Are the long straight ins really the toughest shot?

A

AimWithYourMind

Banned
Allow me to elaborate.

I have read many posts here exclaiming that the long straight in shots are the toughest.

My response is: Do you really know that is the toughest shot?

Is your percentage on long straight shots worse than your percentage on long extreme cut shots?

My hypothesis is that there is a tendency for players to have a lower percentage of success on long extreme cut shots than on long straight in cut shots.

I feel this error in judgment comes from your perception that a straight in shot SHOULD be easier than it is. Your mind tells you that you should not miss a straight in shot. So when your expected success rate is lower than your actual success rate, you feel that the shot is more difficult than it truly is.

When you are shooting a long extreme cut shot, your mind tells you that it is a very difficult shot. Your expectations are not too high on these shots. So when your actual success rate is similar to your expected success rate, you don't underestimate the difficulty of the shot.

When you consider these two effects, it is easy to see why we may think that a long straight in shot is easier than a long extreme cut shot.

You will hear that the long straight in shot is the hardest shot on the table, and you should practice it more. That is referred to as conventional wisdom. And as you can now see, conventional wisdom is often wrong.
 
The long straight in has to be shot... It should be a high percentage shot but it is very very often missed....

The long thin cuts you talk about should normally be played safe off of or shot as 2 ways....

You'll go broke shooting long thin cuts on a diamond 9footer.......

So is the long straight in the toughest shot on the table??? Absolutely not... But it is the toughest shot you should be shooting at almost 100% of the time for many people.....
 
for me yes, especially when you are near a rail. Very easy to put unwanted spin....
 
Slh said:
for me yes, especially when you are near a rail. Very easy to put unwanted spin....
Click to expand...

Now you have added an extra variable.

So, I want to take two scenarios.

1. Long straight shot, cueball frozen to rail.

2. Long 45 degree cut, cueball frozen to rail.


Which shot do you think you will have a better success rate? Can you not put unwanted spin on the straight in shot and a cut shot?
 
For each shot you have to deliver the cueball in a straight line to the target. So, simplified, each stroke is usualy the same. Each shot is tough, and so you can say also that each shot is easy.
 
AimWithYourMind said:
Now you have added an extra variable.

So, I want to take two scenarios.

1. Long straight shot, cueball frozen to rail.

2. Long 45 degree cut, cueball frozen to rail.


Which shot do you think you will have a better success rate? Can you not put unwanted spin on the straight in shot and a cut shot?
Click to expand...

i don't know why but is easier to me the cut with the cueball frozen on the rail... also even if you give a little unwanted spin you can compensate for that, i find much harder to do it on a straight in shot.
 
AimWithYourMind said:
Allow me to elaborate.

I have read many posts here exclaiming that the long straight in shots are the toughest.

My response is: Do you really know that is the toughest shot?

Is your percentage on long straight shots worse than your percentage on long extreme cut shots?

My hypothesis is that there is a tendency for players to have a lower percentage of success on long extreme cut shots than on long straight in cut shots.

I feel this error in judgment comes from your perception that a straight in shot SHOULD be easier than it is. Your mind tells you that you should not miss a straight in shot. So when your expected success rate is lower than your actual success rate, you feel that the shot is more difficult than it truly is.

When you are shooting a long extreme cut shot, your mind tells you that it is a very difficult shot. Your expectations are not too high on these shots. So when your actual success rate is similar to your expected success rate, you don't underestimate the difficulty of the shot.

When you consider these two effects, it is easy to see why we may think that a long straight in shot is easier than a long extreme cut shot.

You will hear that the long straight in shot is the hardest shot on the table, and you should practice it more. That is referred to as conventional wisdom. And as you can now see, conventional wisdom is often wrong.
Click to expand...

Hardest shots on the table are the ones with cb and ob far apart and you need to put inside on the cb.
Straight in shots the anwers obvious.
Take someone with good fundamentals and ask him to choose between the straight in long shot or the long shot that requires inside and i bet they choose straight in all day.
 
The reason they're difficult is because spin induced throw is at a maximum so cueing errors are not only amplified but being a straight in, error is equally prevelent on both and left side misses. Also when the length between the CB, the OB and the pocket are all at the maximum for the size the table so is the realised range of error to pocket. Additionally the shot introduces a wider range of depth and vision related sighting issues less apparent in cut shots. And lastly, you have no real bailout on the miss. There's no 'pro' side miss, 2 way shot or back up safety options.

IMO. :)
 
.

For me it is long straight shot when the CB is frozen to a OB. It is difficult to get the CB to go straight. Especially if there are other balls close by that interfer with getting a decent bridge.

.
 
first of all none of these shots are hard. Work is hard.
However... there are 2 factors that make any given shot less likely to go in.
Distance and angle. the thinner the hit or greater distance apart cue ball and object ball are from each other the less margin for error in the hit.
the long straight shot just needs to be stroked in, point and shoot. aiming not required. If you gave a 5 year old a stick and set it up I guarantee he would point it in the right direction.
assuming we are only talking about making the ball, not cue ball position, the only reason to miss this shot is a bad stroke.
steven
 
driven said:
first of all none of these shots are hard. Work is hard.
However... there are 2 factors that make any given shot less likely to go in.
Distance and angle. the thinner the hit or greater distance apart cue ball and object ball are from each other the less margin for error in the hit.
the long straight shot just needs to be stroked in, point and shoot. aiming not required. If you gave a 5 year old a stick and set it up I guarantee he would point it in the right direction.
assuming we are only talking about making the ball, not cue ball position, the only reason to miss this shot is a bad stroke.
steven
Click to expand...

