Smoking at tournament matches

[Drew]

I have a problem when people use this argument. you are basically saying that smokers have more rights than non-smokers and if non-smokers don't like they should STFU and stay home.

NOW who's rights are being curtailed? You suggest non-smokers only go to places where people don't smoke.

Is there anybody else you'd like to marginalize?

No...I suggested that people who have such a big problem with smoking should only go to places where people don't smoke. It's YOUR condition. I have a friend who is claustrophobic. Guess where he doesn't go? Would it be fair to force all car manufacturers to make their vehicles at least 10ft wide and 8ft tall because my friend has a problem with small cars?

Now, if a pool room opened that did not allow smoking (let's say one of you guys owned the place). And then JoeyA plays in a tournament at this pool room and starts complaining about how you should be able to smoke in a pool room and demands the owner change his policy and then demands that all venues should allow smoking...basically the same situation, only in reverse. How would this make any sense? Why does it only make sense in one direction?

The answer is simple: because you're biased. You only want it to make sense in one direction. But it's the exact same situation both ways.

 

[Drew]

Smokers force non-smokers to make different choices than they would if said environment was smoke free. Ergo, Smokers are infringing on non-smokers who are infringing on smokers who are infringing on non-smokers etc.

As he said before, that is a circular argument.

Yes. And drivers force walkers to make different choices than they would if said environment was car free. Why don't we ban all cars too?

 

[supergreenman]

No...I suggested that people who have such a big problem with smoking should only go to places where people don't smoke. It's YOUR condition. I have a friend who is claustrophobic. Guess where he doesn't go? Would it be fair to force all car manufacturers to make their vehicles at least 10ft wide and 8ft tall because my friend has a problem with small cars?

Now, if a pool room opened that did not allow smoking (let's say one of you guys owned the place). And then JoeyA plays in a tournament at this pool room and starts complaining about how you should be able to smoke in a pool room and demands the owner change his policy and then demands that all venues should allow smoking...basically the same situation, only in reverse. How would this make any sense? Why does it only make sense in one direction?

The answer is simple: because you're biased. You only want it to make sense in one direction. But it's the exact same situation both ways.

And I'm suggesting it's not right to make people who are effected by the actions of others (who happen to be a minority) have to choose to go to an establishment or not.

A responsible addict would not inflict the dangers of his addiction onto others by his presence. Then again, some people would argue that addicts aren't responsible anyways. This thread would support that because once again smokers are crying that their rights are being trampled on and that if non-smokers don't like it they should just go away.

Well GFY

 

[lfigueroa]

For Joey

Joey I have had you on "Ignore" for months. My AZ experience is now, blessedly, 90% Joey-free.

However, occasionally I'll be perusing a thread and someone will quote you. Given that it doesn't offer a "Super-Ignore" feature, vBulletin shows someones post when someone else quotes that poster, even if they're on Ignore. I think in this thread it was John who quoted your original post and now Sean quoted your post where you mention me.

So, I hate to burst your bubble, bubba, but I'm not stalking you, I don't even see the vast major of your posts anymore. But I do have to say that it's reassuring to periodically see that you are as thin-skinned and paranoid as always

Lou Figueroa

 

[Drew]

And I'm suggesting it's not right to make people who are effected by the actions of others (who happen to be a minority) have to choose to go to an establishment or not.

A responsible addict would not inflict the dangers of his addiction onto others by his presence. Then again, some people would argue that addicts aren't responsible anyways. This thread would support that because once again smokers are crying that their rights are being trampled on and that if non-smokers don't like it they should just go away.

Well GFY

Reading comprehension is key. Not once have I said a word about the smoker's rights. This is about the rights of a business owner to run his business as he sees fit. If you don't like it, then go spend your money somewhere else. If enough people spend their money elsewhere, the business will either fail or make changes. I really don't care about the smoking issue. Smoke if you want to or don't, it makes no difference to me. And I have read the most frequently cited SHS studies which have all determined inconclusive results under conventional study regulations. However, in the case of something so emotionally charged, the analysts skew numbers to create a false claim.

Go ahead and believe all the hype about second hand smoke kills. They used to think the world was flat. Truth is there isn't enough evidence to determine one way or another whether SHS is a health concern. And these results are inconclusive at a spousal level (meaning 20+ years in close proximity with a smoker)...nevermind the twice a week pool player.

 

[mantis99]

I couldn't agree more!

 

[tomnan24]

IT'S SIMPLE REALLY!

If I own a house or a business I have a right to make the rules. So, if I own a poolroom and decide that I want to allow smoking(or not), the tournament directors, fans, and participants can decide if they want to go there or not.

Anyone else's thoughts are only opinions and do not count.

 

[steveharn]

Ignorance is Bliss

Smoking has practically "killed" the game of pool, just like it "kills" people who smoke and are exposed to it!

