Discriminating against non-drinkers?

Donny Lutz

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
I've been around the pool business, playing, teaching and managing, for over 56 years. Also was a bowling instructor for 12 years. I fully understand that alcohol is a big part of the pool and bowling businesses.
But there are many of us who can't drink alcohol for health reasons, are re-covering alcoholics, or choose not to drink when competing seriously. In general, we are treated by most proprietors as anathema to their business. We do spend money on other things such as league and tournament play, cues, cases, etc. We are not in any way a hindrance to the sport.

Yet I see proprietors giving free pool, merchandise discounts, etc., to the heavy drinkers, while giving nothing to those who'd rather have a soda or a juice. They may as well put a sign on the front door saying, "Non-alcohol drinkers not welcome!"
Non-drinkers may not be the most "valuable" customers, but they do bring in additional business, and cause far fewer problems than the heavy drinkers. They tend NOT to damage the equipment or start fights.

I'm not a business owner or a manager at present, but if I were I would want customers of every stripe and style. I'd give free play for everyone one afternoon a week, to entice new customers. I'd give all league players free play during the day. I'd buy a round for all league players at least ONCE a season. I'd be offering league play under at least two national organizations. I'd offer free clinics for beginners, and discounts on merchandise for league players. I'd have a weekly ladies' night with half price drinks. None of these suggestions requires any great $ cost to proprietors. I've seen all of them create and sustain business.
In a nutshell, I'm saying that proprietors would do well to give a little to the sport; they can only benefit in the long run. Reward customers rather than wring every possible nickel from their wallets.

Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
There are some owners who only see the benefit of an immediate dollar- I used to frequent a bar that changed ownership and the new owner took the place into the 7th circle of Hell chasing down dollars instead of letting things continue as they were. A lot of the incentives you mentioned had been in place, or something similar, but they were deemed superfluous and he scrapped them in favor of short-sighted plans. In a word, I think it comes down to GREED.
 
In an ironic twist the place I currently play at is charging such ridiculous prices that many have stopped purchasing drinks there. Or to put it another way many are carrying flasks and buying sodas or going out for a smoke and drink in their cars! By attempting to squeeze more out of the customers they are actually driving away business. About the only time pool players go are on league night or the one night of the week that they have free pool. Perhaps it works for them dollar wise I honestly do not know..
 
I'm one of those non alcohol drinkers but I'm a good tipper. Never drank alcohol when I bowled or played pool. Soda or water are my drinks of choice when behind the wheel of a car or truck. I can't afford a D.U.I. and never had one.
The only problem I've had is with one bartender. His beef was having to wash glasses; nit. Otherwise I've never felt discriminated against because I don't get drunk.
 
I know guys that will go into a bar to play and order a tap water. Don't even offer to tip 25 cents. They do it over and over and most times bring a coke with them in a back pack and add that to the glass of ice after the water is gone. Unfortunately I know more than one that do this. Then they ***** about how the cloth ought to be replaced, the table is not level; you name it they ***** about it. Unfortunately these types ruin it for every non drinker who is out there trying to do the right thing.
 
I'm not gonne get too deep into this, as the folks who have already posted have some very valid points. Still, you folks have to realize that if alcohol is the primary product for any persons business, that is where his attention is going to be, and rightly so.

It doesn't justify poor management, poor customer service, etc. But don't be surprised when that business owner pays more attention to those who are purchasing his primary money maker.

Business isn't easy, and sometimes not obvious, either.
 
You guys should get together and start a pool room. I'll be sure to frequent your establishment as long as you stay in business.
 
So of us Drink, but do not play Pool, and Drink at the SAME TIME. One Bar Owner in Arizona use to kind of RUN OFF his non Alcohol Drinking Customers because he did not understand these people had friends who they brought with them who were drinkers. So in the end he lost the Non Drinker, and their Friends. Also in the end the Bar Closed, and lets say the guy business plan did not work.

Than you have this TV SHOW ON SPIKE CALLED BAR RESCUE, and if you watch it, you will see first hand when MANY BARS go down the tubes. After watching a Full Season I could pick the problem hi-lighted in the TV Show, and Pin them on many of the Bars that have closed in the Valley in the sun, that were what i call Bar that Catered too Pool.
 
Im 34, quit drinking a few years ago, and got back into pool so I could still have a night life. I just recently quit coffee a few months ago, but I would tip my waitress a fiver and the bartender the same for coffee, now it's for water. But then, I don't pay for pool where I go. Being an ex bartender, as long as your staff is happy, i.e. tip well, and generally things go your way. The machine needs to be greased to keep running.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
You guys should get together and start a pool room. I'll be sure to frequent your establishment as long as you stay in business.
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If that was directed at me here's my reply. I tip the counter person, I tip the waitresses and bar tenders. I'll eat their $8.00 hamburger and tip $3.00.

If it's a slow night I slip a waitress a five just for grins.

After all is said and done I tip around $10.00 - $15.00 a night.

I'll buy a round for others but last I checked I have the right to be sober.
 
