could Xiaoting Pan compete with the Mens pros if...

Celtic said:
Thats because the question was if she could compete against the TOP male pros in 9-ball with a designated breaker PERIOD.

It was not "Do you think XTP could compete with the top male pros if she had a designated breaker and if the races were short enough and if the pockets were not too small and if the male player scratches on a couple of his breaks and is just getting over a case of the flu and..."

It was VERY CLEARLY a question that asked if XTP in fact shoots as well as the TOP make pros in the game and her only weakness relative to them is the break shot.

It was YOU who spun the question into something else.

Who gives a crap if they can win a tournament match? Emile Rivera from Australia who I used to play for cash took out Earl in a WPC match once and it does not come even CLOSE to meaning he is as good as Earl in any way concievable. I beat Tyler Edey for cash once, I beat Adam smith in a mini in Vegas, you know what that means in the grand scheme of things, diddly squat. And that is what you are giving us Jay.

We KNOW the women have a chance to snap off a short single tournament match, so do about 5000 male players who almost knows who the heck they even are. Who really gives a crap about that? Seriously?
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Well EXCUSSSSSE ME! I read the OP questions and only wanted to point out that imo some of the top women don't need a designated breaker (or anything else) to win MATCHES (plural) from top men players. I'm sorry if I didn't address his question in a way that pleased you. These kind of things seem to happen quite often on threads but maybe you hadn't noticed.

I didn't really want to get into the question of money games because that becomes purely speculation, since we all know that very few women are into gambling. But there are quite a few women who are willing and able to play against men in tournaments, so that does have some relevance here and it can be tested. Talking about gambling with women who we know don't gamble is just so much chest pounding imo. Feel free if it makes you feel good.

Tournaments are not easy to play in and the matches aren't that short in major events. To me it's a real test of a player's skills to see how deep they can go. There is no question in my mind that the better players are the ones who are there at the end. I continue to believe that given the opportunity, there are already several women players who could do just that. That's my response to the OP's question whether you like it or not.

As for me I would much rather see eight or ten of the best women players in the world competing head to head against the men in tournament play. That would be interesting, relevant and damn exciting. And it might just be the shot in the arm that professional pool needs. Those of you who only want to see a money match between a girl and guy I refer you to Jeanette Lee. She is always armed and ready for action. I'm not so sure that Chris would like to play her an all-around match consisting of 9-Ball, One Pocket, 14.1 and Banks. He might be able to make that game and you and all the other macho guys can make a bet on him. I think my money would be on the girl!

Have a great day and remember to keep it nice. :smile:
 
jay helfert said:
But there are quite a few women who are willing and able to play against men in tournaments
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Like what? The US Open 9-ball which finally opened up to finally allow the women to play? Where are all those top female pros actually willing to step into a touranment like that which actually has top teir men in it? Some played on the Joss Tour or some other local tour? Great, so did Joe the Plumber and I heard he once beat a top ranked pro!

Not only do the women not have the skill, they do everything in their power to avoid any situation where the gap in skill can be realized. Yes Yu Ram Cha once beat SVB, I was actually there when it happend, but guess what, lighting also kills some people each year. It totally sucks to actually "get" struck by lightning, but despite the ridiculously low odds it actually does happen to some people. SVB got hit by the proverbial lightning bolt, that is why we remember that result TO THIS DAY, it is a rarity in the extreme.

The whole "oh well they don't gamble" thing is also crap, some actually do. Jeanette Lee gambles quite alot and I am sure given the right opponent alot of the women are happy to take off some b-ranked player for some cash. What they do NOT do is actually step out and challenge the top men to see where they REALLY stand. And the guys like you who say they can win are sure not stepping up to back them.

Put them in the box in the new TAR format, best 2 of 3 races to 25 over a 3 day period on the TAR diamond. Si Meng vs Bartrum, you want action on that match Jay? Cause I do.
 
