Do you realie that Aiming is Intuitive???? (Type 1)

[Black-Balled]

I'd actually like to nominate you for the densest person on the AZB. Since you've been arguing with anyone and everyone over aiming systems for the past 14 years, carpet bombing the forum with your spam, you've fully earned your dunce cap.

You can not nominate one who has been nominated before!

Don't hurt 'em, JB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JB Cases]

I'd actually like to nominate you for the densest person on the AZB. Since you've been arguing with anyone and everyone over aiming systems for the past 14 years, carpet bombing the forum with your spam, you've fully earned your dunce cap.

Get you're dates right stalker. I didn't talk about aiming systems until AFTER 2002 and AFTER I met Hal Houle and was personally instructed by him. Only AFTER I learned it from the source and absorbed it into my game did I start talking about the merit of the systems.

Unlike you I add value to the forum. You have not made an on-topic post nor a positive one in your entire time on AZB. You aren't here to help anyone with anything.

You stalk me like you want to be my girlfriend and throw these little malicious barbs when I reject your advances. I don't swing that Allen and if I did you wouldn't be on the short list anyway.

It is super amusing though to think about how you must wake up every day and your first thought is to wonder what I said on AZB. I can think of some pathetic lives but not much more pathetic than to stalk someone through a forum and be consumed by everything they say like you are with me.

On one hand I am flattered that someone is so consumed with me that they look for every opportunity to needle me. On the other I can't help but to feel really sorry for you as I imagine you sitting there in your underwear, never leaving the house, not taking a bath, with thoughts of me running constantly through your head. What a waste of a life.

Let me revise my opinion. You are clearly the densest person on AZ at the moment. Duckie's one redeeming quality over you is that he tries to talk pool playing. You don't even do that on a pool forum.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

You can not nominate one who has been nominated before!

Don't hurt 'em, JB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, I can nominate JB again!

I'd like to refine my earlier posting to fully recognize JB accomplishments here. Anyone who can argue over silly aiming systems for the past 10 years deserves to wear the AZB dunce cap. Consider also that most of JB's 12,900+ postings amount to carpet bombing the forum, trying to intimidate posters who don't agree with him into submission. Because of JB, numerous threads have been train wrecked and closed. With the multiple bannings and warnings that JB has accumulated, he's clearly not the brightest crayon in the box.

By JB's own admission, his participation here on AZB takes a lot of time away from his business. His compulsion has undoubtedly cost his business thousands of dollars over the years.

Yup! JB richly deserves to win the Densest Person in the Forum award. :thumbup:

 

[JB Cases]

Of course, I can nominate JB again!

I'd like to refine my earlier posting to fully recognize JB accomplishments here. Anyone who can argue over silly aiming systems for the past 10 years deserves to wear the AZB dunce cap. Consider also that most of JB's 12,900+ postings amount to carpet bombing the forum, trying to intimidate posters who don't agree with him into submission. Because of JB, numerous threads have been train wrecked and closed. With the multiple bannings and warnings that JB has accumulated, he's clearly not the brightest crayon in the box.

By JB's own admission, his participation here on AZB takes a lot of time away from his business. His compulsion has undoubtedly cost his business thousands of dollars over the years.

Yup! JB richly deserves to win the Densest Person in the Forum award. :thumbup:

And yet life is not all about the pursuit of money and I can talk about aiming and still manage to get plenty of cases done.

What have you contributed to the forum "Pool Shark" Allen? Do you even play pool? Funny that every time I post in one of these threads you show up right BEHIND me.

For the past year or so since you got fixated on me I'd estimate about 1000 of my post count has been replying to you. Are you getting the amount of attention from me that you want to?

 

[Apocalypse2017]

If you can't be taught how to aim then let's have a little bet.

We go out on the street and find two people who have never played pool or any other sport which requires aiming.

You get your person for a week and I get mine. You can teach them to stroke and that's it. I get to teach mine how to stroke and how to aim using whatever methods I think will work.

After one week we let them play some pool for say $1000 a set.

Bet?

I'll take this bet!

 

[mantis99]

Most accurate post on aiming i have seen. Ask any good player how they aim and most can't tell you. How could anyone prove they use a certain aiming system anyway?

