Industry Supporting Industry

[macguy]

i think your right to a point, about there not being a "flashy" player that can attract the masses, but i also think its partly due to the fact that the pro players make it look so easy, that its just boring to the normal person not that interested in pool, i mean they see these pro's running out like well water, and staying in perfect line, very little real "fire power" is displayed and in my opinion, its just boring to watch if your not a pool fanatic.

What the game needs is another Keith Mcready... a young kid, fearless, taking on all comers, walking around with his old "the worlds got the 8" shirt, chatting it up, and pumping new blood into the game...

Shane is a great champion, and one of the best rotation players i have seen recently, but the spark, the charisma just isn't there now... and not just him, but when was the last time you saw a champion, on the TV table, playing to the crowd? to the pro's, its a business (and understandably so, its how they make a living) but in order to attract the new people, i think we need a player that can bring them in.

Again, even if such a player was to come along they would still exist in a vacuum as far the the general public were concerned. The problems are far more complex then just a few players to draw some attention. Pool is a subculture sport so to speak, maybe like body building or surfing, not at all main stream. How do you change that? Can you? Pool has historically had a very poor and non loyal fan base. By and large, they won't cross the street or pay a dime to watch champions play. They love to play themselves but are not really fans of the sport as you may find in other sports.

Recently we had a guy named Tony Hawk at a place near us. It was standing room only and you would think they were meeting a movie star the way people acted and this is as obscure a sport as there is. You need fans and pool just has none, not even among regular players. Pool may be much like fishing in that everybody loves to fish, but no one would pay to watch someone else fish. People like to play pool and the game is very popular, but they don't want to watch it. I don't see that ever changing.

 

[duckie]

First, there is a difference in growing the sport of pool, and growing pro pool. They are interrelated to a degree, but without growing the sport first, there can not be a growth in pro pool.

And just where are these kids gonna play pool? The guy in Texas that has a school program is having a hard time to get pool rooms, or maybe more accurate, bars with pool tables to get involved.

In this is the heart of the problem. Where can the kids play and learn the good side of pool?

The town I grew up in did not have pool room, no one I knew when a table. My first experiences with pool was when the city put in some 4x8 GC in one of the rec centers. That's where I got hooked on pool. Way before I ever saw the Hustler. Unlike some that got the bug after seeing this movie, it only confirmed that I was a pool player after seeing it.

I'm also what I call a returnee to the game. This is someone that played in their younger years, stopped and has or is returning to the game. This is another group of people that should not be overlooked in helping with the growth of pool.

One group that would directly benefit from helping grow the sport are room owners yet I always read about needing a pro or some hot shot kid to help the sport grow when the need for a proper place for kids to play and returnees like myself to play.

What I see is room owners not needing to because of leagues. If the leagues are helping to pay the bills, why do more? How come there is not a kids APA league?

I need to make this point. When I say pool room, I do not mean a bar with pool tables and there is a difference. A true pool room caters to players not drinkers. It is a place you would not have a problem taking your kid to at anytime.

There is so much a room owner could to help grow the sport. I go to one of the local rooms on Saturday morning and I am the only one in there. There are 20 tables empty. To me this is waste.

It makes me wonder if a kids league would work on the weekends or even week nights. There could be a weekend clinic for room members or frequent users of the room.

I get embarrassed at times when I mentioned to people I'm a pool player. Why, because most already have a preconceived notion of what a pool player is, but I'm nothing like that and what a pool room is like. So yeah, the current imagine of pool hurts also.

See, I come from a different side of pool. Not the gambling, sharking, drinking, drugs, hustling, sandbagging side. See I have standards and ethics that I play by and that are lacking overall in the pool world. I know what professional behavior is about and this is lacking in the pool world, well the world in general really.

Imagine being required to met a dress code or forfeit at a 10 ball tourney. There was a big stink in the carom forum about a player not playing in the proper pants, jeans, not slacks.

So, two things need to happen first. More places that are real pool rooms and changing the imagine of pool.

