With all due respect pp2093, I disagree. By this logic if you can run a rack of 9 Ball then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to run out a set to 11. Additionally the assumption that no rack is different is faulty - every rack is different.
Can anyone run 100 with enough practice?
- Thread starter skierlawyer
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With all due respect pp2093, I disagree. By this logic if you can run a rack of 9 Ball then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to run out a set to 11. Additionally the assumption that no rack is different is faulty - every rack is different.
I agree, the concept also assumes that one has the coordination required to successfully pot balls indefinitely. I think Danny Diliberto has said this before, but I believe he was referring to a player who can reliably and consistently get through two racks and into the third.
Of course. It's kind of like saying that since John Schmidt ran 400 there's nothing to stop him from running 3.5 times that many. That's true in that there's no physical law that prevents him from running 1400, but in case someone wants to bet on it, they will get lots of action.
It's a matter of probabilities. The typical 28-max-lifetime runner is not going to put 3.5 of those runs without a miss in them any time soon. The closest I've heard of is a 3-cushion player that Bob Byrne knew who ran 16 having never run more than 8 in his life.
The way to get to 100 (or to whatever a good goal is for the individual) is to follow most of the advice above which involves organized practice. Belief is not enough. You can't expect to more than double your best run of the past month assuming you've been playing regularly. Nearly everyone will work up to it gradually. There will be lots of 60s and 70s on the way to the first 100.
i don't mean the layout man. fine though you got me. no not everyone can run 100s so why bother
oh yeah when danny d says it he must be referring to a player who can consistently...... when i say it i'm just wrong.
Tonight
I hurt my back while skiing this weekend, and was in pain when I played tonight. I managed a 14 ball run. I left myself a break shot, made it, broke the rack, but scratched ending my run. I'm going to take a few days off till my back is better. I'm definitely thinking differently when I look at the table and its making more sense. I can't wait to be able to hit balls again...
I hurt my back while skiing this weekend, and was in pain when I played tonight. I managed a 14 ball run. I left myself a break shot, made it, broke the rack, but scratched ending my run. I'm going to take a few days off till my back is better. I'm definitely thinking differently when I look at the table and its making more sense. I can't wait to be able to hit balls again...
Good point. However, I have to wonder if there are just one or two little things in your game that would make the difference to get you over 100 more often. It still sounds odd statistically that you run 50 - 99 almost every time (or every other time?) you play, but almost never see 100.
This is exactly the issue when any player starts reaching just pass their comfort level and I've noticed that this is how most of my runs end as well.
As Bill points out, you cannot make any assumption about running 2 or 3 racks and extrapolating that to running 7 or 8 racks. it really is a basic statistics issue. Otherwise, any player that can run 1 rack in 14.1 could run 10... and that's just not the case. If you were to graph the difficulty level of running balls on an X-Y scale, the graph would be logarithmic, not linear, the higher the ball count. And this is due to the exponentially increasing problems that come at you the higher your ball count becomes.
Best advice I can offer the OP is to practice 14.1 and play 14.1. Practicing will help train your mind and body on the correct 14.1 fundamentals/principles while playing will help you apply these fundamentals/principles during real game play.
Ray
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Odds of Running 100
The odds of running 100 balls hinges on a number of variable - each with their own distinct percentage value. For example, the shooters skill level will partially dictate whether he can/will run 100 balls or not. The higher the skill level the higher the possibility he will see the 100th ball fall. Additional variables include pocket size, cloth condition, rail condition, familiarity with the table, table size, table brand, humidity level, condition of the balls, circumstances (exhibition, game, amount of cash on the line, etc.), whether the shooter has run over 100 before and how many times, distractions (mental and physical), number of highly difficult shots needed to be made and finally, luck. Each variable has a sliding scale; i.e., if the balls are brand new and polished the odds of running 100 are generally slightly better. If the humidity level is lower the odds are better than if the run was attempted in wet conditions. All of these variables add up and are in addition to the laws of statistics that state that running 2 racks is harder than running 1; running 4 racks is harder than running 2; etc. Therefore, under perfect conditions for a highly skilled player, lets say a well-rested John Schmidt with no problems on his mind, no distractions, low humidity, new balls, new cloth, a 4.5 x 9 GC with 5" pockets that John has played a lot on and no unlucky breaks (no ball skids, no freezing the cue ball on another ball, no scratches, etc.); his odds of running 100 may be as good as 4 to 1. If any of these variables change to a less desirable condition the likelihood of running 100 decreases. Now replace John with an inferior player, say me, and the odds drop drastically to near zero because the closest I've ever gotten to 100 is 80 balls. Each variable has an unknowable weight attached to it, but the variable carrying the heaviest weight is who is doing the shooting. That's my 2 cents.