I guess I'm spoiled cause we have a pool room that's NOT a bar. As someone that doesn't drink it's nice to have someplace to go where I don't have to deal with the drunks. Sure we don't have much action, small town so no place does, but it's a nice peaceful place to play pool. Heck half the time the jukebox is off and the radio is on. Soda's $0.50 and it's $2.50/hr per person from open till close.

It helps that the owner loves pool and owns another large company so I highly doubt he cares whether the place makes a profit or not.
 
One thing that seems to be coming up in this thread is that people say they tip well. Unfortunately, though the bar tenders and wait staff may be happy, the owners don't get any share of the tip money so to them tipping well doesn't help the bottom line.

That may be why there seems to be an emphasis on drinking alcohol and ordering food. The owners have to make money in order to keep the place open.
 
I couldn't care less if drinkers get the perks, and "specials" from the owner (that's where he makes his money). What ticks me off is the late night ring game that starts up, and if I ask to play, I hear, "you haven't had a drink the whole night". SO. Same happens when the scotch doubles woofing starts....someone says they take me as a partner, and the other team says no way, they've been drinking all night and I've had 2 diet cokes.....
 
Brandon79ta said:
I guess I'm spoiled cause we have a pool room that's NOT a bar. As someone that doesn't drink it's nice to have someplace to go where I don't have to deal with the drunks. Sure we don't have much action, small town so no place does, but it's a nice peaceful place to play pool. Heck half the time the jukebox is off and the radio is on. Soda's $0.50 and it's $2.50/hr per person from open till close.

It helps that the owner loves pool and owns another large company so I highly doubt he cares whether the place makes a profit or not.
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Not trying to a smart ass here, but I can guarantee nonprofit there. I wish I had a place like that to play.
 
I've been a heavy drinker and a non-drinker throughout different periods in my life. I travel for work, so I have been to pool rooms all across the country. I have never once been treated differently or seen a person get treated differently for NOT drinking. People get treated worse for being an ass, but I highly doubt it's because they aren't drinkers.
 
I'm not defending room owners in this post. I think many of them are idiots who are shooting themselves in the foot, and it is evident by the number of rooms closing down all over the place.


That said, here's my $0.02


First of all, nothing is free. Nothing at all. That "free" pool the alcoholic is getting, he/she gets because they blow all, most, half of their paycheck in that place. If you put a dollar figure on it, they're paying a lot more per hour for pool than you are, who actually does pay table time. Now, if you think they ought spend that much on booze and still pay table time like you do, that's fine. But the owners give these perceived freebies to them to keep them happy or make them feel like they're getting a deal or they are being worked with in a sort of give and take. This technique is used in several industries and businesses.


Like it or not, booze is business. Pool cannot survive on its own, as evident by all the rooms closing down after the power drinkers and party crowds have gone away. It used to be able to survive, but not anymore. The rent is too damn high, as that candidate once said. Taxes are too high. Competition, "best use" and all that...how do you make a profitable pool room without big liquor sales? With the high cost per square foot? Table time would have to more than quadruple at least. $25/hr table time might be necessary. Maybe more. Remember, there's a lot of people who drink in pool rooms who don't play. They wouldn't be there without the liquor, and the pool players would be the only clientele and support for the room.


To make matters worse, many pool players are cheap skates. League players are drinkers. Pool players (non-bangers) are CHEAP. Ask any room owner, he don't make a dime off those guys. Now, if the booze is gone, guess what? The leagues will instantly die. Because those league players are there just as much to drink as they are to play pool. Every individual weights the importance of drinking vs. pool differently, but it's safe to say, no liquor and they won't be there.


I've always bashed the APA and will continue to do so. But their strength and smarts is in the fact that they are a bar league at the core. If pool goes back into a dark age and dies off significantly, they will still survive in bars with their travel leagues.



Anyway, I don't like it when an owner is a jerk to customers because they aren't emptying their wallets for them. Some owners are jerks. Others are in big trouble, and if you're not drinking and spending - you're just a loiterer or someone wearing down the cloth on the table and taking up space.
 
Tipping!

dr9ball said:
One thing that seems to be coming up in this thread is that people say they tip well. Unfortunately, though the bar tenders and wait staff may be happy, the owners don't get any share of the tip money so to them tipping well doesn't help the bottom line.

That may be why there seems to be an emphasis on drinking alcohol and ordering food. The owners have to make money in order to keep the place open.
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A little off thread but whatever. Just had some relatives in from Australia and they said there is no tipping in Australia! Not a hard fast rule, but just in general no tipping. How do they manage? Simple stuff. They pay their employees a decent wage! Tipping is expected here even for poor service. No I don't tip for poor service but I promise you waiters expect it no matter what. I know I have opened up a can of worms with all the restaurant and bartender folks so go ahead and vent on me if you chose. Fact is you are not special and what you do is not special! I tip bartenders without any fuss because of all the idiots they are forced to deal with. Waiters? It's all about refreshing my drink, not the food.
 
Grilled Cheese said:
I'm not defending room owners in this post. I think many of them are idiots who are shooting themselves in the foot, and it is evident by the number of rooms closing down all over the place.


