9 ball rule question

jed1894

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's say a breaker miss cued on the break and before the ball hit anything, he raked the ball to the rail to avoid disturbing the rack. Per the rules, it's a foul of course and next guy has ball in hand. Anything else?

A link to a rule, etc would be great.

Thanks, Jed
 
Here's the World Standardized rule:

2.3 Legal Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) the cue ball begins in hand behind the head string; and
(b) if no ball is pocketed, at least four object balls must be driven to one or more rails, or the shot is a foul.
Click to expand...

Here's the link to the WSRs: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play

and the BCAPL rule:

3.3 Break Requirements
1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string. The cue ball must contact the 1-ball before any other ball or cushion or it is a foul. You must either pocket a ball or cause at least four object balls to contact one or more cushions, or it is a foul.
Click to expand...

Here's the link (page 39):

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx
 
I believe if the guy broke and missed the cueball mostly and it starts rolling....it will be only a foul if it makes it past the headstring.
If he catches it BEFORE it crosses the headstring....it is not considered a breakshot yet.
If I remember right, for a breakshot the cueball must be hit with the tip of the cue and it has to cross the headstring.
 
With no literature to back up this claim, it's been my understanding that it's not a foul, until you make a legal break you can miscue and, even if you contact the 1 first, unless a ball goes in or 4 hit a rail, it's a rerack and still your break.
 
Miscue on break.

jed1894 said:
Let's say a breaker miss cued on the break and before the ball hit anything, he raked the ball to the rail to avoid disturbing the rack. Per the rules, it's a foul of course and next guy has ball in hand. Anything else?

A link to a rule, etc would be great.

Thanks, Jed
Click to expand...

Certainly there are rules for every situation. At a higher level or playoffs or some money involved I would go by the rules. In regular weekly play all players should laugh and throw the guy some chalk and attack his masculinity. The miscuing breaker should stare at his tip like it's equipment failure. It's league play, have fun, lighten up!
 
nope sorry

Kimmo said:
I believe if the guy broke and missed the cueball mostly and it starts rolling....it will be only a foul if it makes it past the headstring.
If he catches it BEFORE it crosses the headstring....it is not considered a breakshot yet.
If I remember right, for a breakshot the cueball must be hit with the tip of the cue and it has to cross the headstring.
Click to expand...

No sorry that is wrong.

18. Deflecting Cue Ball on Opening Break
It may be that the player miscues on a break shot and tries to prevent the
cue ball from following its normal path by deflecting it with his cue stick or by some other means.
This practice and other similar practices are absolutely forbidden under the unsportsmanlike conduct rule,
Rule 6.16(b). Players must never intentionally touch any ball in play except
with a forward stroke of the cue tip on the cue ball.
The penalty for such a foul will be determined by the referee according to the unsportsmanlike conduct guidelines in Rule 6.16.
 
When you say per the rules, my first reaction to this post was loss of game. As the poster above says, you cant be messing with a moving cb in pool..... that is just a huge no no. There is a very strong argument for loss of game here "per the rules" I would say.
 
DallasHopps said:
With no literature to back up this claim, it's been my understanding that it's not a foul, until you make a legal break you can miscue and, even if you contact the 1 first, unless a ball goes in or 4 hit a rail, it's a rerack and still your break.
Click to expand...

As soon as the cueball passes the headstring on a break the game starts, it's a shot and missing the 1 on the shot is a foul. It would be like a drag racer spinning out at the start and calling a do-over because he lost traction and did not move forward enough.

Although I though on the break it was the other person's break and not ball in hand.
 
Last edited:
hang-the-9 said:
As soon as the cueball passes the headstring on a break the game starts, ...
Click to expand...
No, as soon as the tip hits the cue ball, the game is on. The "crosses the headstring" thing used to be in the rules but it is no longer. Touch the cue ball with your tip and it's a shot no matter how far the cue ball goes, even on the break shot.
 
The Chinchilla said:
As the poster above says, you cant be messing with a moving cb in pool..... that is just a huge no no.
Click to expand...

This habit some people have of stopping a cue ball after a miscue on the break shot is one of the things that drives me bonkers. In the APA league I play in, it is not a foul UNTIL the rack is struck. I see a lot of players stop a miscued cue ball on their break shots, I guess so it won't "disturb" the rack and time won't be wasted waiting for the balls to be re-racked. Here is the problem with that rule, IMO: Let's say that you are playing in APA Masters League where the 9 or 8-ball on the snap counts as a win. Let's say the match is hill-hill and your opponent is breaking (or you could be in a regular APA 9-ball match where the two players each need 2 points or less). A 9-on-the-snap here means a win for the breaker. He breaks, miscues, and the cueball is heading for the rack. He stops the cueball with his cuestick and repositions it and breaks and makes the 9 for the win. Now, on his first break attempt, what if he would have let the cueball continue on its path and it would have struck the rack, caromed off a ball and SCRATCHED??? Then, not only would the other person not have gotten the loss, but they would then have had the chance for the win themselves. IMO, this very reason alone is why stopping a moving cue ball should ALWAYS be a foul under ANY circumstance!!! No exceptions.

Maniac
 
I agree with the unsportmanlike conduct ruling. But what if the referee decides simply to give BIH to the opponent.

