Cheated

[Kickin' Chicken]

Now I think you'll be better prepared if something like this ever happens again, so IMO, it's good that you came here seeking opinions. :thumbup:

You indicated that your opponent was acting like an ass during the entire match so you were on notice this was not an upstanding guy. Definitely, in such an important match, never rely on that type of person to call a foul on himself.

I'm in total agreement with everyone who said you should have lept from your chair, firmly called foul, picked up whitey and played on. You can't give this kind of person an option to say, 'no I didn't foul'.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[jmoschgat]

Thanks for the opinions guys. I always ask my opponent even if I know it's a foul just to make sure, I was expecting him to just say yes as he had all match when he fouled. I always figured it was better to make sure rather than pick up the ball and end up having a foul on me for touching the ball when it wasn't a foul. I guess against guys like him I shouldn't do that, I've never seen that happen in our league before.

 

[jmoschgat]

You didn't call the foul and had a hissy fit after it was all over?

How one adapts to such things and deals with such things has a great deal to do with how well they play. In other words, it is part of play. You said you were playing very well. I disagree. You were not playing very well. You failed to call a foul and by your description likely lost over it. If you call that playing well I am not sure what playing poorly means.

The guy was intimidating? Oh come on now. Was there somebody in the room with a gun? Did he have a gun? Many of us have been there. A few thousand on the table and your opponent's "associate" is a gentleman that has had no visible means of gainful employment for twenty years yet drives a new Cadillac and has a strange bulge under his coat. That's intimidating. This was not that.

Call the foul, it's part of the game. Get it done and move on according to the results/ruling. You didn't do that. You made a mistake and lost.

Did he have a gun? Maybe. Would I be suprised if he did have a gun or knife? Absolutely not.

 

[dr9ball]

so he gets the benefit of the doubt according to TAP rules. I had an easy run with ball in hand but instead I am kicking.

I end up losing and start to make a small scene because I know people saw and refused to say so. Anyways I dropped of the losers bracket to make a scene. What do you guys think of this and do u see this type of cheating a lot? Just frustrated I guess because I was playing very well.
Jack

As you so eloquently stated the rule above:

"If no one is called to observe the hit, the call goes to the shooter."

I've seen way too many teams and friends try to bully people into giving up ball in hand but they obviously don't know the rule. They should have gotten a 3rd party to watch the hit.

Since you asked, Here's my thoughts. It seems to me that from your description of what happened, you really hate that you lost, you don't like the player that beat you and you are making excuses to try to make yourself feel better.

Dropping out of the losers bracket and trying to make a scene probably had little effect on anyone besides you and reminds me of kids on the playground who whine saying "I'm not going to play with you anymore". That behavior is in my opinion childish and immature.

It's a game some you win and some you lose. If you get to shoot, and you loose it's most likely your fault for the loss. If you don't get to shoot, then it probably wasn't your fault.

I know this sounds harsh and I apologize if it offends you but you did ask for our opinions and I have given you mine.

It may be worth more or less than others depending on your perspective.

It may also not mean anything at all, after all it's just my opinion and I don't know you.

Of course it's quite possible that your opponent knows that he fouled and in that case, he should have owned up to it in my opinion.

However, the rules don't stipulate voting for who thinks it was a foul or not.

The call goes to the shooter if you don't have a neutral party watching the hit.

Hopefully, you'll do better next time.

 

[dr9ball]

Now I think you'll be better prepared if something like this ever happens again, so IMO, it's good that you came here seeking opinions. :thumbup:

You indicated that your opponent was acting like an ass during the entire match so you were on notice this was not an upstanding guy. Definitely, in such an important match, never rely on that type of person to call a foul on himself.

I'm in total agreement with everyone who said you should have lept from your chair, firmly called foul, picked up whitey and played on. You can't give this kind of person an option to say, 'no I didn't foul'.

Best,
Brian kc

Brian, under the league rules, the call of whether it was a foul or not goes to the shooter if there's not a neutral person called in to watch the hit. The non shooting player can't just jump up call foul and take the cue ball.

 

[Chopdoc]

Did he have a gun? Maybe. Would I be suprised if he did have a gun or knife? Absolutely not.

Point taken. :thumbup:

Still.

....you gotta call him on it. It's your job as a player. If you fail at that, then part of your game is failing.

 

[jmoschgat]

As you so eloquently stated the rule above:

"If no one is called to observe the hit, the call goes to the shooter."

I've seen way too many teams and friends try to bully people into giving up ball in hand but they obviously don't know the rule. They should have gotten a 3rd party to watch the hit.

Since you asked, Here's my thoughts. It seems to me that from your description of what happened, you really hate that you lost, you don't like the player that beat you and you are making excuses to try to make yourself feel better.

Dropping out of the losers bracket and trying to make a scene probably had little effect on anyone besides you and reminds me of kids on the playground who whine saying "I'm not going to play with you anymore". That behavior is in my opinion childish and immature.

It's a game some you win and some you lose. If you get to shoot, and you loose it's most likely your fault for the loss. If you don't get to shoot, then it probably wasn't your fault.

I know this sounds harsh and I apologize if it offends you but you did ask for our opinions and I have given you mine.

It may be worth more or less than others depending on your perspective.

It may also not mean anything at all, after all it's just my opinion and I don't know you.

Of course it's quite possible that your opponent knows that he fouled and in that case, he should have owned up to it in my opinion.

However, the rules don't stipulate voting for who thinks it was a foul or not.

The call goes to the shooter if you don't have a neutral party watching the hit.

Hopefully, you'll do better next time.