Ponder this, why do parents want theirs kids to play baseball, soccer, golf, tennis and so on but not pool?

 

[Mr. Bond]

Some people still blame Yoko, I still blame Brunswick.

J.M. is probably rolling over in his grave.

Brunswick was THE Chicago billiard and bowling icon, THE American billiard and bowling icon, THE worldwide billiard and bowling icon, and the products they made, just like J.M. wanted, were the best you could get your hands on at any price.

The management of Brunswick was always involved in the regulatory process for tournaments and championships, including rule making and dispute rulings. They provided medals, trophies, cues, tables, and endless prize fundage. They sponsored and toured WELL DRESSED pros all over the world, even going so far as to declare the stinky word "pool" as obsolete.

Brunswick is what un-happened to professional pool. The old school management died off, Ralph left a bad taste in their mouth, their monopolistic skeletons were getting restless in the closet....but they still have an empire to feed. What to do?


Screw it. And screw em all.
People love "Brunswick" so they'll buy anything. Lets send it all overseas, abandon dozens of factories all over America, and put people out of work so we can feed the empire.

Screw the pros, let em get a job overseas.

Screw the tournaments, let em hold tournaments overseas somewhere, but not on my dime.

Screw the tables, so what if they suck? Now I can sell you another sooner.

Screw Americans, we can sell tables overseas, where our competitors cant afford to compete...

Who cares if there's a giant hole in the industry where professional billiards used to be, we have an empire to feed!



Brunswick. Pffff.

 

[JAM]

Some people still blame Yoko, I still blame Brunswick.

J.M. is probably rolling over in his grave.

Brunswick was THE Chicago billiard and bowling icon, THE American billiard and bowling icon, THE worldwide billiard and bowling icon, and the products they made, just like J.M. wanted, were the best you could get your hands on at any price.

The management of Brunswick was always involved in the regulatory process for tournaments and championships, including rule making and dispute rulings. They provided medals, trophies, cues, tables, and endless prize fundage. They sponsored and toured WELL DRESSED pros all over the world, even going so far as to declare the stinky word "pool" as obsolete.

Brunswick is what un-happened to professional pool. The old school management died off, Ralph left a bad taste in their mouth, their monopolistic skeletons were getting restless in the closet....but they still have an empire to feed. What to do?


Screw it. And screw em all.
People love "Brunswick" so they'll buy anything. Lets send it all overseas, abandon dozens of factories all over America, and put people out of work so we can feed the empire.

Screw the pros, let em get a job overseas.

Screw the tournaments, let em hold tournaments overseas somewhere, but not on my dime.

Screw the tables, so what if they suck? Now I can sell you another sooner.

Screw Americans, we can sell tables overseas, where our competitors cant afford to compete...

Who cares if there's a giant hole in the industry where professional billiards used to be, we have an empire to feed!



Brunswick. Pffff.

That is interesting about Brunswick, but I do have one question. Who is J.M.?

 

[JAM]

First, there is a difference in growing the sport of pool, and growing pro pool. They are interrelated to a degree, but without growing the sport first, there can not be a growth in pro pool.

And just where are these kids gonna play pool? The guy in Texas that has a school program is having a hard time to get pool rooms, or maybe more accurate, bars with pool tables to get involved.

In this is the heart of the problem. Where can the kids play and learn the good side of pool?

The town I grew up in did not have pool room, no one I knew when a table. My first experiences with pool was when the city put in some 4x8 GC in one of the rec centers. That's where I got hooked on pool. Way before I ever saw the Hustler. Unlike some that got the bug after seeing this movie, it only confirmed that I was a pool player after seeing it.

I'm also what I call a returnee to the game. This is someone that played in their younger years, stopped and has or is returning to the game. This is another group of people that should not be overlooked in helping with the growth of pool.

One group that would directly benefit from helping grow the sport are room owners yet I always read about needing a pro or some hot shot kid to help the sport grow when the need for a proper place for kids to play and returnees like myself to play.