Mr. Jewett wrote a very interesting column a few years back regarding probability of running 100 balls. It can be found by following the below link:
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2006-06.pdf
Ron F
The odds of running 100 balls hinges on a number of variable - each with their own distinct percentage value. For example, the shooters skill level will partially dictate whether he can/will run 100 balls or not. The higher the skill level the higher the possibility he will see the 100th ball fall. Additional variables include pocket size, cloth condition, rail condition, familiarity with the table, table size, table brand, humidity level, condition of the balls, circumstances (exhibition, game, amount of cash on the line, etc.), whether the shooter has run over 100 before and how many times, distractions (mental and physical), number of highly difficult shots needed to be made and finally, luck. Each variable has a sliding scale; i.e., if the balls are brand new and polished the odds of running 100 are generally slightly better. If the humidity level is lower the odds are better than if the run was attempted in wet conditions. All of these variables add up and are in addition to the laws of statistics that state that running 2 racks is harder than running 1; running 4 racks is harder than running 2; etc. Therefore, under perfect conditions for a highly skilled player, lets say a well-rested John Schmidt with no problems on his mind, no distractions, low humidity, new balls, new cloth, a 4.5 x 9 GC with 5" pockets that John has played a lot on and no unlucky breaks (no ball skids, no freezing the cue ball on another ball, no scratches, etc.); his odds of running 100 may be as good as 4 to 1. If any of these variables change to a less desirable condition the likelihood of running 100 decreases. Now replace John with an inferior player, say me, and the odds drop drastically to near zero because the closest I've ever gotten to 100 is 80 balls. Each variable has an unknowable weight attached to it, but the variable carrying the heaviest weight is who is doing the shooting. That's my 2 cents.
Mr. Jewett wrote a very interesting column a few years back regarding probability of running 100 balls. It can be found by following the below link:
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2006-06.pdf
Ron F
Running 100
Incidentally, I have tinkered around slightly with some of these variables and my experiences support my assertions. I played for a long time at a pool room with old balls - undersized from wear (meaning lighter) and the room had no ball polisher. The most I ever ran in years of playing there was in the 50's. I opted to buy my own set of brand new Centennials and to have them polished regularly and my higher runs increased in regularity until I hit 70 for the first time; then 72; then 80. This was on GCII's with larger pockets (4.75"). I then started playing on a Diamond with 4.75" and my runs were typically lower with my high being 51. Although unscientific it confirmed in my mind that each variable aids or retards the number of balls you can expect to run. Not saying that 100 can't be run on the worst of conditions. It can. But it's more difficult and it won't happen as frequently.
Ron F
Incidentally, I have tinkered around slightly with some of these variables and my experiences support my assertions. I played for a long time at a pool room with old balls - undersized from wear (meaning lighter) and the room had no ball polisher. The most I ever ran in years of playing there was in the 50's. I opted to buy my own set of brand new Centennials and to have them polished regularly and my higher runs increased in regularity until I hit 70 for the first time; then 72; then 80. This was on GCII's with larger pockets (4.75"). I then started playing on a Diamond with 4.75" and my runs were typically lower with my high being 51. Although unscientific it confirmed in my mind that each variable aids or retards the number of balls you can expect to run. Not saying that 100 can't be run on the worst of conditions. It can. But it's more difficult and it won't happen as frequently.
