cut shot philosophy

When cutting an object ball, where do you prefer to strike the cue ball?

  • using Center Ball

    Votes: 46 31.3%

  • using High English

    Votes: 22 15.0%

  • using Low English

    Votes: 11 7.5%

  • using Outside English

    Votes: 60 40.8%

  • using Inside English

    Votes: 8 5.4%
  • Total voters
    147
youngstownkid

youngstownkid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if you have a cut shot for a money ball without the worry of a scratch, how would you make it?

would you hit center ball on the cue ball?

would you use draw? follow?

would you use outside english?

would you (ever) use inside english?

...and why?

(Assumption is that you have the option of using any of the options and still get shape you need. We're just talking about situations where you have options. There is a reason I didn't add an option for "whatever the position dictates", which is why i just have a scenario where you're shooting the money ball)
 
Last edited:
i would shoot in the manner i felt the most confident to make it
center ball would be my first option
follow and draw i probably wouldnt favor unless i had to avoid a scratch
real thin cut along the rail i might use inside english
outside english to help throw it in the pocket if necessary
 
Mark...Just to clarify...low english or high english would be inside or outside. Most instructors refer to english to describe sidespin, therefore draw and follow are not english shots, unless right or left is added. As Black-Balled said, there are many variables to the cut shot that would influence where I struck the CB (cut angle, stroke speed, CB position after shot...to name three).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

youngstownkid said:
if you have a cut shot for a money ball, how would you make it?

would you hit center ball on the cue ball?

would you use low english? high english?

would you use outside english?

would you (ever) use inside english?

...and why?
Click to expand...
 
i understand that is the case most of the time, however, many times you have options, and when it's the last ball on the table you usually have most of your options.

supergreenman said:
I didn't vote. Every situation demands that you use the appropriate English, not the English you prefer.
Click to expand...
 
Cut shot

that's impossible to say without knowing the shot. Each shot will determine what is the best english to use. Usually on the money ball, you just want to make it, and keep the cue ball from scratching.
 
I am the type of player that favors outside english. I feel like that is one of my strengths and therefore that is what I would look for in a potential pattern.

I recently had a long philosophical discussion on the subject with a player that I really look up to. I explained the type of player that I was, and that I had recently been struggling with making a switch to using more center ball. The player basically questions why I was so interested in making the switch. It turns out that he is the type of player that uses outside english on most of his shots when he can.

Anyway, this is where I'm coming from. Basically over the last few months I've been trying really hard to use center ball and therefore I've improved in that area a bit. Given the option I would still "go outside" whever possible.

I have made more of a commitment lately to practicing my weaknesses more and more, and therefore have lost a little confidence and momentum in my game. (Basically, I can't wait until golf season.) I was just curious if there was a "right" way to cut that ball in...
 
Last edited:
If the OP's question obviated the need for "what I wanted the cue ball to do afterwards" -- and instead it's just a matter of cinching the ball -- it's center-ball, all the way, every day. This is especially true on very tough / long distance cut shots, when I want to take deflection, swerve, and the effects of spin out of the mix.

For me, the question of "relying upon" spin/english to make cut shots is an Achilles Heel. If it's not needed (i.e. you're not using the spin to get the cue ball somewhere after pocketing the ball), you're introducing another couple of variables that you don't need.

It's better to practice center-ball cut shots to get used to them. Yes, you have to compensate for throw on certain angles. But that compensation is helpful knowledge, not a deterrent.

-Sean
 
The way I play the last ball is to play position for where I want the cue ball to stop. The last ball is treated no different than any other ball.

But to answer the question a little better is, if cutting the ball to the left I use HR, CR or LR, cutting the ball to the to the right I use HL, CL or LL.

I try to stay away from center ball due to whats called "cling" which will cause unwanted throw on the object ball. I turn the object ball into the pocket.

John
 
Given the option I prefer to use low outside english. I usually aim to just miss the pocket and let the spin take it in. This gives me the whole pocket to work with. I feel I can only miss if i put max outside or no outside at all.
 