What I see is room owners not needing to because of leagues. If the leagues are helping to pay the bills, why do more? How come there is not a kids APA league?

I need to make this point. When I say pool room, I do not mean a bar with pool tables and there is a difference. A true pool room caters to players not drinkers. It is a place you would not have a problem taking your kid to at anytime.

There is so much a room owner could to help grow the sport. I go to one of the local rooms on Saturday morning and I am the only one in there. There are 20 tables empty. To me this is waste.

It makes me wonder if a kids league would work on the weekends or even week nights. There could be a weekend clinic for room members or frequent users of the room.

I get embarrassed at times when I mentioned to people I'm a pool player. Why, because most already have a preconceived notion of what a pool player is, but I'm nothing like that and what a pool room is like. So yeah, the current imagine of pool hurts also.

See, I come from a different side of pool. Not the gambling, sharking, drinking, drugs, hustling, sandbagging side. See I have standards and ethics that I play by and that are lacking overall in the pool world. I know what professional behavior is about and this is lacking in the pool world, well the world in general really.

Imagine being required to met a dress code or forfeit at a 10 ball tourney. There was a big stink in the carom forum about a player not playing in the proper pants, jeans, not slacks.

So, two things need to happen first. More places that are real pool rooms and changing the imagine of pool.

Ponder this, why do parents want theirs kids to play baseball, soccer, golf, tennis and so on but not pool?

You make some valid points for sure, and I don't have an answer.

Industry supporting industry, though, ain't going to help pool advance in popularity to mainstream America, IMO. Pro pool isn't even on the radar, either.

When you go to pool events, the TD makes more money sometimes than the majority of the competitors.

The photographers and media members are sometimes sponsored to attend pool functions by industry members. Not all of them are, though. Some do travel on their own dime and hope to make a profit on their wares, but industry members sponsor other industry members to go to some pool functions. Very few pro players get sponsored in America.

At events held overseas, there aren't many Americans, and if there are, they are usually industry folk, organization members, or media. They definitely aren't American pool players. The players cannot afford to go, but industry supports other industry allowing industry to attend pool functions. How this benefits pool, at least in America, I'm not sure, unless nobody gives a damn anymore about pool in America. Maybe that's the ticket.

 

[JAM]

Again, even if such a player was to come along they would still exist in a vacuum as far the the general public were concerned. The problems are far more complex then just a few players to draw some attention. Pool is a subculture sport so to speak, maybe like body building or surfing, not at all main stream. How do you change that? Can you? Pool has historically had a very poor and non loyal fan base. By and large, they won't cross the street or pay a dime to watch champions play. They love to play themselves but are not really fans of the sport as you may find in other sports.

Recently we had a guy named Tony Hawk at a place near us. It was standing room only and you would think they were meeting a movie star the way people acted and this is as obscure a sport as there is. You need fans and pool just has none, not even among regular players. Pool may be much like fishing in that everybody loves to fish, but no none would not pay to watch someone else fish. People like to play pool and the game is very popular, but they don't want to watch it. I don't see that ever changing.

Definitely pool is *not* a good viewing sport with robotic emotionless players. Pool needs a personality.

With the social media vehicles that exist today, an enterprising pool player could promote himself, and if it went viral, well, he/she just might pick up a few sponsors and get noticed.

 

[JAM]

you & me both.

Unfortunatly there just are not enough of us.

SLIM

I like being comfy. Walking in the heat up hills and valleys and sweating all day long, standing on my feet, well, I'd rather just stay home. At least at a pool room, I can sit down on the rail and enjoy the game, up front and close.

 

[JAM]

Back in the 1980's I had pool shooting shoes. Both the eight ball and nine ball. I don't know who made them but they were okay to wear.


They were advertised in the pool magazines way back then.

Shoot better pool with pool shooting shoes.

Wish I had bought 10 pair now.:smile:

Man, I remember those shoes. :smile::thumbup:

 

[ShootingArts]

that is the seventy-five cent question

One question that comes to mind is this. Do industry members benefit financially from sponsoring other industry members, or is it more of name-brand recognition that benefits the sponsoring industry member more so? Getting their name out there, IOW.

