What do you think of this seam?

When you started this thread, you knew someone was going to get trashed.
You just didn't think it would be you for using bad judgment.
Have you never seen a quality leather wrap install?
You wanted a cheap wrap job and that's what you got.
You both could have done better.
Your first red-flag was a $50 quote for a leather wrap. What did you expect???

I'm not defending the installer. If he's going to do leather, he needs to get better.
But I can understand why he's reluctant to offer you a redo.
He's already lost money doing the job he has for you, he's not about to lose more.
There's a reason that leather wrap installs cost what they do.
Perfect doesn't come cheap. You want perfect, be prepared to pay for it.
You see what cheap gets you.

Ryan is making you one hell of an offer. I wouldn't.
I'm not in the habit of giving my work away for free.
Nor am I in the habit of rewarding someone for bad decisions.
If I were you, I would have the cue in the mail to Ryan today before he wakes up.

KJ
 
KJ Cues said:
When you started this thread, you knew someone was going to get trashed.
You just didn't think it would be you for using bad judgment.
Have you never seen a quality leather wrap install?
You wanted a cheap wrap job and that's what you got.
You both could have done better.
Your first red-flag was a $50 quote for a leather wrap. What did you expect???

I'm not defending the installer. If he's going to do leather, he needs to get better.
But I can understand why he's reluctant to offer you a redo.
He's already lost money doing the job he has for you, he's not about to lose more.
There's a reason that leather wrap installs cost what they do.
Perfect doesn't come cheap. You want perfect, be prepared to pay for it.
You see what cheap gets you.

Ryan is making you one hell of an offer. I wouldn't.
I'm not in the habit of giving my work away for free.
Nor am I in the habit of rewarding someone for bad decisions.
If I were you, I would have the cue in the mail to Ryan today before he wakes up.

KJ
Click to expand...

This is my first cue and a used one. I'm 62 and I retired last Friday.
The guys at a local pool hall said this guy his having a sale. He does good work, check him out.

I called him he said it was true and he said he would do the job. I trusted him.

Ryan is going way over the top in his offer and I acknowledged that.

Next time you wonder why the sport is declining in numbers read your last post. Trashing newbies never helps.
 
My two cents...
If you are the person offering the work and you quote someone a price, it doesn't matter if you lose money or not. You should learn to price you work better. Just because you didn't charge the right amount does not give you a free pass because your work is shitty. Maybe the OP doesn't know what a leather wrap should cost. He isn't the one offering the work, why should he. The repairman can charge $100, but that doesn't make his work any better.
 
This thread is just wrong, wrong, wrong in so many ways.
KJ buried the nail again with his 24oz hammer....thanks for the chuckle.
 
Gio Sr. said:
This is my first cue and a used one. I'm 62 and I retired last Friday.
The guys at a local pool hall said this guy his having a sale. He does good work, check him out.

I called him he said it was true and he said he would do the job. I trusted him.

Ryan is going way over the top in his offer and I acknowledged that.

Next time you wonder why the sport is declining in numbers read your last post. Trashing newbies never helps.
Click to expand...

I'm not in trashing mode - but I think you set yourself up for problems
with your wording - asking what I call a "Dr Phil" question.

Sidebar: I don't think much of the guy, but I did hear him make an
excellent point once. Someone asked what used to be called a 'leading'
question, ie one only intended to elicit a certain response. He said this
wasn't a question at all, only a statement in disguise.

So, I am going to do something I don't normally approve of: make
an assumption. And we all know where that can lead.

I'm guessing you knew full well this was far less than an acceptable job,
and you wanted "experts" to validate your feelings.

IMHO - if you had just stated up front your opinion and experience with
the guy who did the work, and asked something like "am I right to be disapointed"
you likely wouldn't have gotten nearly so much flack.

But I could be wrong.

Dale
 
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ratcues said:
If you pay shipping both ways, I'll put the same type of wrap on for free to help you out. I hate seeing someone get screwed...
Click to expand...

Ryan, you are indeed a gentleman with a heart of gold. I'll keep you in mind if I ever have leather installed on another cue.
 
KJ Cues said:
Ryan is making you one hell of an offer. I wouldn't.I'm not in the habit of giving my work away for free.
Nor am I in the habit of rewarding someone for bad decisions.
If I were you, I would have the cue in the mail to Ryan today before he wakes up.

