Hoping you guys can help me ID this stick for a friend. He's had it for 20 years and thinks it's something special. He gave it to a hack a while back to try and refinish so the points got messed up. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
Need help to ID this cue please
- Thread starter islandracer
- Start date
Joss is my bet. Not a JW.
Thanks much guys, will try and get the pics. I'm back in Jamaica and this stick is in Miami with the owner, but will give him the instructions for taking pics of the weight bolt etc.
If it's not a Joss or JW, who else is/was doing the inlaid points with sharp mitered veneers inside? From a construction stand point, the list of folks doing those points are two that come to mind, which are Joss & JW. Of those two, one uses the wood surrounded shaft inserts & that's JW. The only thing about the cue that doesn't seem JW to me is the lack of insignia stamp on the cap. Everything else looks right on.
My Guess
Old Jensen.
Nick
Old Jensen.
Nick
Numerous. :smile:
As in one or two, or a lot? I know of a few, which none of built cues that look like this except for JW. This isn't a Gina, nor a Tad. Everybody else either inlaid points inside of points to give the veneer effect, or else they used v-groove splicing. Stroud & later on Janes are the only ones I know of who inlaid an outer round tipped point, with sharp mitered veneers inlaid inside of it.
well......
The prongs in this cue look pretty much identical to a cue we once had, and it was a 80-82 era Joss (east) but with a plain butt sleeve. Butt treatment screams Joss too, imo, so that would be my vote.
The prongs in this cue look pretty much identical to a cue we once had, and it was a 80-82 era Joss (east) but with a plain butt sleeve. Butt treatment screams Joss too, imo, so that would be my vote.
Oh, I see what you are getting at. The CNC points with inlaid veneers inside them like JOSS....
This is where we have our wires crossed.
He said the cue was refinished by a "hack" and that he screwed up the points. When I saw the ends of the points blunted I assumed that was what he meant and that the points were actually originally sharp.
So you can see that we were looking at it differently. I can see that if we assume those are rounded CNC points that one would think it could be JOSS or JW as they went to CNC fairly early compared to others.
But I think those points were sharp. We would need to hear from the OP and/or see better pics of the ends of the points to determine this mater.
I agree with you, if those are CNC rounded points it narrows down the possibilities very fast. But at the moment I am operating on the assumption that they are not CNC rounded and the appearance that they are is a byproduct of a poor refinish and poor pictures combined.
You may be right, I don't deny it. :smile:
But for the moment, I still think it's not JOSS.
Let me start by saying I really enjoy these threads. It is a challenge to get the correct identity of unmarked cues.
I posted earlier that I think this cue is an early 80's Joss cue.
Chopdoc and I have gone back and forth with a few PM's discussing the cue. I did mention that i have 3 Joss cues from the early 80's that have very similar point construction and that I would post pictures.
First picture is of the cues joints and pins. There is a gold letter joss cue included in this shot to show a differnt pin being used during a different time period.
Second picture is of the points. Clearly a rounded outer veneer with sharp inner veneers.
Third picture just shows the different point construction technique between eraly 80's and late 80's construction.
I do believe the cue in question was refinished very poorly and if it had markings on it there were lost during the process. I also do not think the weight bolt is a true indicator of the maker unless it is marked. People change weight bolts and I have seen several different styles used on Joss cues.
I hope this information helps and I am NOT calling BS on anybody in this thread. I have a lot to learn when it comes to cue identification.
Respectfully posted,
Scott
I posted earlier that I think this cue is an early 80's Joss cue.
Chopdoc and I have gone back and forth with a few PM's discussing the cue. I did mention that i have 3 Joss cues from the early 80's that have very similar point construction and that I would post pictures.
First picture is of the cues joints and pins. There is a gold letter joss cue included in this shot to show a differnt pin being used during a different time period.
Second picture is of the points. Clearly a rounded outer veneer with sharp inner veneers.
Third picture just shows the different point construction technique between eraly 80's and late 80's construction.
I do believe the cue in question was refinished very poorly and if it had markings on it there were lost during the process. I also do not think the weight bolt is a true indicator of the maker unless it is marked. People change weight bolts and I have seen several different styles used on Joss cues.
I hope this information helps and I am NOT calling BS on anybody in this thread. I have a lot to learn when it comes to cue identification.
Respectfully posted,
Scott
Attachments
Thanks for the pics for comparison.
I keep going back to the pics in the original post.
I am sold on the idea the pin could be JOSS. I didn't like it at first but I will accept that now.
I keep getting fixated on those points. I wish I could see the tips of all four. It seems to me they were messed up a little in the refinish and I am not sold on what they looked like originally. The black should round the point but instead it does not even meet at the tip of the point as if it were two separate mitered veneers with a glue line instead of one piece inlayed into a CNC pocket. But it does look like we can see the hint of a rounded CNC pocket under the finish. I'm just not certain.
It could be a JOSS...but I am still not sure. So I'm still saying not.
If it is a JOSS I think you have the time period nailed.
I thought people were proposing it was a very early JOSS, which I really was adverse to accepting...but it appears nobody was really suggesting that anyway.
I am very curious how this one will play out.
It's definitely a cool cue and deserves a solid ID so we shouldn't give up on this one.
Again, thanks for the additional pics. :thumbup:
.
I keep going back to the pics in the original post.
I am sold on the idea the pin could be JOSS. I didn't like it at first but I will accept that now.
I keep getting fixated on those points. I wish I could see the tips of all four. It seems to me they were messed up a little in the refinish and I am not sold on what they looked like originally. The black should round the point but instead it does not even meet at the tip of the point as if it were two separate mitered veneers with a glue line instead of one piece inlayed into a CNC pocket. But it does look like we can see the hint of a rounded CNC pocket under the finish. I'm just not certain.
It could be a JOSS...but I am still not sure. So I'm still saying not.
If it is a JOSS I think you have the time period nailed.
I thought people were proposing it was a very early JOSS, which I really was adverse to accepting...but it appears nobody was really suggesting that anyway.
I am very curious how this one will play out.
It's definitely a cool cue and deserves a solid ID so we shouldn't give up on this one.
Again, thanks for the additional pics. :thumbup:
.
Guys - thanks much. Really cool hearing you guys discuss this. I got this pic of the weight and am waiting on the pic of pilot in the shafts. I asked the owner and he said the points were sharp (not rounded) until the hack tried to refinish. Hope this helps...let me know what else you need.
Butt sleeve is screaming Joss. I will be very shocked to find out different. Have your friend contact Danny. He will tell you.
I will be the one to say that I don't believe the points were sharp to begin with.
If you look at the attached picture you can see what appears to be a void where the point was damaged during the refinish. The void is not sharp as I would have expected if the points were sharp to begin with.
I will also say I haven't seen any sharp pointed Joss (east or whatever you want to call them) cues with plain joint collars. (no ringwork)
I will qualify this with: I can't say I've seen them all..........Just going with the information I have.
Some early Josswests did come with plain black collars. (From the first? flyer that Bill Stroud put out.) In this case the point bases near the wrap were much closer together when I compared this cue to the photo.
Good luck to all on this one.
Scott
If you look at the attached picture you can see what appears to be a void where the point was damaged during the refinish. The void is not sharp as I would have expected if the points were sharp to begin with.
I will also say I haven't seen any sharp pointed Joss (east or whatever you want to call them) cues with plain joint collars. (no ringwork)
I will qualify this with: I can't say I've seen them all..........Just going with the information I have.
Some early Josswests did come with plain black collars. (From the first? flyer that Bill Stroud put out.) In this case the point bases near the wrap were much closer together when I compared this cue to the photo.
Good luck to all on this one.
Scott