When I see pool the rare times it's on TV, I see the same names: Brunswick, Diamond, Olhausen, Simonis, and Aramith. Sometimes a pool chalk company will have their name thrown in the mix. This name-brand recognition is what helps an industry member sell their product. People will be more inclined to purchase, say, a Diamond, Brunswick, or Olhausen table. These industry members have name-brand recognition.

In pool, though, is the ROI (return on investment) really that great?

As we know, sponsorship is advertising. When a really big corporation has money to splash around sometimes it is just to raise the profile but most advertising is to make money more directly.

I have advertised on TV, radio, flyers, mass mailings, pretty much every method including sponsoring events and teams. Some of my mass mailings got very good response, I always included a discount for bringing the mailing in so I knew if it worked or not. Five or ten percent is huge with a mass mailing. Lost my rear on TV and radio advertising, same with newspaper. Of all of the conventional means of advertising including sponsorship, by far the most successful thing was yellow page advertising back when there was only one big player in phone books and a couple small players that weren't big enough to be concerned with. I spent about $20,000 a year on yellow pages, say enough to sponsor one pool event. Even had I been in a pool related industry I wouldn't have gotten more than a small fraction of the same result from sponsoring an event.

Another catch is that there has to be a tangible connection between sponsorship and sales. The event happens, there is a local bloom in sales. The event is shown on TV there is a nationwide bloom in sales. It is reshown, there is a smaller bloom. Does pool sponsorship cause a significant blip where any sponsor can be sure that their support of an event resulted in sales? My bet is that it doesn't for any of the big players.

I suspect AZB, word of mouth, sells more Diamond tables than any event they sponsor. The events may indeed raise their profile but that can be very difficult to document. Ask any hundred people on the street to name three pool table brands and at least 90 will probably give you a blank stare or start guessing.

There is enough sponsorship at one weekend of NASCAR racing to support pool for decades. Why? Almost perfect advertising. Tens of thousands of fans present, millions watching on TV. Plus the cars themselves are huge billboards. Your driver winning is great but even your driver crashing may get you millions in "free" advertising.

What happens when you sponsor a pool event? The general public, the new customer you are trying to reach, doesn't even notice. Five or ten percent of the pool players and hardcore fans think what you did was wonderful and rhe rest are bashing you because the water was too high priced at the event, or the carpet was stained, or you should be doing a lot more!

Sponsor a pool player and he represents your business. What male pool player in the US today do you want representing your business? Many have a past that can't stand much light, few act professional at all times, most that understand they should act professional don't have any presence to be noticed.

To attract a sponsorship a competitor needs to be colorful but not offensive, attractive, young, and competitive. They also have to dress and behave professionally, 24/7. Few sponsors, a lot of competitors so a competitor needs to be perfection plus to get and keep a sponsor.

I drifted into the subject matter of another thread but it is all one thing really. Pro pool needs excitement and color but not controversy. A tall order.

Hu

 

[JAM]

i think your right to a point, about there not being a "flashy" player that can attract the masses, but i also think its partly due to the fact that the pro players make it look so easy, that its just boring to the normal person not that interested in pool, i mean they see these pro's running out like well water, and staying in perfect line, very little real "fire power" is displayed and in my opinion, its just boring to watch if your not a pool fanatic.

What the game needs is another Keith Mcready... a young kid, fearless, taking on all comers, walking around with his old "the worlds got the 8" shirt, chatting it up, and pumping new blood into the game...

Shane is a great champion, and one of the best rotation players i have seen recently, but the spark, the charisma just isn't there now... and not just him, but when was the last time you saw a champion, on the TV table, playing to the crowd? to the pro's, its a business (and understandably so, its how they make a living) but in order to attract the new people, i think we need a player that can bring them in.