KJ
Click to expand...

I don't hold it against him, the fact that he gave this repairman a chance. He wanted a leather wrap, had a couple of guys refer him, so I think that would be enough for me to try. Hell, I was there too. Someone had to be the first to send stuff to me. For that I am grateful.

My gesture comes from the fact that the repair guy isn't willing to make it right. That's part of the deal when you get into this business. If that is the best he can do, he won't last long, especially if he doesn't try to rectify this. Word of mouth is gold...
 
ELBeau said:
I think you just learned that a quality leather wrap will cost you more than 50 bucks. You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

i have seen a top tier cue builder charge 200+ for a cheap pig skin wrap and do a much, much... MUCH worse job then this, its unreal what some guys get away with. (i wish i took photos)
 
Gio Sr. said:
This is my first cue and a used one. I'm 62 and I retired last Friday.
The guys at a local pool hall said this guy his having a sale. He does good work, check him out.

I called him he said it was true and he said he would do the job. I trusted him.

Ryan is going way over the top in his offer and I acknowledged that.

Next time you wonder why the sport is declining in numbers read your last post. Trashing newbies never helps.
Click to expand...

You really shouldn't be so sensitive. When you were told this guy does good work, did you ever have a look at one of his previous wraps? How much does he normally charge? How did you know 50.00 was a good price without doing some research?

The FIRST thing you should have done was asked that he make it right, but instead you paid and walked away because of his poor attitude. Then you show it to your friends who say it looks like crap and then post it on here without asking the person who did it to make it right.

Then Ryan offers to make it perfect for FREE and you criticize KJ, saying guys like him are the reason the sport is declining.

With all due respect sir, what more do you want than an offer for a free leather wrap from one of the best in the business?
 
ratcues said:
I don't hold it against him, the fact that he gave this repairman a chance. He wanted a leather wrap, had a couple of guys refer him, so I think that would be enough for me to try. Hell, I was there too. Someone had to be the first to send stuff to me. For that I am grateful.

My gesture comes from the fact that the repair guy isn't willing to make it right. That's part of the deal when you get into this business. If that is the best he can do, he won't last long, especially if he doesn't try to rectify this. Word of mouth is gold...
Click to expand...

I beg to differ............I DO hold it against him for excepting the job after it was completed and handed to him. This should have never made it to the forum with a "is this alright" type of question.
I don't normally knock others work unless it's screams pile of horseshit. Whether the job cost $10 or $300 the completed work is not acceptable...PERIOD, end of story.
This type of work gives the craft a bad name.


edit.....after thinking about this and then going back to read again/ you are correct Ryan someone did have to be the first to send you something but I know for a fact you would have never left a piece of garbage out of your shop that looked like that unless you had just finished a double 12 pack right before completion. Then the next day you would gladly taken it back and made it right and probably PAID the customer for bringing it back and complaining.
Gio Sr.....the only reason the sport would be declining is because more jobs like this were excepted as being OK. You know in your heart that it was a craphole of a job when you came to the forums and asked. Grow some and go back to whom ever screwed you and demand your $ back or an exceptable job completed to your satisfaction.
Or just forget about it....which ever makes you happy.
 
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xpatcan1 said:
i have seen a top tier cue builder charge 200+ for a cheap pig skin wrap and do a much, much... MUCH worse job then this, its unreal what some guys get away with. (i wish i took photos)
Click to expand...

You gotta be kidding ?
I did see one famous maker's cue at the Bike Casino during a big tournament there. The wrap had waves in it b/c the handle looked it was hand sanded down or the lizard wrap was not even all over.
But, worse than the one posted would be something else.
 
Gio Sr. said:
My goal starting this thread was to find out if this workmanship was normal or really bad. I am surprised some of you chose to trash me and my judgement.
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I don't care about any of the judgement one way or the other but if you send me your leather installers name, valid phone number and email to my email address, I'll be happy to send him some info that will help him out. Not all leather belongs on a cue and every piece is different and not all glues work with every individual.
 
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Gio Sr. said:
My goal starting this thread was to find out if this workmanship was normal or really bad. I am surprised some of you chose to trash me and my judgement.
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I don't understand why you would be surprised. You are the one that paid for and excepted the job as being OK.
 