Collision induced throw is highest with center ball. Gearing effect allows for some compensation, thus most folks seem to feel more comfortable with outside English, usually with a tad of draw...otherwise, you're compensating with aim point or a combination of both. Everyone's different, but if it were me and it's for the cheese, I'd have to say a little low, outside english. Outside of proposition shots or case balls, I'm every bit as concerned with cueball control as making the shot, so it depends.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Collision induced throw is highest with center ball. Gearing effect allows for some compensation, thus most folks seem to feel more comfortable with outside English, usually with a tad of draw...otherwise, you're compensating with aim point or a combination of both. Everyone's different, but if it were me and it's for the cheese, I'd have to say a little low, outside english. Outside of proposition shots or case balls, I'm every bit as concerned with cueball control as making the shot, so it depends.
Click to expand...

+1 :thumbup:

John
 
Excellent poll and post. I'm in the same camp as the OP and black-balled - since using CTE, I have a new found apprecation for center ball. I used to use a lot of helping (and sometimes not helping) english on cut shots, probably because of reading about CIT early on and deciding to compensate for it. I also always liked sighting what looked like a fuller hit on the object ball and throwing or turning the ball down the rail. For me at least, problem was always having to allow for the effects of striking the cue ball off center, seemed easy when I was playing a bunch, almost automatic, not so much so after taking time off from the game or not playing as much. Also occasionally under pressure it was easy to steer the ball or let up a little and get an undesired result.

I actually discussed this with Stan Shuffett a few months ago. I didn't want to keep overthinking things, and while I was enjoying a lot of success cutting balls with center that I used to always use a bit of outside on, I still wanted to make sure I was going about it in the generally thought of "correct" way. He agreed that draw, speed, and spin were methods of compensating for cling, and pros would use 1 or a combination when cutting a ball.

Between our discussion and my practice and results, for me if the ball is pretty thick, I feel comfortable just hitting it with pure center ball. If it's a thinner cut, say more than 45 degrees, same thing, I just put a good roll on the ball and hit it where I'm aiming. For angles in between, which is most normal cuts, I find that I have two options. If I hit it with a nice rolling ball at medium speed, it seems to minimize the CIT and the ball tracks properly. If I'm going to be using draw to hold the ball or have to hit it softer, then I prefer a 1/4 - 1/2 tip or so of outside english, I've found if the draw is not still pretty strong at point of contact it can be diminishing where it turns into stun and can cling enough to miss the ball. Of course the other option would be not to use english and just compensate with your aim for the expected cling.

I've really been working on this lately, and on the tight Diamonds I usually play on you get pretty good feedback, especially when the ball is near the rail, whether you hit it correctly or not. The biggest mistakes I see are when I intend to put a smooth, medium speed roll on the ball but ease up a bit and get unintentional cling, or when I plan to compensate for cling with outside english at certain angles and again don't hit it correctly and miss because of unintended squirt or curve.

Great question!
Scott
 
Exactly What I was thinking

West Point 1987 said:
Collision induced throw is highest with center ball. Gearing effect allows for some compensation, thus most folks seem to feel more comfortable with outside English, usually with a tad of draw...otherwise, you're compensating with aim point or a combination of both. Everyone's different, but if it were me and it's for the cheese, I'd have to say a little low, outside english. Outside of proposition shots or case balls, I'm every bit as concerned with cueball control as making the shot, so it depends.
Click to expand...

Def want to reduce the friction between the qb and the ob .
 
The reality is you need to learn to pocket balls every which way possible. Naturally, players develop confidence with certain english, like low and outside and tend to avoid others, like high and inside.

Jose Parica is a good example of a player who's mastered all types of english but he tends to punch the nine in with centerball. Wade Crane was just the opposite. He would cinch balls with centerball but would spin the nine in. Grady always said outside english was a more natural way to cut balls.

Personally, I've been adding alot of centerball into my game and it's been alot harder than I imagined. Sometimes the correct centerball aim looks like an optical illusion that couldn't possibly work. However, over time my eye is adjusting and it's become more natural.
 
I asked Sigel the same question and he said "outside" just because his first concern is preventing the skid.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
Low Outside... Always..... Unless it will lead to a scratch... Allows you to hit it with some pace and you get to hold onto the cue ball.... This of course is only if its the last ball on the table or the other balls are gimmes and you don't need shape......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top