Agreed. Just for "stroke accuracy" purposes, I like to put a ball near the center spot on the table, freeze the cue ball up against the either foot rail or the head rail, and hit that straight-in shot at various speeds -- from normal "optimum stroke" speed, to near as high a speed I can muster accurately, back down to lag speed (i.e. the object ball just barely makes it to the pocket). By far, for those that don't have a good stroke, the lag speed is toughest, because the slow speed exposes stroke anomalies to the light of day.

I think a lot of the reason that long straight-in shots are difficult for some people, are due to two problems:

1. Stroke (discussed above)
2. Aim.

In the "Aim" part, I think some people get "lost" somewhere in the "meat" of the ball. Meaning, that edges of the ball are easy to see and aim at, but when one is trying to find the exact center of something -- especially at a distance -- they lost track of what "center" is. You have "this edge," and "that edge" (of the ball, left and right edges respectively), and a bunch of "stuff" in-between, where centeredness is difficult to find. Part of it may be due to parallax error, part of it dominant eye issues, and part may just be poor head/eye alignment (or shall I say alignment that is just a weeeee bit off, that, at short distances has no effect, but at longer distances comes into play).

Straight-in shots are not "difficult" or "hard" (as the OP says); it's just that they require a little bit more attention than "first off-the-cuff" dismissal of the shot may say in one's mind.

-Sean
 
If you can't sink straight in shots reliably... you can't sink ANY shot reliably.. and the reason is poor stroke...

The reason amature players tend to hate the long straight ... is because it exposes their stroke for what it is..
 
AimWithYourMind said:
My hypothesis is that there is a tendency for players to have a lower percentage of success on long extreme cut shots than on long straight in

When you consider these two effects, it is easy to see why we may think that a long straight in shot is easier than a long extreme cut shot.

You will hear that the long straight in shot is the hardest shot on the table, and you should practice it more. That is referred to as conventional wisdom. And as you can now see, conventional wisdom is often wrong.
Click to expand...

the long straight in shot exposes your flaws in stroke mechanics
the extreme cut shot is a hard shot
 
Choke Up

I choke up about 3 inches further up with my back hand. It works...try it. This assumes you don't have to draw the piss out of the shot. Any stroke errors are reduced when you choke up on straight in shots. It works for me consistantly.

Wedge
 
bbb,
I agree the long shot will expose any flaw, it might be the most important shot in the game, and a great shot to practice, or hit a few before a tournament to gage how you might be stroking that day. I saw Mike Sigel hitting them before a match with Mika. Mike hits the shot pretty good. I was hoping to see him play but Mika ran the 150 on him.
you say the thin shot is hard but i think it's just a small margin for error that makes it seem hard. hit the spot and the shot must go in.
steven
 
Long straight-ins are generally the easiest shots to make, but the most difficult to play good shape off of. Maybe that is what people are talking about when they say long straight-ins are the toughest shots.
 
Slh said:
i don't know why but is easier to me the cut with the cueball frozen on the rail... also even if you give a little unwanted spin you can compensate for that, i find much harder to do it on a straight in shot.
Click to expand...

Long straight in shots: In one pool book someone was telling me about (and he thought this was the best instructional book he had ever read), the author said to put a little english on the shot and throw it into the pocket.

Try it and tell me how it works. For example, with low left english aim a little to the right side of the object ball and THROW it into the pocket. I find that sometimes when my stroke is off and/or my stroke is acting funky, I try this and it works like a charm. A lot of times I like to do this even if I am in stroke. I am very good very long straight in shots unless I am cramped by a rail from the rear.
 
whitewolf said:
Long straight in shots: In one pool book someone was telling me about (and he thought this was the best instructional book he had ever read), the author said to put a little english on the shot and throw it into the pocket.

Try it and tell me how it works. For example, with low left english aim a little to the right side of the object ball and THROW it into the pocket. I find that sometimes when my stroke is off and/or my stroke is acting funky, I try this and it works like a charm. A lot of times I like to do this even if I am in stroke. I am very good very long straight in shots unless I am cramped by a rail from the rear.
Click to expand...
The reason this can help is that if you have a problem with unintended side spin, this will make sure you have a known side spin. That's especially important if you are playing a stop shot. A similar technique: if you are playing a straight-in that could be played as a stop shot or a with a little follow or draw, don't use a stop shot -- draw or follow a little. The follow or draw will significantly reduce the effect of small amounts of side spin.
 
Some players feel that an align-and-pivot aiming method improves their shooting on straight shots as well as angled shots.
 
Different kinds of long shots

There are different kinds of long shots that give different problems. Where the OB is far away, aim seems less important to judge finely and a good stroke seems crucial. On the other hand, when the OB is 6 inches from the CB and the pocket is 8 feet away, then aiming (to strike the OB in exactly the right spot) seems to be the challenge. This goes for both cuts and straight shots.

A 45+ degree cut where the OB travels 7-8 feet is a tough but fun shot for me.
 
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