Is it just me or are there anyone else tiered of so many cue maker coping southwest's. Esthetically southwest's are for the most part very boring!!!
In my honest opinion
In my honest opinion
Southwest copy cats
- Thread starter 1outofthe$$$$
- Start date
A SW is probably the easiest and most "tributed", "styled", or copied cue out there. For the most part there is no big difference in any of them, just different wood combo's and ringwork placement. The wide ring they put above the buttcap does not look good imo.
Yes but I have been tired of it for 20 years. Blame the top Taiwanese players because they bought SouthWests and played with them and of course the Taiwanese and later Chinese cuemakers had to copy them at that point.
As for the many many many American cue makers who copy SouthWest's look I don't really know what to tell you about why they do it. I guess they and their customer's like the look.
BTW SouthWest's signature look came from David Paul Kersenbrock anyway.
But yes, I am tired of all the SW looking cues out there. Although the basic design does lend itself to some sweet combinations. I have a cocobolo and birdseye maple Mike Stacey done in the SW style that is pretty sporty looking.
Everyone always copies the styling of the industry leaders, be it cues, cases, or anything else.
What particular "style" do YOU prefer?
Roger
It has been said that the Highest from of Flattery is IMITATION, and Southwest Style, or Southwest look has been IMITATED A LOT.
Faux Southwest, Southwest Tribute, Southwest TYPE Cues etc., are listed every week on e-bay, and AZ BILLIARDS For Sale.
Will the IMITATION, or copying of the Sixpoint Southwest Stop, I seriously doubt it. When my name comes up for my Southwest Order to be placed, it will likely be for a Plane Jane Southwest, as Six Pointer do not float my boat.
Beside if you want to talk about Six Point Cues, please include the California Cuemaker Bert Schreger in the conversation as it was Bert who did the First Six Pointer, according to Burt.
Too me it is like talking about Blue Jeans, and Levi Strauss made his fortune in Blue Jean Pants. While the Miners trying to make a fortune digging, and panning or their fortune in Gold. Strauss was making his fortune with Riveted Blue Jeans. Today the GENERIC TERM for Blue Jeans, is Levi’s.
We got Levi, Wrangler, Lee, Harley Davidson, George, Jordache, etc., and a lot of Generic Blue Jeans on the market For Sale. Jordache was like the first to do DESIGNER JEANS, and the Jordache Crew CASHED IN BIG.
I recall in the late 70’s there was this company in LA making Blue, Black, Gray, and Silver Jeans, and Jean Suit (matching pants, and jackets). Some of the hi end embroidered Jean Suit Retailed over $,1000.00/Set.
The guy was also Licensed by the NFL and did Jeans with Football Helmet, and Team Names for the ladies that retailed over $60.00/Set, when Levi 501’s cost about $10.00.
I honestly do not think any Jeans are Magic Jeans. I buy Wranglers at Wal-Mart. Cue I am not sure there is a Magic Cue, but some do play different than other. Kind of like the way some Jeans fit, and other don’t because of the way they are cut.:grin-square:
10 year wait? Total BS. There aren't enough pool players on earth to create a 10 year wait on a custom brand (if you're actually WORKING).
Maybe if they removed the pseudo-wait and made their cues more available, people wouldn't bother to buy copycats.
A friend of mine let me hit with his SW a few months ago and I couldn't figure out what the big deal was about. If I waited TEN YEARS to get a cue that played nothing out of the ordinary, I'd throw it like a javelin into a river.
Maybe if they removed the pseudo-wait and made their cues more available, people wouldn't bother to buy copycats.
A friend of mine let me hit with his SW a few months ago and I couldn't figure out what the big deal was about. If I waited TEN YEARS to get a cue that played nothing out of the ordinary, I'd throw it like a javelin into a river.
You made me laugh this morning. I also agree that there waiting list is extremely long, but i have heard there is only like three people that work on the cues with very long list of orders.
Still no excuse
I know of a bunch of cue makers (custom shops) with 3 or less guys that do WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more detailed work (not the ho-hum SW designs) that could put out tremendous cues in 1/15th the time.If I wait 10 years, the cue better be a monster cue that eats all other monsters.... a cue that scoffs at being on a magazine cover because the general public isn't worthy. Quite the opposite of a cue that looks just above a production cue (in most cases).
If someone reading this has a SW, waited a full decade, and feels like they pulled the move---- God bless ya. If I did, I think I'd have to say it was worth it just to keep me from looking like....well, you know.
People are waiting the 10 years to own their DREAM, or FLIP IT!
Roy @ IndyQ, get TOP DOLLAR ever day for New Pre Owned, or Mint Southwests, many are going to Asia, as they have the means to buy, and want to buy Southwest's NOW!
Roy @ IndyQ, get TOP DOLLAR ever day for New Pre Owned, or Mint Southwests, many are going to Asia, as they have the means to buy, and want to buy Southwest's NOW!
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Still no excuse
If I wait 10 years, the cue better be a monster cue that eats all other monsters.... a cue that scoffs at being on a magazine cover because the general public isn't worthy. Quite the opposite of a cue that looks just above a production cue (in most cases).
If someone reading this has a SW, waited a full decade, and feels like they pulled the move---- God bless ya. If I did, I think I'd have to say it was worth it just to keep me from looking like....well, you know.
