Graphite Cues

Pangit

Pangit

Banned
All the fancy polymers, You would think that some brilliant scientist would have come up with some space age synthetic cue that can trump simple wood cues, maple or ash? Yet, the old fashioned stuff still reigns supreme.

CUTEC has tried.

Sometimes you can't improve on nature. Just like leather tips. Not many glue on synthetic tips on the market.
 
One of the big problems is that wood has a special property: it is both stiff and has a large amount of damping. Carbon Fiber (and expoy) do not have the damping property.

If you hit a wooden surface it will go thud, the same hit on a metal of CF pannel will ring.

This damping property is important in changing the compression at the tip into the feel at the holding hand several micro second later.
 
it seems asides from breaking jumping where you need optimal speed, most of pool is about control, finese and touch. think wood and leather were developed to be the best and still suit the best for this purpose.
 
Pangit said:
All the fancy polymers, You would think that some brilliant scientist would have come up with some space age synthetic cue that can trump simple wood cues, maple or ash? Yet, the old fashioned stuff still reigns supreme.

CUTEC has tried.

Sometimes you can't improve on nature. Just like leather tips. Not many glue on synthetic tips on the market.
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I am fairly certain that if there were real money in it, a company like Easton for example, could make a synthetic cue that would perform considerably better than the wood cues with leather tips we use.

There would likely be small return on the millions of dollars needed to develop the technology. Their sales are nearly 1 billion a year - pool isn't going to be large enough to get much attention from a company like this.

Check out all the stuff they make: http://www.eastonbellsports.com/
 
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TATE said:
There would likely be small return on the millions of dollars needed to develop the technology.
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small return, 200 cues at 5,000 (which on this site looks like a reasonable price for a high aend cue here) = 1,000,000 dollars

if people are spending 5K on pretty $hitty performing cues, (from what many folks on here say) why wouldn't they spend 5K, to improve there game with something that actually will improve there game. im sure you would sell a 1,000 cues at 5K in no time if it truly was better. that's 5,000,000 dollars.

problem is wood and leather is all you need to run 526 balls. so there really is no need to develop something better because no one wants to run 1,000 balls. wood and leather is all you need to run a rack and repeat.
 
I have a couple Cuetecs, and I got what I wanted. The fiberglass layer means no dings, and I think it probably also reduces shaft warping.

Unlike golf, where new technology balls and clubs improve both distance and accuracy, or tennis, where new rackets improve power and reduce vibration, I'm not sure there is a substantial amount of room for better cues. LD/low squirt is nice, and you could do that with a synthetic, probably better than today's wood versions. Warping has not be eliminated by laminated shafts like I thought it would be, so that could be improved.

Probably the biggest area for substantial "improvement" would be in tips, ones that either hold on to the CB longer, or have a higher coefficient of friction with phenolic cue balls, or are harder when struck hard but give good feel on softer shots. The goals would be to allow for more cue ball spin while reducing the risk of miscues, and to allow for more efficient transfer of momentum between the cue and the cue ball, and to eliminate the need for tip chalk from the game.
 
Pangit said:
All the fancy polymers, You would think that some brilliant scientist would have come up with some space age synthetic cue that can trump simple wood cues, maple or ash? Yet, the old fashioned stuff still reigns supreme.

CUTEC has tried.

Sometimes you can't improve on nature. Just like leather tips. Not many glue on synthetic tips on the market.
Click to expand...



I think that Graphite will never be that popular because it always becomes sticky to the touch over time no matter what coating they have used upon it. I was thinking about this subject a while back and I think the solution may as simple as putting Teflon coating on the Graphite like they use in cookware. If I had the money I would try this out, while I think it would certainly take care of the sticky problem I doubt it would change the crappy hit of Graphite.
 
I hope it stays that way. I am a big believer in wooden shafts. I have yet to find a synthetic that I consider better.

I guess I'm a bit old fashioned when it come to cues. It's kind of the major league baseball bats. I'm glad they have stuck with the wooden bats, I can't stand the "ding" of the aluminum ones.
 
My McDermott Belicini plays well but I use a maple shaft. I figure it is a good example of a composite.

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Yeah it took me 9 attempts to get it right but I developed a great composite cue when i was working for a composites company. Works perfectly on english pool and snooker. Never tried it on US pool but if the tip size was changed I can't see why it wouldn't work.
 
Goose1972 said:
small return, 200 cues at 5,000 (which on this site looks like a reasonable price for a high aend cue here) = 1,000,000 dollars

if people are spending 5K on pretty $hitty performing cues, (from what many folks on here say) why wouldn't they spend 5K, to improve there game with something that actually will improve there game. im sure you would sell a 1,000 cues at 5K in no time if it truly was better. that's 5,000,000 dollars.

problem is wood and leather is all you need to run 526 balls. so there really is no need to develop something better because no one wants to run 1,000 balls. wood and leather is all you need to run a rack and repeat.
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Huh? What world do you live in?
 