Pool could use a Keith McCready personality, but a 2012 Keith McCready, not the '80s version. Entertainment and personality is what made the Fats versus Mosconi saga popular on ESPN. Everybody enjoyed listening to Minnesota Fats spin a yarn, as they do when Keith is in the house. It's so ironic that pool entities don't recognize Keith for anything, yet he's so popular with the pool fans. These entities would rather celebrate robotic emotionless players or forum friends of friends with their honors. I never did understand that, but it doesn't bother Keith, so I guess it shouldn't bother me, either. :smile:

 

[Hungarian]

Pool needs a Rickie Fowler for the younger generation to aspire to. Pool industry would welcome a Rickie Fowler, I'd imagine, if they got fans like this attending pool happenings.

Shane should be our Ricky Fowler.

 

[JAM]

Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
It's really very simple JAM.

It always comes down to the people involved in the industry, and the people not involved in the industry. Mostly the people not involved in the industry are not involved because of the people who are involved in the industry.

voilà! J. ]



If you were Donald Trump, George Steinbrenner, or Magic Johnson, would you invest in golf, baseball, tennis, or pool? Which environment would prefer spending your life in? Rhetorical questions.

J.

Very valid point. If I had money, I'd probably invest in something other than sports. I'd definitely give some to non-profits and charity.

Pro pool players are borderline charity today. If you sponsor them, what is the ROI on that at a pool event? The industry member would rather support the industry member and get brand recognition than sponsor a pro player in America.

 

[JAM]

As we know, sponsorship is advertising. When a really big corporation has money to splash around sometimes it is just to raise the profile but most advertising is to make money more directly.

I have advertised on TV, radio, flyers, mass mailings, pretty much every method including sponsoring events and teams. Some of my mass mailings got very good response, I always included a discount for bringing the mailing in so I knew if it worked or not. Five or ten percent is huge with a mass mailing. Lost my rear on TV and radio advertising, same with newspaper. Of all of the conventional means of advertising including sponsorship, by far the most successful thing was yellow page advertising back when there was only one big player in phone books and a couple small players that weren't big enough to be concerned with. I spent about $20,000 a year on yellow pages, say enough to sponsor one pool event. Even had I been in a pool related industry I wouldn't have gotten more than a small fraction of the same result from sponsoring an event.

Another catch is that there has to be a tangible connection between sponsorship and sales. The event happens, there is a local bloom in sales. The event is shown on TV there is a nationwide bloom in sales. It is reshown, there is a smaller bloom. Does pool sponsorship cause a significant blip where any sponsor can be sure that their support of an event resulted in sales? My bet is that it doesn't for any of the big players.

I suspect AZB, word of mouth, sells more Diamond tables than any event they sponsor. The events may indeed raise their profile but that can be very difficult to document. Ask any hundred people on the street to name three pool table brands and at least 90 will probably give you a blank stare or start guessing.

There is enough sponsorship at one weekend of NASCAR racing to support pool for decades. Why? Almost perfect advertising. Tens of thousands of fans present, millions watching on TV. Plus the cars themselves are huge billboards. Your driver winning is great but even your driver crashing may get you millions in "free" advertising.

What happens when you sponsor a pool event? The general public, the new customer you are trying to reach, doesn't even notice. Five or ten percent of the pool players and hardcore fans think what you did was wonderful and rhe rest are bashing you because the water was too high priced at the event, or the carpet was stained, or you should be doing a lot more!

Sponsor a pool player and he represents your business. What male pool player in the US today do you want representing your business? Many have a past that can't stand much light, few act professional at all times, most that understand they should act professional don't have any presence to be noticed.

To attract a sponsorship a competitor needs to be colorful but not offensive, attractive, young, and competitive. They also have to dress and behave professionally, 24/7. Few sponsors, a lot of competitors so a competitor needs to be perfection plus to get and keep a sponsor.

I drifted into the subject matter of another thread but it is all one thing really. Pro pool needs excitement and color but not controversy. A tall order.

Hu

I have seen AzBilliards Discussion Forum grow leaps and bounds the past decade. Do you think it has peaked with the advent of social media Web sites?

