment correct? Do you twist your wrist in or out? Or do you pull your arm in or out? If so are you teaching yourself bad mechanics? This is not a bash towards those who use this method because I know that some of the best use it. I was just looking for a more in depth understanding. I know it is popular with the filipino's and alot of them use that loose wrist stroke so is it more adaptable to that style of mechanics? Do many pro's with snooker like mechanics use this method? If so how do they incorporate it into there strokes. Thank you for any info provided it is very much appreciated.
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I was taught by Canadian pro Paul Potier who has a strong snooker background to move your elbow in/out for the adjustment. He can make table length shots with his eyes closes using this technique.
 
metmot said:
I was taught by Canadian pro Paul Potier who has a strong snooker background to move your elbow in/out for the adjustment. He can make table length shots with his eyes closes using this technique.
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I attended a poolschool from him in the late 90's. It was very basic stuff though.
 
I line up on the GB and to apply english, I move my back hand, but rather than moving my grip hand to the right or left during the stroke, I adjust my stance to my normal pre shot routine.
 
It's a very slight pivot so there's really no need to worry about what you elbow and wrist are doing. Just line up center and pivot without thinking to where you want and shoot. You also need to make sure to get the right pivot point for your cue and adjust your aim if using more english than the gearing amount.
Dr. Dave's website has a wealth of information the subject.
 
Here are my videos on the subject - all shots using Back Hand English:

1. What it is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYNF0yF6zY

2. Can be used with any bridge length - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY

3. The view from the pocket, more shots - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLfyuAF7kNk

4. A non-standard aiming system with Back Hand English - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpt_9z4tNz0
This one is probably the best one as I show how small the back hand motion really is from the shooter's perspective.

5. 30 shots with extreme left english - http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/ekGhSBJGmSU/default.jpg
 
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Thank you for all the info, out of curiosity around what percentage of pro's use BHE? Anyone have an idea?
 
Canadian cue said:
Thank you for all the info, out of curiosity around what percentage of pro's use BHE? Anyone have an idea?
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I would guess the answer is very close to 0%. They don't need it ... they intuitively know where to aim to adjust for squirt, swerve, and throw for every shot (in theory anyway).

Regards,
Dave
 
Dave, I don't believe that for a minute...

dr_dave said:
I would guess the answer is very close to 0%. They don't need it ... they intuitively know where to aim to adjust for squirt, swerve, and throw for every shot (in theory anyway).

Regards,
Dave
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Even if that's true, the question that should be asked then would be, "How many pros used it to get to the point where they don't need it?"

Jaden
 
I have NOT detected any of them using it, but after having used it, I really wonder why. Especially inside english. One of our illustrious hustle-pros showed me & I was mystified, didn't believe what I saw & forgot it. Missed a shot one evening & my memory recall kicked & Voila!, mystery solved.

Takes some practice to get use to it & some confidence to use it in play.

Greatest mystery in the game, except for what spin is going to do on a bank shot...
 
CEEBEE...Watch the video I posted...

ceebee said:
I have NOT detected any of them using it, but after having used it, I really wonder why. Especially inside english. One of our illustrious hustle-pros showed me & I was mystified, didn't believe what I saw & forgot it. Missed a shot one evening & my memory recall kicked & Voila!, mystery solved.

Takes some practice to get use to it & some confidence to use it in play.

Greatest mystery in the game, except for what spin is going to do on a bank shot...
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See if you can tell by watching me on the majority of those shots that I was using it. On a few you can, but even though I was trying to make it blazingly obvious, on the majority, you can't...

Oh and if you watch, most of those balls that I missed, I think all but two, didn't miss but went dead center pocket and bounced out because of my pockets sagging too low...

Jaden

That was also using a cue that I haven't used in three years that is completely different playing than the one I currently use. I have used a LD shaft for the last few years. One an I-2 by mcdermott and the one I've developed that allows for BHE from multiple pivot points, which I have just started using BHE again.
 
Also....

ceebee said:
I have NOT detected any of them using it, but after having used it, I really wonder why. Especially inside english. One of our illustrious hustle-pros showed me & I was mystified, didn't believe what I saw & forgot it. Missed a shot one evening & my memory recall kicked & Voila!, mystery solved.

Takes some practice to get use to it & some confidence to use it in play.

Greatest mystery in the game, except for what spin is going to do on a bank shot...
Click to expand...

Efren uses it for sure, at least he did back in 99... I doubt he would've changed his game since then.

And that's straight from the horse's mouth...

Jaden

p.s. also from what I've been told a majority of the philipinos use it...
 
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Canadian cue said:
Thank you for all the info, out of curiosity around what percentage of pro's use BHE? Anyone have an idea?
Click to expand...

Many do. You can't track percentages because NO ONE has done any sort of study that interviews the pros to find out what methods they use backed up with video evidence.

The way that they apply english is made up of BHE, FHE, and Shifted English all blended to allow them to come into the shot from the side and be addressing the ball with the spin they want to apply. From there they will some times adjust minutely in ways that are nearly impossible to detect just by watching them play. That adjusting is back hand english. Or if they move their bridge hand slightly then it's front hand english.

Go watch videos of Bustamante. He is the most flamboyant example of a player who addresses the cue ball at the lower left corner on almost all of his warm-up strokes on almost every shot he takes. Then when he actually hits the ball he hits it precisely with the spin he needs. This is backhand English with extreme confidence.

You can find plenty of videos online to study. Look for the high def ones and study the way they come into the ball and their body motions. Don't even look at the shots. The way most of us have always watched pool videos is to focus on the results and track the cue ball to see where it goes. Don't do that if you really want to understand more about how the pros do things. Watch their bodies, study the way they move into a shot and what they do on the warm-up strokes, what are the bridge lengths? What's most common even across the range of styles?

Do that and you will find out that the pros don't really do things in a purely text-book way but they do have common habits that they must have to succeed at that level.
 
Virtually all the Filipino players use it, SVB uses it quite a bit. I've seen Earl use it a lot, can't tell how much, though. They line up and stroke at the base of the cue ball (the surest way to find the center line), then apply the English just before or during the execution stroke. Efren uses it off and on. Occasionally they use FHE or parallel English for more extreme shots. The only time I see Bustamante aim low left is on his break shots...

The players that use LD shafts seem to use it less; maybe because they don't have to as much, but there seems to be an obvious correlation.
 
Canadian cue said:
For all the experts in this art I would like some info. When I started playing I was taught that the way you address the cue ball was to line your body and cue up with the line of your shot then bend down and take your shot. Your arm being parallel to the line of the cue. So my question is if you are adjusting your back hand to tilt the cue in your bridge hand how do you keep your body alignment correct? Do you twist your wrist in or out? Or do you pull your arm in or out? If so are you teaching yourself bad mechanics? This is not a bash towards those who use this method because I know that some of the best use it. I was just looking for a more in depth understanding. I know it is popular with the filipino's and alot of them use that loose wrist stroke so is it more adaptable to that style of mechanics? Do many pro's with snooker like mechanics use this method? If so how do they incorporate it into there strokes. Thank you for any info provided it is very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

depends on what you mean by "bad mechanics". it would definitely be bad mechanics if you played snooker. but on a 9 ball table, you may be able to get away with it. it seems that there's a lot of people citing players like earl, efren, bustamente, svb. etc..... it should be mentioned that there's exception for genius. that doesn't mean everyone should do it.

no matter what the method, if you can do it "under the gun" consistantly, and it works for you. use it. if it's not dependable when you're under pressure, don't.
 
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