Drew said:
Huh? What world do you live in?
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i personally know a guy who has a 5K cue (southwest, he's trying to sell it, prefers shooting with a predator z2), from the looks of it on az billiards, many folks have them as well. I myself don't 730 is my limit.

i've never met or heard of anyone who has spent close to this on a baseball bat, a hockey stick, or a golf club, (collectors aside, who keep things in mint and cannot use)

so, i live in this world.

you make a better composite cue (if it exists, which i doubt). put some points on it. you will sell 1,000 at 5,000 dollars. people will be jumping off the wait lists from the other guys to get yours. only problem is as I stated earlier it does not exist and is not needed as wood and leather are more then enough to run rack after rack, and any cue over 200 is sufficient to feel great and run rack after rack if you've developed the skills.
 
Goose1972 said:
i personally know a guy who has a 5K cue (southwest, he's trying to sell it, prefers shooting with a predator z2), from the looks of it on az billiards, many folks have them as well. I myself don't 730 is my limit.

i've never met or heard of anyone who has spent close to this on a baseball bat, a hockey stick, or a golf club, (collectors aside, who keep things in mint and cannot use)

so, i live in this world.

you make a better composite cue (if it exists, which i doubt). put some points on it. you will sell 1,000 at 5,000 dollars. people will be jumping off the wait lists from the other guys to get yours. only problem is as I stated earlier it does not exist and is not needed as wood and leather are more then enough to run rack after rack, and any cue over 200 is sufficient to feel great and run rack after rack if you've developed the skills.
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But that's one guy. I personally don't know a single person who regularly plays with a $5,000 cue. The cues at this price range are collectible items--the price tag indicates a work of fine art, not a piece of equipment. Of the hundreds of cue makers in the market, only a dozen of them can sell a cue this high. The best baseball bats are a few hundred bucks. The best golf clubs might reach $2,000. And these are sports with many more customers. You'd be lucky to sell 5 cues at $5,000. If a company like Easton wants to make a the best cue ever, they could dump as much as $500k in r&d. Hopefully they get 2,000 buyers at $500 each to net $500k. Pool just isn't a big enough market.

No worries, we don't need Easton. There are other companies putting a lot of research into cues: Mezz, OB, Cuetec, Predator, McDermott, Lucasi, etc
 
Drew said:
But that's one guy. I personally don't know a single person who regularly plays with a $5,000 cue. The cues at this price range are collectible items--the price tag indicates a work of fine art, not a piece of equipment. Of the hundreds of cue makers in the market, only a dozen of them can sell a cue this high. The best baseball bats are a few hundred bucks. The best golf clubs might reach $2,000. And these are sports with many more customers. You'd be lucky to sell 5 cues at $5,000. If a company like Easton wants to make a the best cue ever, they could dump as much as $500k in r&d. Hopefully they get 2,000 buyers at $500 each to net $500k. Pool just isn't a big enough market.

No worries, we don't need Easton. There are other companies putting a lot of research into cues: Mezz, OB, Cuetec, Predator, McDermott, Lucasi, etc
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i've spent more money on 1 cue that i actively use then I have on a whole set of golf clubs. add my case and break club to the total and i'd have two sets of golf clubs. I beleive in my area there been a resurgence in pool since the indoor smoking ban. This recession has sent people into pool halls looking for something cheap to do, aside from a movie which is 15 bucks.

in regards to collectors and works of art. all these people on these 10 year wait lists for tascarelas and south wests will never use them????? I think a good amount of them will strike a ball in there lifetime, works of art are not used, they are wrpped up and never touched. i think sport memorabilia prices are high because it's something you will never use, cal ripkens bat, a balabushka cue should see use, mosconis cue should be in the smithsonian. 5,000 dollar sticks as works of art is the biggest scam in pool going. i think people would jump off a southwest line, if they were guaranteed the best shooting cue ever developed at the same price without any fancy inlays, and i think people who laugh at the folks on these 10 year wait lists would consider buying a real product that worked.

once again i reiterate, i dont believe that technology can make that much of an impact on a shooting cue, i do not beleive it possible. i believe if someone developed this magic cue, there return on investment would be there, based on what people pay for cues. the fact no one has bothered makes me believe that for this sport wood and leather are the peak in materials needed for success.

instead of 1,000 cues at 5K, how bout 5,000 cues at 1K, due the math still gets to 5 million. How many shafts do you think predator sells a year?? You don't think if easton or anyone else created some magic cue there'd be a market?? there would. it's just that the game is played in a box.. and in that box a 30 year old piece of wood has held up just as good as any other gimmicks developed to date.
 
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