While I appreciate your thoughts that's just not what happened. There was no hit to be watched. He was trying to make a ball and semi miscued and no ball hit a rail. If it was a safe or anything that was supposed to be close, I would
Have been right at the rail as everyone stated, as well as had someone else watching. Unfortunately that's not the case. And you are right, I hate losing and I dislike him. The only thing I hate worse than losing is when someone who has to lie his way into winning. Thanks for all your thoughts, I have been Doing this all from my phone so it's hard to see if I added all necessary details and I know it's hard for me to paint the exact picture because of the weird sequence of events.

 

[jmoschgat]

Point taken. :thumbup:

Still.

....you gotta call him on it. It's your job as a player. If you fail at that, then part of your game is failing.

Thanks, and you're right. Unfortunately even if I would have made a huge scene at the time, as long as he continues to say it wasnt a foul then he gets the call. I guess the rules dont take into account people who are dishonest.


PS

I wasn't trying to get a vote going with the spectators, its just when I asked them they told me it didn't hit the rail with a subtle head shake so my opponent wouldn't see them telling me that, and one of his teammates (who saw it and shook his head no) said ask him, that's when I went over to ask him and he lied. I just wanted his teammate who saw it to stand up and make him tell the truth, but he backed down and didn't say anything. I would have just picked up the cue ball and ran out, but in the last game of the finals I thought it best to make him tell me it was a foul so he couldn't call a foul on me for touching thE cue ball. I really didn't think he was going to lie when I asked him.

 

[quadrary]

The way i handle these things is to make a permanent mental note of this and next time i play the guy i call someone to watch his hit on every close call or safe the guy plays. It tends to get on his nerves then he asks dont you trust me and i politely say no youve already proven i cant.

 

[jmoschgat]

The way i handle these things is to make a permanent mental note of this and next time i play the guy i call someone to watch his hit on every close call or safe the guy plays. It tends to get on his nerves then he asks dont you trust me and i politely say no youve already proven i cant.

i like this idea.

 

[jmoschgat]

Dropping out of the losers bracket and trying to make a scene probably had little effect on anyone besides you and reminds me of kids on the playground who whine saying "I'm not going to play with you anymore". That behavior is in my opinion childish and immature.

this is what i mostly disagree with and it may be because i did a bad job explaining it in my original post. this MVP tournament is used to form a team to go to the rally in the valley. they were taking 2 people at my handicap. so if i won my match i was in, if i lost i went into another bracket for the other spot. after this happened i was just very disgusted. the league operator was in the bathroom at the time this happened so she didnt see. after the match i told her i have ZERO interest in playing on that team anymore. this decision has a few levels to it. A. i dont want to be on the same team as this guy who just lied to my face about a foul just so he could win. B. i dont want to be on a team with these people who saw it and when asked by myself and the league operator claimed that they didnt see it. mind you they didnt tell her or me that it DID hit the rail, rather they changed their stories to not seeing it at all even though they were right at the table. i do think that my point was well established, because at least 5 people who had heard the story who i know in the league all said how much BS it was and how this guy has done that before. i had never played the guy because he is in a different division so i can only play him in tournaments.

 

[Chopdoc]

i like this idea.

I like it too.

 

[Chopdoc]

Thanks, and you're right. Unfortunately even if I would have made a huge scene at the time, as long as he continues to say it wasnt a foul then he gets the call. I guess the rules dont take into account people who are dishonest.

Indeed. It isn't a simple matter I guess. If it were you wouldn't be posting here about it.

 

[SKILLZELITE]

If you was so sure it was a foul ,you should of just took what was yours.. You're calling the spectators spineless, when in reality you're just as spineless,, for letting it ride....

 

[Mickey Qualls]

The way i handle these things is to make a permanent mental note of this and next time i play the guy i call someone to watch his hit on every close call or safe the guy plays. It tends to get on his nerves then he asks dont you trust me and i politely say no youve already proven i cant.

i like this idea.

I like it too.

I'm filing this in my mental Rolodex, because I REALLY like this, too...

Green for Quadrary...

 

[jmoschgat]

If you was so sure it was a foul ,you should of just took what was yours.. You're calling the spectators spineless, when in reality you're just as spineless,, for letting it ride....

You obviously haven't read the posts.

 

[Shakeysmooth]

Your League Operator should shoulder some of the blame, if:
1. Opponent was known cheater and poor sport, and
2. He could have acted as ref. or found someone reliable.
My LO would have not tolerated a cheater, and may well have bounced him from TAP a long time ago. Talking and sharking would lead to a warning, then a BIH foul, then loss of game and loss of match.
My local TAP sends MVP tourney winner to Nationals, all expenses paid...with that at stake, I would have had a ref present for all shots with this knucklehead.
Sorry you were victimized this time...just take steps so it won't happen to you or someone else again.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

It sounds like this could have been avoided if the LO was there to referee the match. In my league, whenever a tournament is held, the LO is present at the final.

 

[jmoschgat]

It sounds like this could have been avoided if the LO was there to referee the match. In my league, whenever a tournament is held, the LO is present at the final.

She was for the entire match except this shot, she got up to go to he bathroom. I looked to where she had been sitting as soon as he hit it and she wasn't there

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Brian, under the league rules, the call of whether it was a foul or not goes to the shooter if there's not a neutral person called in to watch the hit. The non shooting player can't just jump up call foul and take the cue ball.

Hi Rufus;

Admittedly, I haven't played much in leagues. I defer to your expertise on the rules (I know you possess this :thumbup and, yes, I have heard this before that the shooter gets to make the call.

As the op said, however, this did not sound like a situation where he would have had a reason to call a ref as in a close hit. He said it was simply a miscue where nothing ended up hitting a rail.

Too bad that some folks put winning above all else but we see this sort of behavior from a very young age.

Best,
Brian kc