Can opponent place the CB almost touching the 1 ball, and give the whole rack a big whack?
 
ignomirello said:
No sorry that is wrong.

18. Deflecting Cue Ball on Opening Break
It may be that the player miscues on a break shot and tries to prevent the
cue ball from following its normal path by deflecting it with his cue stick or by some other means.
This practice and other similar practices are absolutely forbidden under the unsportsmanlike conduct rule,
Rule 6.16(b). Players must never intentionally touch any ball in play except
with a forward stroke of the cue tip on the cue ball.
The penalty for such a foul will be determined by the referee according to the unsportsmanlike conduct guidelines in Rule 6.16.
Click to expand...

This would work in a referee-based tounry. I read all the rules you posted here and all pretty say questionable things up to the referee. Under this section of rules, if I get out of chair to tie my shoe or go to bathroom, I could lose the game if the the ref decided so. The situation I'm talking about would be a bar or club with no refs......just the players. The way I see it so far, it is a foul and ball in hand for the opponent......or he could make the breaker try again.

Thanks to all
 
MitchAlsup said:
I agree with the unsportmanlike conduct ruling. But what if the referee decides simply to give BIH to the opponent.

Can opponent place the CB almost touching the 1 ball, and give the whole rack a big whack?
Click to expand...
That would probably be a double hit which is a foul. A better play in that situation is to play thin off the one ball to roll the cue ball to the side cushion and then to the center of the foot rail.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That would probably be a double hit which is a foul. A better play in that situation is to play thin off the one ball to roll the cue ball to the side cushion and then to the center of the foot rail.
Click to expand...

I actually saw Parica do this in Vegas to three foul his opponent.;)

Bob, this brings up a question. With BIH, can you "carefully" place the cue ball frozen to another ball? Or is this considered de facto disturbing a ball?

I'm just thinking, can you freeze the CB to the stack and give it a wallop?
 
This is probably the number one problem with pool as a whole. There are no "rules". You have to be specific about whose rules your playing with.

In APA, there can be no foul before the rack is struck.

Under other rule sets, as mentioned, there are a variety of rules that cover this situation.
 
BCAPL ruling, and other observations...

In BCAPL play, the OP situation leaves no room for doubt as to rule or penalty. First offense, foul and warning that subsequent offenses are loss of game. Second and subsequent offenses, loss of game. BCAPL Rule 1-40-c applies.

As observed, the violation of WSR 6.16(b) is penalized at the discretion of the referee.

DogsPlayingPool said:
With BIH, can you "carefully" place the cue ball frozen to another ball? Or is this considered de facto disturbing a ball? I'm just thinking, can you freeze the CB to the stack and give it a wallop?
Click to expand...

Not in WSR or BCAPL. Foul in both - vioation of BCAPL 1-38-4, WSR 6.6 second sentence.

:smile:

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
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* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
 
Maniac said:
This habit some people have of stopping a cue ball after a miscue on the break shot is one of the things that drives me bonkers. In the APA league I play in, it is not a foul UNTIL the rack is struck. I see a lot of players stop a miscued cue ball on their break shots, I guess so it won't "disturb" the rack and time won't be wasted waiting for the balls to be re-racked. Here is the problem with that rule, IMO: Let's say that you are playing in APA Masters League where the 9 or 8-ball on the snap counts as a win. Let's say the match is hill-hill and your opponent is breaking (or you could be in a regular APA 9-ball match where the two players each need 2 points or less). A 9-on-the-snap here means a win for the breaker. He breaks, miscues, and the cueball is heading for the rack. He stops the cueball with his cuestick and repositions it and breaks and makes the 9 for the win. Now, on his first break attempt, what if he would have let the cueball continue on its path and it would have struck the rack, caromed off a ball and SCRATCHED??? Then, not only would the other person not have gotten the loss, but they would then have had the chance for the win themselves. IMO, this very reason alone is why stopping a moving cue ball should ALWAYS be a foul under ANY circumstance!!! No exceptions.

Maniac
Click to expand...



Could not agree more with what you have said. Ive seen your senario played out before and its total BS if you ask me. Well said
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I actually saw Parica do this in Vegas to three foul his opponent.;)

Bob, this brings up a question. With BIH, can you "carefully" place the cue ball frozen to another ball? Or is this considered de facto disturbing a ball?

I'm just thinking, can you freeze the CB to the stack and give it a wallop?
Click to expand...
Touching a ball with the cue ball while in hand is a foul, so it's really hard to freeze the cue ball. Remember that it's not frozen unless declared as such, so you basically have to get your opponent to agree that you just fouled.
 
Bob Jewett said:
No, as soon as the tip hits the cue ball, the game is on. The "crosses the headstring" thing used to be in the rules but it is no longer. Touch the cue ball with your tip and it's a shot no matter how far the cue ball goes, even on the break shot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. This tip hit makes more sense than the headstring rule.

So let's say that you are moving a ball around with ball in hand,and are using the stick/ferrule to position it. Many people do that. You push it with your tip accidently instead of the side of the shaft/ferrule, nothing else gets hit, no rail, no other ball. Is that now a "shot" and you fouled? Or does the "shot" start when you get in stance and start the stoke (like the rule in baseball where you check your swing and it's not a strike till you break the plane).
 
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