Except SVB who openly admits to using an aiming system

 

[JB Cases]

I'll take this bet!

Ok. Where are you? We can set this up if possible for us to get together and film it.

 

[mantis99]

When we aim in any sport, or any activity in life, it is system 1 that does the aiming.

If you don't know, system 1 is the intuitive portion of our brain. System 2 is the slower, computing, rational portion of our brain.

When we throw a football, we do not need to calculate how far away the receiver is. We do not need to compute the altitude that we must throw the ball at. This is all compute automatically by system 1. It is our intuition.

Trying to "block out" system 1 activities is extremely difficult. Why do you think people say it is difficult to miss a shot on purpose? System 1 is trying to pocket the ball which is automatic. System 2 is fighting against it when you are trying to miss on purpose.

Golfers do not have an aiming formula. Quarterbacks do not. Bowlers do not. Archers do not. Marksmen do not. Kids on the playground do not. Baseball pitchers do not. Baseball hitters do not. Basketball players do not.

Skill in accuracy can be gained from repeated trials, where feedback is received as to your success or failure. If feedback was hidden (if you were prevented from seeing if you pocketed the ball) you would not see improvement.

Your skill cannot be improved by instituting an aiming system. The only way to imrove is to train system 1 through repeated trials. System 1 learns slowly. System 2 learns quickly. System 2 can learn a formula instantly and begin using it in computations. System 1 learns slowly. It requires constant feedback and many trials in order to see a change.

You cannot institute an aiming system for a pitcher and make him all of a sudden throw strikes. But you can subject the pitcher to thousands of trials where he received instant feedback (ball or strike) and he will see improved accuracy.

There is more but the discussion will last weeks.

What is important is the mechanics. The mechanics of a pool stroke are not operated by System 1. It is not natural for you to execute a pool stroke. That is where instruction is beneficial.

The only important concept is to deliver the cue in a straight line at the point you intended to hit.

I repeat, I repeat, you cannot be taught how to aim. You can only improve your aim through repeated trials.

Your mechanics are important. Yes, the position of your head is important.

But you cannot be taught how to aim.

I am deeply concerned over all the threads with so much misinformation. It makes me very sick.

It takes a basic knowledge of psychology to understand system 1 and 2 decision making. I'm just done with it.

(I apologize for the missing letters, my keyboard is not in good condition)

Football, golf, baseball, and basketball are invalid examples to make an argument against aiming methods. In those sports you are looking at the point of aim, thus you obviously know where you need to put the ball. In pool, an aiming method helps the shooter to figure out where on the OB the CB needs to hit to send the OB to a desired location. The shooter does not necessarily know where that is like you do when looking at a catcher mit or the flag on a green, especially when you are shooting shots where the pocket is not visible in the sight line. In pool, where you are shooting creates a reaction on another object, in the other sports where you are looking is the end result already.

Neil said it well. Sometimes we just don't know what we don't know. If aiming in pool is so intuitive, why do so many struggle to do it well, and why do they seek out methods to improve their aiming, while you never hear of that type of thing beyond improving your fundamentals and alignment in the other sports. Its not a matter of intuition, they are entirely different cause and effect activities.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

Ok. Where are you? We can set this up if possible for us to get together and film it.

What do you think 1pocket 7 ahead for 1k. Post min 3 sets?

Lets see, lie detector test to find 2 subjects that have never played pool.

I'll grab an idiot savant with excellent hand eye coordination and show em the ropes.

Who are you going to pick?

 

[Apocalypse2017]

Who are you going to pick?

Wait, I have a better idea.

Me and SVB with are shaft aiming system

You and Stevie Moore with your aiming system.

Maybe JCIN will film it.

Up the bet to say 50k, you pick the game :smile:

 

[AimingGuru]

Football, golf, baseball, and basketball are invalid examples to make an argument against aiming methods. In those sports you are looking at the point of aim, thus you obviously know where you need to put the ball. In pool, an aiming method helps the shooter to figure out where on the OB the CB needs to hit to send the OB to a desired location. The shooter does not necessarily know where that is like you do when looking at a catcher mit or the flag on a green, especially when you are shooting shots where the pocket is not visible in the sight line. In pool, where you are shooting creates a reaction on another object, in the other sports where you are looking is the end result already.