That said, here's my $0.02


First of all, nothing is free. Nothing at all. That "free" pool the alcoholic is getting, he/she gets because they blow all, most, half of their paycheck in that place. If you put a dollar figure on it, they're paying a lot more per hour for pool than you are, who actually does pay table time. Now, if you think they ought spend that much on booze and still pay table time like you do, that's fine. But the owners give these perceived freebies to them to keep them happy or make them feel like they're getting a deal or they are being worked with in a sort of give and take. This technique is used in several industries and businesses.


Like it or not, booze is business. Pool cannot survive on its own, as evident by all the rooms closing down after the power drinkers and party crowds have gone away. It used to be able to survive, but not anymore. The rent is too damn high, as that candidate once said. Taxes are too high. Competition, "best use" and all that...how do you make a profitable pool room without big liquor sales? With the high cost per square foot? Table time would have to more than quadruple at least. $25/hr table time might be necessary. Maybe more. Remember, there's a lot of people who drink in pool rooms who don't play. They wouldn't be there without the liquor, and the pool players would be the only clientele and support for the room.


To make matters worse, many pool players are cheap skates. League players are drinkers. Pool players (non-bangers) are CHEAP. Ask any room owner, he don't make a dime off those guys. Now, if the booze is gone, guess what? The leagues will instantly die. Because those league players are there just as much to drink as they are to play pool. Every individual weights the importance of drinking vs. pool differently, but it's safe to say, no liquor and they won't be there.


I've always bashed the APA and will continue to do so. But their strength and smarts is in the fact that they are a bar league at the core. If pool goes back into a dark age and dies off significantly, they will still survive in bars with their travel leagues.



Anyway, I don't like it when an owner is a jerk to customers because they aren't emptying their wallets for them. Some owners are jerks. Others are in big trouble, and if you're not drinking and spending - you're just a loiterer or someone wearing down the cloth on the table and taking up space.
Click to expand...

Let's face it, most owners can't see 3 feet past the bar.
I ran a tour for about 10 years and after setting a record weekend with one stop going on, hi regional manager complained that they sold too much soda and coffee. I thought gee too much 10cent coffee for $2 a cup and too much 9cent soda for $2 a glass, makes sense to me.
We enabled the record weekend by some $10,000 but ended up the goat anyway.
 
A few freebies help business.

Grilled Cheese said:
I'm not defending room owners in this post. I think many of them are idiots who are shooting themselves in the foot, and it is evident by the number of rooms closing down all over the place.


That said, here's my $0.02


First of all, nothing is free. Nothing at all. That "free" pool the alcoholic is getting, he/she gets because they blow all, most, half of their paycheck in that place. If you put a dollar figure on it, they're paying a lot more per hour for pool than you are, who actually does pay table time. Now, if you think they ought spend that much on booze and still pay table time like you do, that's fine. But the owners give these perceived freebies to them to keep them happy or make them feel like they're getting a deal or they are being worked with in a sort of give and take. This technique is used in several industries and businesses.


Like it or not, booze is business. Pool cannot survive on its own, as evident by all the rooms closing down after the power drinkers and party crowds have gone away. It used to be able to survive, but not anymore. The rent is too damn high, as that candidate once said. Taxes are too high. Competition, "best use" and all that...how do you make a profitable pool room without big liquor sales? With the high cost per square foot? Table time would have to more than quadruple at least. $25/hr table time might be necessary. Maybe more. Remember, there's a lot of people who drink in pool rooms who don't play. They wouldn't be there without the liquor, and the pool players would be the only clientele and support for the room.


To make matters worse, many pool players are cheap skates. League players are drinkers. Pool players (non-bangers) are CHEAP. Ask any room owner, he don't make a dime off those guys. Now, if the booze is gone, guess what? The leagues will instantly die. Because those league players are there just as much to drink as they are to play pool. Every individual weights the importance of drinking vs. pool differently, but it's safe to say, no liquor and they won't be there.


I've always bashed the APA and will continue to do so. But their strength and smarts is in the fact that they are a bar league at the core. If pool goes back into a dark age and dies off significantly, they will still survive in bars with their travel leagues.



Anyway, I don't like it when an owner is a jerk to customers because they aren't emptying their wallets for them. Some owners are jerks. Others are in big trouble, and if you're not drinking and spending - you're just a loiterer or someone wearing down the cloth on the table and taking up space.
Click to expand...

My point (I started this thread), was not that alcohol is evil or that pool owners shouldn't try to make a profit. I've seen owners actually tell non-drinkers that they didn't want their business. I've got this weird idea that if you treat people equally and fairly, you will probably succeed at business.
One owner says he wants to get more people in during the day so it looks busy when you walk by. Makes sense. But then he won't give free time during the day, even though the place is almost empty for the first five hours. "Most of those people who come in for free pool don't drink!" he argued. Most? If you have twenty people playing for free and only 6-8 are drinking, isn't that still better than having the tables empty?
So why not just give free time (for league members at least) when the place is empty? Customers appreciate such things and will spread the word. More business!

Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
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