Ron F
What Ron said. There is a reason that the champions at the DCC straight pool spend time cleaning the balls and the table. Clean equipment works better and is more consistent. Some points in the article mentioned above (http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2006-06.pdf) that will help you run 100:
Polish the balls.
Clean the table.
Play short position.
Play patterns that put the object balls in the nearest pockets.
Make sure your pocketing pattern (see the article) is centered on the pocket.
On this last point, of aspect of his game that Irving Crane as proud of was how cleanly he pocketed balls. Even if most of your shots are going in, try for the center of the pocket whenever possible.
Playing conditions are critical. Where I play, the felt is now very old, and dirty. The balls are pitted and come from a variety of sets. You can't even get a tight rack. Needless to say, running balls is difficult. When the felt is replaced, my ball runs increase dramatically.
I would suggest playing on lose (generous) pockets. The rail should be in good shape with new/clean felt. Provide your own polished balls. My other advice is to get into a ball pocketing mode....you need to learn to walk before you run. Simple spread all 15 balls out on the table with none touching, take ball in hand, and run balls. Run 100 doing this and you now have the "foundation" for playing position and the "ability" to "string racks". Next step, of course, is to play for break shots, and learn to break out clusters.
Running 100 can be done for you, but it is a serious discipline. Don't get to obsessed over the number, just attempt to play correctly regardless of the score.
Doug
I would suggest playing on lose (generous) pockets. The rail should be in good shape with new/clean felt. Provide your own polished balls. My other advice is to get into a ball pocketing mode....you need to learn to walk before you run. Simple spread all 15 balls out on the table with none touching, take ball in hand, and run balls. Run 100 doing this and you now have the "foundation" for playing position and the "ability" to "string racks". Next step, of course, is to play for break shots, and learn to break out clusters.
Running 100 can be done for you, but it is a serious discipline. Don't get to obsessed over the number, just attempt to play correctly regardless of the score.
Doug
Allow me to repeat and emphasize,
"...just attempt to play correctly regardless of the score."
Amen.
good thread. my high run is 32 so it's pretty close to that 35 as described above. i consistently am able to get 10 to 20 balls on a daily basis, now trying to play 14.1 on a daily basis.
i'll be using advice written above to improve my 14.1 game. i also keep score sheets and make an average of balls per miss(or scratch). i find it's a good way to track your improvement. this was shown to me by a pro, alain martel, who practices 14.1 everyday to keep his pool game.
basically each time you miss, you count the number of balls potted and you write it down. you can do that for 2 hours then see your ball average.
my average was below 3 a month ago when i started to practice 14.1 again, now it's above 3, and getting close to 4, sometimes over 4.
leaving the key ball and break shot definitely improved my scores, but i seemed to always miss my break shot, although recently i started pocketing my break shots, thus my ball average improved instantly, i bet it can be close to 5 soon.
i know my high run is 32 but i feel like i can get to 50 easily. the reason i don't get past 25 balls ( i had a 24 , 23, and 26 run in past 3 days), is mainly because of mental errors, or for example missing a side pocket shot... clearing mental errors and taking more time to think about your next moves should really improve that score, but a lot more mental power is needed for that. a good tea to relax the mind before or during the game should help
i'll be using advice written above to improve my 14.1 game. i also keep score sheets and make an average of balls per miss(or scratch). i find it's a good way to track your improvement. this was shown to me by a pro, alain martel, who practices 14.1 everyday to keep his pool game.
basically each time you miss, you count the number of balls potted and you write it down. you can do that for 2 hours then see your ball average.
my average was below 3 a month ago when i started to practice 14.1 again, now it's above 3, and getting close to 4, sometimes over 4.
leaving the key ball and break shot definitely improved my scores, but i seemed to always miss my break shot, although recently i started pocketing my break shots, thus my ball average improved instantly, i bet it can be close to 5 soon.