PoolBum said:
That's just unacceptable. No one should have to die because of the lighting in a pool tournament.
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I agree, luckily it is tremendously rare. You have a better chance to win the lottery then get struck by lightning while playing in a pool tournament.
 
Celtic said:
Yeah, I missed the n once when I wrote it. Lighting vs lightning, very funny.
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It only got funny when someone joked about it, and you replied, missing the joke.

Lighten up, we all end up in a similar spot at one time or another. :D
 
CharlesUFarley said:
Chris Bartram....you don't know me, but If you ever get action against a female player in a race to 100, with anyone on earth breaking for her, P.M. me with a couple of months notice so I can sell my house.....As long as you're matching what I put up with your own cash....I could scrape together a couple hundred thousand....lol

If Chris prefers to bet on his own....ANYONE has side action for all they want to bet.
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you act like when i play i dont bet my cash?
you must have me mixed up for someoe else.
and get cash together and put any girl in
with what money i have to bet myself and the money i
got with friends that will bet you could bet a lot.
 
jay helfert said:
Chris, You missed my point. There are women out there right now who are fully capable of beating you in a tournament match. That's all that I'm referring too. At no time did I ever say anything about a money match. I never played Robin for money either. She beat me in a tournament along with 62 other guys, some of whom were pretty fair players.

Robin was a damn good tournament player. She might have given you trouble too in that setting. Today there are quite a few women who are better players than Robin was. One of them could well win an open event some day. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened. That is my point!

P.S. The funny thing about this thread is that we all know that several women have beaten top men players in tournaments already. This is not a secret.
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for sure
they can beat any player in tourney match.
i have always said that.
just like i can beat anyone in tourney match.
 
risky biz said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by real bartram
she may have beat you.
but she would never beat a player like me or shuff or oscar for money.



The "money" aspect makes it a gaff proposition. There are lots of very good players who don't play money games. What are the odds that Fu Xiao Fang would reply if you sent her an e-mail offering to back her in a money game. Pretty low, I think. Not the least bit interested most likely. That is no reflection at all on her playing level.

I certainly don't have anything against money games but a lot of players don't think they're worth the effort for good reasons.

Also, there is a really good tournament schedule with major backers in Asia. A lot of Asian players don't even bother coming to tournaments in the US. Also for good reasons.
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thats all fine and good if they wish not to gamble.
but lets stop saying they can play with top guys.
 
real bartram said:
thats all fine and good if they wish not to gamble.
but lets stop saying they can play with top guys.
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Sorry, but I think there are several top women players who can match up against top male players. If I'm wrong and they are overmatched now it's not by much and the gap is going to disappear in a few short years.

I agree with Jay on a male vs. female match or matches being able to generate some real excitement in pool. Maybe someone on this thread can get the gig as a hyped up Bobby Riggs of pool.
 
risky biz said:
Sorry, but I think there are several top women players who can match up against top male players. If I'm wrong and they are overmatched now it's not by much and the gap is going to disappear in a few short years.

I agree with Jay on a male vs. female match or matches being able to generate some real excitement in pool. Maybe someone on this thread can get the gig as a hyped up Bobby Riggs of pool.
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not going to happen! on paper it may seem like it could but in reality it will never happen.The drive and will of players highly skilled like SVB is too strong for a woman to over come to win a us open or another big tourney loaded with Americans,Europeans and Asians and johnny mora lol.
 
champ2107 said:
not going to happen! on paper it may seem like it could but in reality it will never happen.The drive and will of players highly skilled like SVB is too strong for a woman to over come to win a us open or another big tourney loaded with Americans,Europeans and Asians and johnny mora lol.
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I wonder how many buys a crow-eating stream would get?
 
risky biz said:
Sorry, but I think there are several top women players who can match up against top male players. If I'm wrong and they are overmatched now it's not by much and the gap is going to disappear in a few short years.

I agree with Jay on a male vs. female match or matches being able to generate some real excitement in pool. Maybe someone on this thread can get the gig as a hyped up Bobby Riggs of pool.
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OMG...... WOW!!! Really? For serious? Are you kidding me? Huh? C'mon.....