 

[Red Shoes]

I have "axed" this in a different thread but will also "axe" it here....First I agree...smoking is bad for you, I SMOKE wish I didn't but anyway....up until 4 or 5 years ago "smoking" was allowed in 99% of the rooms in the country. This is not a question for the kids (25 yrs old or younger), this is for the grown ups on AZB..."How did you guys ever learn to play pool...when as you were coming up in the pool world...you had to suffer through SMOKE FILLED pool rooms...to learn how to play"? Now I'm not being a smart ass but if you were playing lets say in 1980, did you know that if you just held out til the 21st century smoking would be banned in most places? Why would you not have taken up...lets say "synchronized swimming" (not alot of smokers in that pool) instead of "pocket billiards" in 1980? Where you guys just playing at your own houses (kings of your non-smoking basement) honing your skills waiting for the "BAN" to take effect, so you could unleash your smoke free skills on the pool world? You guys are obviously way ahead of the "curve", what else should I be watching for???

 

[Okie]

I have "axed" this in a different thread but will also "axe" it here....First I agree...smoking is bad for you, I SMOKE wish I didn't but anyway....up until 4 or 5 years ago "smoking" was allowed in 99% of the rooms in the country. This is not a question for the kids (25 yrs old or younger), this is for the grown ups on AZB..."How did you guys ever learn to play pool...when as you were coming up in the pool world...you had to suffer through SMOKE FILLED pool rooms...to learn how to play"? Now I'm not being a smart ass but if you were playing lets say in 1980, did you know that if you just held out til the 21st century smoking would be banned in most places? Why would you not have taken up...lets say "synchronized swimming" (not alot of smokers in that pool) instead of "pocket billiards" in 1980? Where you guys just playing at your own houses (kings of your non-smoking basement) honing your skills waiting for the "BAN" to take effect, so you could unleash your smoke free skills on the pool world? You guys are obviously way ahead of the "curve", what else should I be watching for???

I have thought the same. But I damn sure wished when I started back then I could have seen the front door a little more clearly (aka without smoke). In fact, I am not too sure that it wasn't just dust and not smoke in that old pool room! It was a great time though! Old dude kicking my butt at snooker!

 

[JoeyA]

Joey I have had you on "Ignore" for months. My AZ experience is now, blessedly, 90% Joey-free.

However, occasionally I'll be perusing a thread and someone will quote you. Given that it doesn't offer a "Super-Ignore" feature, vBulletin shows someones post when someone else quotes that poster, even if they're on Ignore. I think in this thread it was John who quoted your original post and now Sean quoted your post where you mention me.

So, I hate to burst your bubble, bubba, but I'm not stalking you, I don't even see the vast major of your posts anymore. But I do have to say that it's reassuring to periodically see that you are as thin-skinned and paranoid as always

Lou Figueroa

Sure, sure, sure......STALKER!

 

[lfigueroa]

I have "axed" this in a different thread but will also "axe" it here....First I agree...smoking is bad for you, I SMOKE wish I didn't but anyway....up until 4 or 5 years ago "smoking" was allowed in 99% of the rooms in the country. This is not a question for the kids (25 yrs old or younger), this is for the grown ups on AZB..."How did you guys ever learn to play pool...when as you were coming up in the pool world...you had to suffer through SMOKE FILLED pool rooms...to learn how to play"? Now I'm not being a smart ass but if you were playing lets say in 1980, did you know that if you just held out til the 21st century smoking would be banned in most places? Why would you not have taken up...lets say "synchronized swimming" (not alot of smokers in that pool) instead of "pocket billiards" in 1980? Where you guys just playing at your own houses (kings of your non-smoking basement) honing your skills waiting for the "BAN" to take effect, so you could unleash your smoke free skills on the pool world? You guys are obviously way ahead of the "curve", what else should I be watching for???

John, this is pretty much what I was saying a little ways back in this thread. I mean, come on, we all learned to play in smoked filled rooms. I used to come home with a black wide stripe across the front of my jeans from all the ash off the rails. My clothes stunk. I'd hang up my jacket and it would stink up the closet. Many pool rooms I went in to were like the final scene in Casablanca -- you could barely see the table from all the smoke. Going to the pool room was like going to the drag races -- what?! Burning rubber and gasoline fumes?! What a surprise.

Now you have the cajun dainty starting to whine about *one guy* puffing and blowing a little smoke his way. It is more than laughable.

Lou Figueroa

 

[champ2107]

John, this is pretty much what I was saying a little ways back in this thread. I mean, come on, we all learned to play in smoked filled rooms. I used to come home with a black wide stripe across the front of my jeans from all the ash off the rails. My clothes stunk. I'd hang up my jacket and it would stink up the closet. Many pool rooms I went in to were like the final scene in Casablanca -- you could barely see the table from all the smoke. Going to the pool room was like going to the drag races -- what?! Burning rubber and gasoline fumes?! What a surprise.