Neil said it well. Sometimes we just don't know what we don't know. If aiming in pool is so intuitive, why do so many struggle to do it well, and why do they seek out methods to improve their aiming, while you never hear of that type of thing beyond improving your fundamentals and alignment in the other sports. Its not a matter of intuition, they are entirely different cause and effect activities.

Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY PUT IN THE AMOUNT OF DEDICATED TIME IT TAKES IN ORDER TO RETRAIN SYSTEM 1.

INSTEAD THEY LOOK FOR THE CHEAP FIX.

I'm sick of hearing about this. Do you understand.

IN THE PRO GAME, VERY FEW SHOTS ARE MISSED, EVEN ON TIGHT POCKETS.

The pros have put in the REPEATED PRACTICE necessary to retrain their system 1.

THE REASON AMATEUR PLAYERS MISS IS THAT THEY HAVEN'T PRACTICED ENOUGH.

GIVE THEM A GOD DAMN AIMING SYSTEM AND IT WILL NOT HELP THEM IMPROVE!!!!!!!

NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!

Yea, Stevie Moore now uses Pro One.......... THEY GUY DIDN'T MISS BEFORE HE STARTED USING THAT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

Repeated trials. Do you hear me? Repeated trials. Repeated trials. Repeated trials.

I DON'T KNOW OF ONE PLAYER WHO HAS MADE REMARKABLE LEAPS IN THEIR GAME DUE TO THE ADDITION OF AN AIMING SYSTEM. NOT ONE. NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing to accomplish with aiming systems. The whole premise is wrong!!!!

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS IT HELPS DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will not be able to use an aiming system to your advantage!!!!!! Your brain is SUBCONSCIOUSLY MAKING SMALL ADJUSTMENTS AND YOU CANNOT ALTER OR SUPRESS THEM.

YOU CANNOT SUPRESS THEM!!!!!!!!!

IF I TELL YOU TO ADJUST 1 MILLIMETER YOU CANNOT CONSCIOUSLY DO IT. YOU CANNOT!!!! YOU CANNOT DO IT!!!!! YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN ONLY RETRAIN THE INTUITIVE PART OF YOUR BRAIN TO AIM MORE ACCURATELY!!!!!!!

And this is done with a large number of repeated trials, with sufficient feedback after each trial.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO IMPROVE AIMING!!!! NONE!!!! NONE!!!!! NONE!!!! DO YOU HEAR???????

There is nothing!!!!!!! nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing!!!

DO YOU WANT TO REALIZE IT NOW?????????????????????

 

[Banks]

Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY PUT IN THE AMOUNT OF DEDICATED TIME IT TAKES IN ORDER TO RETRAIN SYSTEM 1.

INSTEAD THEY LOOK FOR THE CHEAP FIX.

I'm sick of hearing about this. Do you understand.

IN THE PRO GAME, VERY FEW SHOTS ARE MISSED, EVEN ON TIGHT POCKETS.

The pros have put in the REPEATED PRACTICE necessary to retrain their system 1.

THE REASON AMATEUR PLAYERS MISS IS THAT THEY HAVEN'T PRACTICED ENOUGH.

GIVE THEM A GOD DAMN AIMING SYSTEM AND IT WILL NOT HELP THEM IMPROVE!!!!!!!

NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!

Yea, Stevie Moore now uses Pro One.......... THEY GUY DIDN'T MISS BEFORE HE STARTED USING THAT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

Repeated trials. Do you hear me? Repeated trials. Repeated trials. Repeated trials.

I DON'T KNOW OF ONE PLAYER WHO HAS MADE REMARKABLE LEAPS IN THEIR GAME DUE TO THE ADDITION OF AN AIMING SYSTEM. NOT ONE. NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing to accomplish with aiming systems. The whole premise is wrong!!!!