I'll pray nightly from here on out that you hit the lottery. If you do, ima quit my job, get in my truck, pick up Bartram, come follow you around, and pick up some free money.....

See, in these guys vs girls threads there is always a few like yourself that truly believes the women are "close" to the top men, are "closing the gap", and will be on their level "in a few years". I've heard the same since I started playing..... Robin Dodson, Lori Jon, Vivean, Allison, Karen Corr, now the asians. It is so delusional that its non sensical. Top women to the top men, you know what the difference is, realistically? At least the last 4, maybe 5. Matter of fact, I will not only bet a pinky, I'll bet my left nugget if the top female plays Orcullo with the last 4.

If you think I'm nuts, well, go scape every nickel you can beg, borrow, or steal and take Chris up on his offer. All he wants from Orcullo is like the 7 & 9 and maybe you'll see the light after Korn does business with the top female. I mean, really, if you feel so strong put your $ where your mouth is (or at least one of the true believers), and prove us wrong. Wow....
 
The Saw said:
OMG...... WOW!!! Really? For serious? Are you kidding me? Huh? C'mon.....

I'll pray nightly from here on out that you hit the lottery. If you do, ima quit my job, get in my truck, pick up Bartram, come follow you around, and pick up some free money.....

See, in these guys vs girls threads there is always a few like yourself that truly believes the women are "close" to the top men, are "closing the gap", and will be on their level "in a few years". I've heard the same since I started playing..... Robin Dodson, Lori Jon, Vivean, Allison, Karen Corr, now the asians. It is so delusional that its non sensical. Top women to the top men, you know what the difference is, realistically? At least the last 4, maybe 5. Matter of fact, I will not only bet a pinky, I'll bet my left nugget if the top female plays Orcullo with the last 4.

If you think I'm nuts, well, go scape every nickel you can beg, borrow, or steal and take Chris up on his offer. All he wants from Orcullo is like the 7 & 9 and maybe you'll see the light after Korn does business with the top female. I mean, really, if you feel so strong put your $ where your mouth is (or at least one of the true believers), and prove us wrong. Wow....
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Instead of the bragging why don't you get your chosen player and all your money together and fly to China and ask them if they want to play for all your money?
 
risky biz said:
Sorry, but I think there are several top women players who can match up against top male players. If I'm wrong and they are overmatched now it's not by much and the gap is going to disappear in a few short years.
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Hi, I'm earth have we met?

+1 Saw, been hearing the same things for years and years and years about this "gap".
 
risky biz said:
Instead of the bragging why don't you get your chosen player and all your money together and fly to China and ask them if they want to play for all your money?
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Because its more likely that they either wont find a game or will have to give out weight. If you agree to reimburse them for the flight and lodging if they don't find action, they would probably go.
 
Masayoshi said:
Because its more likely that they either wont find a game or will have to give out weight. If you agree to reimburse them for the flight and lodging if they don't find action, they would probably go.
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Even then it doesn't make sense..... Bart threw out the challenge, he doesn't even like travelling across the US to play the top men, much less China.
 
Not trying to take sides here.

A couple months back someone posted a link to a Chinese TV documentary on pool players. It showed Si Meng Chen being coached by Wu. They regularly play races for push ups. I distinctly remember Si Meng saying that of all the times they've played, she was only able to beat Wu once. I bet they played quite often. I know it's not tournaments or gambling, but that says something.
 
real bartram said:
you act like when i play i dont bet my cash?
you must have me mixed up for someoe else.
and get cash together and put any girl in
with what money i have to bet myself and the money i
got with friends that will bet you could bet a lot.
Click to expand...
I guess my post came across the wrong way. I'm saying that no woman has a chance against you in a race to 100 and I want to bet your side.....I have no doubt you bet your own, I was hypothetically just saying I would want half your action for all we can get in the middle.
 
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