I've hit with a Southwest and I have to say that they are extremely overrated. Two friends of mine were crazy enough to wait the 10 years and when they got it they let me hit with them.....The look was very plain and boring(typical SW) and the hit was no better than many production cues I've hit with.....No disrespect to SW but IMO definitely NOT worth the wait....or the price for that matter.
The reason SW has a 10 year wait is because there is no money required to order one and the cues can be sold with no loss. Zero. Someone can get a new SW every year and hold onto it for years and sell it for what they paid for it or more. That same thing can't be said for more than a handful of other cues.
Of course the cue is not some super cue that feels so much better than everything else. And even that were true at some point it's certainly no true any more when everything about a SW is known from the taper to what toilet paper they have in the bathroom.
Feel and hit are subjective anyway for the most part.
The reason people copy the SW look is because of three things.
1. Performance reputation - many cue makers want to prove that they can build a cue that hits like a SW or better in their minds. So they begin with copying the construction which entails copying the look.
2. Simple is better mentality - many people like the simple look of the SW cue. It's pleasing to them and since they can't wait for or can't afford a SW they seek to get that look elsewhere and ask other cue makers to duplicate it for them.
3. Filling the void - Whenever anything is in demand due to short supply then suppliers will rise up to fill that demand. The void here is demand for cues that perform and look like SW cue. If SW is considered by many to be the pinnacle of performance in cues (debateable of course) then other cue makers will try to emulate that to grab whatever part of the demand that they can.
One could say that the influence of SW cues on top Taiwanese players has had a direct impact on the rising quality of cues from Aisa, specifically from Taiwan and China. The fact that some top pros in Taiwan chose to play with SW led to Taiwanese makers copying them and working with those pros to tweak the "hit" until eventually some cues were produced that really did have a hit that felt like SW. (Blasphemy, right?) Well I can guarantee you that there are some cues out there that would pass a blindfolded hit test against a real SW.
Anyway that bubbled over to cues of all types to the point where a lot of the cues made in China now feature SW-like specs even if they aren't built exactly the same. Of course there have been a lot of other influences but I think that the influx of real SW cues into Taiwan and Japan played a definite part in raising the general performance level of Chinese and Taiwanese made cues.
Of course the cue is not some super cue that feels so much better than everything else. And even that were true at some point it's certainly no true any more when everything about a SW is known from the taper to what toilet paper they have in the bathroom.
Feel and hit are subjective anyway for the most part.
The reason people copy the SW look is because of three things.
1. Performance reputation - many cue makers want to prove that they can build a cue that hits like a SW or better in their minds. So they begin with copying the construction which entails copying the look.
2. Simple is better mentality - many people like the simple look of the SW cue. It's pleasing to them and since they can't wait for or can't afford a SW they seek to get that look elsewhere and ask other cue makers to duplicate it for them.
3. Filling the void - Whenever anything is in demand due to short supply then suppliers will rise up to fill that demand. The void here is demand for cues that perform and look like SW cue. If SW is considered by many to be the pinnacle of performance in cues (debateable of course) then other cue makers will try to emulate that to grab whatever part of the demand that they can.
One could say that the influence of SW cues on top Taiwanese players has had a direct impact on the rising quality of cues from Aisa, specifically from Taiwan and China. The fact that some top pros in Taiwan chose to play with SW led to Taiwanese makers copying them and working with those pros to tweak the "hit" until eventually some cues were produced that really did have a hit that felt like SW. (Blasphemy, right?) Well I can guarantee you that there are some cues out there that would pass a blindfolded hit test against a real SW.
Anyway that bubbled over to cues of all types to the point where a lot of the cues made in China now feature SW-like specs even if they aren't built exactly the same. Of course there have been a lot of other influences but I think that the influx of real SW cues into Taiwan and Japan played a definite part in raising the general performance level of Chinese and Taiwanese made cues.
DrOnePocket
Banned
It's ironic that you make this post. I see in your signature that you play with a Bill Webb and he has made 100's of SW styled cues. Hell I know where you can find at least 15 of them right now.
Anyway... Merry Christmas
You don't like the way SW's look AND you are "tiered" of others copying the design..........
An irony....
Just about any plain 6 point cue could be called a SW copy to a certain degree. The vast majority of their cue's are just different wood combo's and rings so its easy for other cuemaker's cues to look like them whether or not they had any intention on it. Its kind of like saying every 4 point veneered cue with a few inlay's is a Bushka copy. Im not a SW scholar but didnt Jerry Franklin get a lot of what he learned from DPK? If thats the case then arent the SW's DPK copies in some for or another? This debate has been brought up almost as many times as the aiming system threads and there will probably never be a definitive answer that everyone will agree on.
They do play good and the craftsmanship is top notch but the wait time for most was just a way to make some quick $$. I would venture to say that in the next few years it will be cut back from 10 years to maybe half that. Take a look at the amount of SW cues you see for sale and the length of time it takes them to sell compared to several years ago. I have never ordered one from them so im not exactly sure what they sell for straight from SW but how many people are going to pay the current market value for a cue and take a chance to try to make any money off it.....not many. It was one thing when you could get one and turn a good profit real quick but now, that seems to be a thing of the past. Im sure they will still do big business but it will probably be from those wanting a cue to play with rather than flip.
Yes I know Billy has makes cues that resemble southwest's. But my Webb has butterfly points! It is not a southwest copy. I have never seen a southwest with butterfly points, I am could be wrong I am not a southwest expert nor do I claim to be, But I do not think southwest has made a cue with butterfly points!?
Please correct me if I am wrong.