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS IT HELPS DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will not be able to use an aiming system to your advantage!!!!!! Your brain is SUBCONSCIOUSLY MAKING SMALL ADJUSTMENTS AND YOU CANNOT ALTER OR SUPRESS THEM.

YOU CANNOT SUPRESS THEM!!!!!!!!!

IF I TELL YOU TO ADJUST 1 MILLIMETER YOU CANNOT CONSCIOUSLY DO IT. YOU CANNOT!!!! YOU CANNOT DO IT!!!!! YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN ONLY RETRAIN THE INTUITIVE PART OF YOUR BRAIN TO AIM MORE ACCURATELY!!!!!!!

And this is done with a large number of repeated trials, with sufficient feedback after each trial.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO IMPROVE AIMING!!!! NONE!!!! NONE!!!!! NONE!!!! DO YOU HEAR???????

There is nothing!!!!!!! nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing!!!

DO YOU WANT TO REALIZE IT NOW?????????????????????

Great.. now all I want to do is run around the office yelling, "There's no way to improve Accounting! There is nothing! NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING!!!" :thumbup: (And then slink off the to bathroom and mumble to myself.)

 

[sfleinen]

Great.. now all I want to do is run around the office yelling, "There's no way to improve Accounting! There is nothing! NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING!!!" :thumbup: (And then slink off the to bathroom and mumble to myself.)

Actually Banks, try singing that post to the tune of "A Slinky!" (see my post below). Remarkable how that post seems to fit that song about a toy product...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3542026#post3542026

 

[AimingGuru]

How about some green rep, someone gave me a red by accident.

 

[Banks]

How about some green rep, someone gave me a red by accident.

You got a greenie for that one.. oh, good stuff. (I had to try not to crack up at my desk.)

Some people just learn in different ways.. that's what it comes down to. Some can cook up like a chef with no training, while others need to measure everything, follow a cookbook, etc.. it's just the way we're built(which, to say, is differently).

 

[8pack]

Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY PUT IN THE AMOUNT OF DEDICATED TIME IT TAKES IN ORDER TO RETRAIN SYSTEM 1.

INSTEAD THEY LOOK FOR THE CHEAP FIX.

I'm sick of hearing about this. Do you understand.

IN THE PRO GAME, VERY FEW SHOTS ARE MISSED, EVEN ON TIGHT POCKETS.

The pros have put in the REPEATED PRACTICE necessary to retrain their system 1.

THE REASON AMATEUR PLAYERS MISS IS THAT THEY HAVEN'T PRACTICED ENOUGH.

GIVE THEM A GOD DAMN AIMING SYSTEM AND IT WILL NOT HELP THEM IMPROVE!!!!!!!

NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!! NO IMPROVEMENT!!!!

Yea, Stevie Moore now uses Pro One.......... THEY GUY DIDN'T MISS BEFORE HE STARTED USING THAT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

Repeated trials. Do you hear me? Repeated trials. Repeated trials. Repeated trials.

I DON'T KNOW OF ONE PLAYER WHO HAS MADE REMARKABLE LEAPS IN THEIR GAME DUE TO THE ADDITION OF AN AIMING SYSTEM. NOT ONE. NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing to accomplish with aiming systems. The whole premise is wrong!!!!

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS IT HELPS DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will not be able to use an aiming system to your advantage!!!!!! Your brain is SUBCONSCIOUSLY MAKING SMALL ADJUSTMENTS AND YOU CANNOT ALTER OR SUPRESS THEM.

YOU CANNOT SUPRESS THEM!!!!!!!!!

IF I TELL YOU TO ADJUST 1 MILLIMETER YOU CANNOT CONSCIOUSLY DO IT. YOU CANNOT!!!! YOU CANNOT DO IT!!!!! YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN ONLY RETRAIN THE INTUITIVE PART OF YOUR BRAIN TO AIM MORE ACCURATELY!!!!!!!

And this is done with a large number of repeated trials, with sufficient feedback after each trial.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO IMPROVE AIMING!!!! NONE!!!! NONE!!!!! NONE!!!! DO YOU HEAR???????

There is nothing!!!!!!! nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing!!!

DO YOU WANT TO REALIZE IT NOW?????????????????????