i know my high run is 32 but i feel like i can get to 50 easily. the reason i don't get past 25 balls ( i had a 24 , 23, and 26 run in past 3 days), is mainly because of mental errors, or for example missing a side pocket shot... clearing mental errors and taking more time to think about your next moves should really improve that score, but a lot more mental power is needed for that. a good tea to relax the mind before or during the game should help
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I've always been of an opposite mind on this. I think the idea of keeping some kind of score to track progress is meant to be an incentive to see your improvement over time. I think it's a bit of a time-waster to write everything down, unless you really need to do that in order to stay motivated.
Everybody, even in this thread, says not to worry about how many balls you are running, and just concentrate on performing each shot. Along those same lines, why distract yourself with scoring every run?
I get motivation out of learning which shots I have trouble with, and then figuring out how to master them. Think to yourself, "OK, why didn't I run out that rack?" Figure out where you went wrong, whether it be a strategic error, or something wrong with your stroke, and work on it until you own it. Keep doing this and your runs will go up and up. You won't have to wonder how your average is doing, you'll know you are going in the right direction.
I think having a separate task of writing everything down distracts your conscious and subconscious from making observations about what is happening on the table. (Just my own psychobabble opinion).
to coin a phrase
You can get lucky and run fifty, but you cannot get lucky and run 100. However if you do run fifty you will in time and with welling study eventually run 100 points. Remember that when approaching your p.r. that controlling the adrenaline and staying relaxed is a key factor to success. I wish you the best in getting lost in the land of 14.1 - remember to attack the stack and keep your eye on the ball - no matter if your unsure on whether or not the white will scratch off the stack. Get with a great player who can communicate to help examine practice drills, practice staying above the ball. Developing a solid pre shot routine will help also, stay positive and have fun visualizing yourself playing with confidence and let it happen. I would also add that every time you surpass your high run while practicing it does wonders for your confidence - that is if the game of 14.1 really has any significance or purpose to the player holding the cue and or running racks.
Once I had practiced 1000 breakshots I finally quit taking my eye off the ball, except the other day.
You can get lucky and run fifty, but you cannot get lucky and run 100. However if you do run fifty you will in time and with welling study eventually run 100 points. Remember that when approaching your p.r. that controlling the adrenaline and staying relaxed is a key factor to success. I wish you the best in getting lost in the land of 14.1 - remember to attack the stack and keep your eye on the ball - no matter if your unsure on whether or not the white will scratch off the stack. Get with a great player who can communicate to help examine practice drills, practice staying above the ball. Developing a solid pre shot routine will help also, stay positive and have fun visualizing yourself playing with confidence and let it happen. I would also add that every time you surpass your high run while practicing it does wonders for your confidence - that is if the game of 14.1 really has any significance or purpose to the player holding the cue and or running racks.
Once I had practiced 1000 breakshots I finally quit taking my eye off the ball, except the other day.
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Lessons
I've been taking some lessons to improve my fundamentals. After trying several instructors, I found one that I really like and I am sure after I master what he is teaching me, my runs will start to go up fast. I'm so glad I am taking the time and effort to work on the basics, I realized most of my runs end do to missing routine shots. I didn't know it about myself but I haven't been staying still or keeping my head down while stroking. Getting this one flaw worked out will help with my consistency big time. When I miss he says I am moving. When I stay down I split the pocket right down the center every time.
I've been taking some lessons to improve my fundamentals. After trying several instructors, I found one that I really like and I am sure after I master what he is teaching me, my runs will start to go up fast. I'm so glad I am taking the time and effort to work on the basics, I realized most of my runs end do to missing routine shots. I didn't know it about myself but I haven't been staying still or keeping my head down while stroking. Getting this one flaw worked out will help with my consistency big time. When I miss he says I am moving. When I stay down I split the pocket right down the center every time.
Who's your instructer, out of curiosity?
Chuck Nelson, I'm not sure about the spelling of his last name...