Now you have the cajun dainty starting to whine about *one guy* puffing and blowing a little smoke his way. It is more than laughable.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JoeyA]

:killingme::killingme::killingme:

 

[UGOTDA7]

There you go contradicting yourself again, Jeff. You say that if someone doesn't like the conditions of the establishment (smoke in a pool hall), that they can choose to not go to said establishment. How is this different than choosing not to fly because you don't like the body scanners? YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY!!!

Go ahead, reason your way out...

:thumbup:

Bump for CJ since he seems to have missed this.

 

[Masayoshi]

Yes. And drivers force walkers to make different choices than they would if said environment was car free. Why don't we ban all cars too?

I dunno, you tell me, that was just the result of using your logic to stop people from "infringing" on others. My argument is that using good judgement and sensibility, there is nothing wrong with making smokers smoke outside. It improves the health of both the smoker and non-smoker, makes pool more mainstream friendly, and keeps the pool room cleaner. What are the downsides?

 

[Masayoshi]

What force are you talking about?

I NEVER claimed to be against discrimnation. In fact, I praised it and upheld the right to it, right here on this thread-!

And I get acccused of not reading what others say!

Point out ONE hypocritical thing I've advocated. One.

My standard, THE standard of my arguments here are PROPERTY RIGHTS. Every argument I've made here comes from that axiomatic reality.

wow.

Suggestion: Come on over to NPR for a few months and learn a few things about these concepts before speaking of 'em. A lot of wise Persons discuss those often there. There's no crime in not understanding such things, but when you post as if you know something you obviously don't know, it harms you, not me.

Jeff Livingston

So you support discrimination. I got it.

Your standard comes from property rights? You think discrimination is a right? You would probably be sore to learn that there has been much progress made in the last 50 years or so called the Civil Rights Act, ADA, etc. not to mention building, health, and safety codes which prevent owners from discriminating as they would like despite it being their property.

I see you have taken your own advide to heart. 22,000 posts on a pool forum and I would guess the vast majority of it has nothing to do with pool. You say there are wise people on NPR? I say that is not a wise use of your time.

 

[ShootingArts]

gotta say things have changed a wee bit

John, this is pretty much what I was saying a little ways back in this thread. I mean, come on, we all learned to play in smoked filled rooms. I used to come home with a black wide stripe across the front of my jeans from all the ash off the rails. My clothes stunk. I'd hang up my jacket and it would stink up the closet. Many pool rooms I went in to were like the final scene in Casablanca -- you could barely see the table from all the smoke. Going to the pool room was like going to the drag races -- what?! Burning rubber and gasoline fumes?! What a surprise.

Now you have the cajun dainty starting to whine about *one guy* puffing and blowing a little smoke his way. It is more than laughable.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

What you say is spot on as far as old conditions of course. Usually no air conditioning either, maybe a big fan in the wall sucking in dirt and fumes if we were lucky. However I also came up when some cars didn't even have seat belts, respirators were unheard of in the plants, asking for earplugs working two feet away from a 36' long turbine was a sure sign you were a wuss, we hung and stripped asbestos barehanded and blew clouds of it around the shop. Safety harness or belts 200 feet in the air? Something else for sissies!

Of course there was a quick fix for deliberate sharking then as we all know and it didn't involve a TD. I recall somebody that was sharking in a gambling match falling asleep in midgame, nobody noticed.

Things have changed. I don't have the physical tolerance I had as a kid and I'm a hell of a lot smarter too. Weighing all of the costs, not just cash, is why you are unlikely to see or hear of me playing in a tournament. Likely return doesn't justify time and effort especially when I have to plug in several days of hacking and coughing up crap after the event and not getting my work done.

If I hadn't learned a thing in forty years or so it would be sad. There are several books worth of things that I did that showed poor judgment before I turned 25. Hopefully my judgment is a little better now, most of the time!

Hu

 

[Spider1]

I went to Burger King the other day and asked for a Big Mac and they refused to sell me one. Talk about limiting my rights and discriminating against me as a customer!!! Anyone know any lawyers?!

And what's with the bar by my house having nothing but country music on the jukebox?? That's limiting my choices and discriminating against me, I have a right to go in there and have them cater to me specifically! Someone oughta pass a law!!

Your standard comes from property rights? You think discrimination is a right?

 

[Masayoshi]

I went to Burger King the other day and asked for a Big Mac and they refused to sell me one. Talk about limiting my rights and discriminating against me as a customer!!! Anyone know any lawyers?!

And what's with the bar by my house having nothing but country music on the jukebox?? That's limiting my choices and discriminating against me, I have a right to go in there and have them cater to me specifically! Someone oughta pass a law!!

You certainly can be discriminated against in some cases, but by no means is it a right. What can and can't be discriminated against can change as quickly as laws can be made (or repealed).