Are you saying aiming sytems are like the roswell incident.(Arena 61)
A big conspiracy.

 

[AimingGuru]

You got a greenie for that one.. oh, good stuff. (I had to try not to crack up at my desk.)

Some people just learn in different ways.. that's what it comes down to. Some can cook up like a chef with no training, while others need to measure everything, follow a cookbook, etc.. it's just the way we're built(which, to say, is differently).

Thank you. I work tirelessly to bring my ideas to the pool world. I don't believe I've ever attacked anyone in my time here.

I see other people getting into personal attacks and rude behavior, I don't believe I've ever been confrontational with anyone!!!

 

[Cdryden]

When we aim in any sport, or any activity in life, it is system 1 that does the aiming.

If you don't know, system 1 is the intuitive portion of our brain. System 2 is the slower, computing, rational portion of our brain.

When we throw a football, we do not need to calculate how far away the receiver is. We do not need to compute the altitude that we must throw the ball at. This is all compute automatically by system 1. It is our intuition.

Trying to "block out" system 1 activities is extremely difficult. Why do you think people say it is difficult to miss a shot on purpose? System 1 is trying to pocket the ball which is automatic. System 2 is fighting against it when you are trying to miss on purpose.

Golfers do not have an aiming formula. Quarterbacks do not. Bowlers do not. Archers do not. Marksmen do not. Kids on the playground do not. Baseball pitchers do not. Baseball hitters do not. Basketball players do not.

Skill in accuracy can be gained from repeated trials, where feedback is received as to your success or failure. If feedback was hidden (if you were prevented from seeing if you pocketed the ball) you would not see improvement.

Your skill cannot be improved by instituting an aiming system. The only way to imrove is to train system 1 through repeated trials. System 1 learns slowly. System 2 learns quickly. System 2 can learn a formula instantly and begin using it in computations. System 1 learns slowly. It requires constant feedback and many trials in order to see a change.

You cannot institute an aiming system for a pitcher and make him all of a sudden throw strikes. But you can subject the pitcher to thousands of trials where he received instant feedback (ball or strike) and he will see improved accuracy.

There is more but the discussion will last weeks.

What is important is the mechanics. The mechanics of a pool stroke are not operated by System 1. It is not natural for you to execute a pool stroke. That is where instruction is beneficial.

The only important concept is to deliver the cue in a straight line at the point you intended to hit.

I repeat, I repeat, you cannot be taught how to aim. You can only improve your aim through repeated trials.

Your mechanics are important. Yes, the position of your head is important.

But you cannot be taught how to aim.

I am deeply concerned over all the threads with so much misinformation. It makes me very sick.

It takes a basic knowledge of psychology to understand system 1 and 2 decision making. I'm just done with it.

(I apologize for the missing letters, my keyboard is not in good condition)

I don't really agree with this. You can be taught. You do it once, and are unsuccessful, make an adjustment and do it again. You are learning to aim. You are teaching yourself how to correct yourself and compensate through trial and error. This can also be taught to you by someone else.

Aiming is intuitive to an extent. Using a method to help you aim is a way of honing that skill.

But hey, if what your doing works for you great. I don't see why you wont consider that someone else may have a different way that is as good or possibly better.

Having a closed mind is a sure fire way to remain in the dark. Personally I don't have a standard aiming method, but I have tried several as I hear of them and I usually learn something positive from them all. And bit by bit I think they get incorporated into my game.

 

[JB Cases]

What do you think 1pocket 7 ahead for 1k. Post min 3 sets?

Lets see, lie detector test to find 2 subjects that have never played pool.

I'll grab an idiot savant with excellent hand eye coordination and show em the ropes.

Who are you going to pick?

No I think 8 ball - races to five for a thousand.

I will pick a person with the same physical abilities that you have. You don't want to cheat do you?

 

[8pack]

Thank you. I work tirelessly to bring my ideas to the pool world. I don't believe I've ever attacked anyone in my time here.

I see other people getting into personal attacks and rude behavior, I don't believe I've ever been confrontational with anyone!!!

Then what is your system of aiming ?Guess until you guess good.
There is a little truth to what you say.And thats about it.