JoeyInCali said:
You gotta be kidding ?
I did see one famous maker's cue at the Bike Casino during a big tournament there. The wrap had waves in it b/c the handle looked it was hand sanded down or the lizard wrap was not even all over.
But, worse than the one posted would be something else.
Click to expand...

Hi Joey:
There are still a lot of old school boys out there who don't use a wrap magic or D'Angelo. These are great tools by the way and worth the money they charge for them, I borrowed one once to try from someone who had 3 of them, I think he sent me the wrong cross plate so I didn't persue it, just returned it. I found my own method and share with some of the guys, I don't put it on here because to much B.S. usually follows and it turns into who's right, and who's wrong, I say who cares. What ever works for the individual. I know a couple of old schoolers, who wife puts on the leather for them. Lizard wraps seeing you mentioned it, can be a different nightmare by itself. They are very seldom without scars or even unless someone has first sent it to be shaved. Yesterday was much different than today. As always, my best to you and yours.
 
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Gio Sr. said:
This is my first cue and a used one. I'm 62 and I retired last Friday.
The guys at a local pool hall said this guy his having a sale. He does good work, check him out.

I called him he said it was true and he said he would do the job. I trusted him.

Ryan is going way over the top in his offer and I acknowledged that.

Next time you wonder why the sport is declining in numbers read your last post. Trashing newbies never helps.
Click to expand...

I should probably let this go because you seem to have your problem solved.
What I can't let go is the assertion that I'm the reason that pool is in the dumpster.
I'll admit, I'm not a nice guy. Ryan's a nice guy, I'm not.
I'm the guy that will tell you things that your wife or your best friend won't tell you.
Not the truth that you WANT to hear but the truth that you NEED to hear.
I don't see that killing pool.

Given the additional information you've provided, I'm beginning to sense you were a bit naive
about all of this. I mean, 62 and your first cue, "newbie" is probably an appropriate description.
And therein may lie some of what led to the controversy contained in this thread.
Regardless of your age, you were still naive and therefore trusting.
Big mistake in pool, you just got hustled and your response was anticipated; you accepted it.
Forget about the original installer, he won't help you. He's incapable of helping you.
It takes the same amount of time to do a bad job as it does a good job.
If he could have done better, he would have.

"The guys at a local pool hall said this guy his having a sale. He does good work, check him out."

Have these guys seen your cue and if so, what was their response? Remember, they sent you to him.
Did you ask to see some of his previous work or did you buy in the blind?
Pool is not a game (or business) for blind trust. Every player out there is a hustler, they just won't admit it.
Ryan says you got screwed and I agree. Pool's been like this long before I arrived.

I hope that you enjoy your retirement and your time playing pool. You just need to get a little
smarter and you'll enjoy it more. I'm 64 so yeah, I've been to the fair a few times. I may not have seen
it all but I've seen a lot of it. I wish I could retire but I can't. Retirement won't even pay my taxes.
Besides, I enjoy my work too much to stop now.

Good Luck, KJ
 
Without getting into the backstory,this is what I have to say about the seam shown by the OP.

I've seen better wraps,but also seen worse as well. For example I looked at 5 different leather-wrapped Predator P2's that made the pic shown here look like Gus did it :(.

I haven't even tried to do one yet,but wouldn't do one for a customer until I've wasted 50 or so learning to match it up right.

The pinnacle of this technique in my mind is the very first Cognoscenti I ever laid eyes on. That cue had a very similar looking wrap on it but I swear Ribdoner and myself looked at it for 20 minutes with a 10x loupe and never did find the seam.

I still can't comprehend how it's done. Tommy D.
 
ratcues said:
I don't hold it against him, the fact that he gave this repairman a chance. He wanted a leather wrap, had a couple of guys refer him, so I think that would be enough for me to try. Hell, I was there too. Someone had to be the first to send stuff to me. For that I am grateful.

My gesture comes from the fact that the repair guy isn't willing to make it right. That's part of the deal when you get into this business. If that is the best he can do, he won't last long, especially if he doesn't try to rectify this. Word of mouth is gold...
Click to expand...

Yeah, what he says.
 
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