Many former AzBilliards' members are moving their colloquy about pool to Facebook instead of posting here, as an example. Some do not even post here anymore. Facebook, of course, is self-moderating in a way, which is interesting when you think about it. You can pick and choose who you want to read and who you want reading you.

Can Facebook advance pool in America, do you think?

 

[justadub]

I am convinced that for any "pro" pool to gain traction here in the states, there must be a ranking system in place. To capture the American publics attention, they need to have some sense of where one player is compared to another. They probably won't know the names right away, but if they know #6 is playing #2, that gives them a sense of where the players are at. And what it could mean... I hate to keep comparing it to tennis, but a casual viewer will see that ranking, and know that player is one of the favorites, right away. Whether they've ever heard of the player or not.

Justin and mark seem to get this, that's gotta be part of why they talk of establishing a TAR ranking.

And no, I don't know who should create such a ranking. I was hopeful that what was being used for the mosconi cup might develop into a real ranking system, but that has gone backwards. Perhaps mike and jerry here on AZB could establish a ranking, based on a 10 or 12 tournament schedule, next year... They are certainly in tune with what happens with pool here in the states.

Saucy a system "save" pro pool here, no. But I don't think it can be saved without it.

 

[JAM]

I am convinced that for any "pro" pool to gain traction here in the states, there must be a ranking system in place. To capture the American publics attention, they need to have some sense of where one player is compared to another. They probably won't know the names right away, but if they know #6 is playing #2, that gives them a sense of where the players are at. And what it could mean... I hate to keep comparing it to tennis, but a casual viewer will see that ranking, and know that player is one of the favorites, right away. Whether they've ever heard of the player or not...

...And no, I don't know who should create such a ranking. I was hopeful that what was being used for the mosconi cup might develop into a real ranking system, but that has gone backwards. Perhaps mike and jerry here on AZB could establish a ranking, based on a 10 or 12 tournament schedule, next year... They are certainly in tune with what happens with pool here in the states.

Saucy a system "save" pro pool here, no. But I don't think it can be saved without it.

Good point about the ranking system. Believe it or not, this is what the BCA is supposed to do, but they seemed to have dropped the ball. I'd like to see them move in the direction of having a BCA Open and have only American players compete, not like they used to have it with half the field reserved for international players and the other half reserved for UPA favorites.

 

[JAM]

Good point about the ranking system. Believe it or not, this is what the BCA is supposed to do, but they seemed to have dropped the ball. I'd like to see them move in the direction of having a BCA Open and have only American players compete, not like they used to have it with half the field reserved for international players and the other half reserved for UPA favorites.

With the BCA consisting of industry members, why on earth can't they pool a few crumbs together and host a BCA Open? That's the least they can do for professional pool.

Instead, they sponsor each other for name recognition, and pro players are left organization-less in the eyes of the WPA.

 

[jimmyg]

Very valid point. If I had money, I'd probably invest in something other than sports. I'd definitely give some to non-profits and charity.

Pro pool players are borderline charity today. If you sponsor them, what is the ROI on that at a pool event? The industry member would rather support the industry member and get brand recognition than sponsor a pro player in America.

The people currently involved in the pool industry do not have, or are not willing to risk, the massive amount of funds necessary to create the sea change necessary to make that risk viable. I certainly wouldn't, not that I could.

It's not just a matter of opening a great room, or initiating a successful tournament, or even a tour. The people who are able to make sea changes in an industry think much larger than local, or regional, they think national and international, again, think tennis, golf, baseball, these are investment in the hundreds of million dollar range, and the returns are even greater, they have to be. Pool, for many reasons known and unknown, just has never evolved to the point of that being feasible.

Another factor is environment, (generally) the people with that kind of money usually want to be in an exclusive environment most of the time. When you go to major tennis, golf, or baseball, events, the executive boxes that they sit in are lavish, catered food and drink, lush furniture, the entire experience is lavish; valet parking, beautiful, landscaped, grounds, ushers, waiters, etc. Sure, some of those same people like to play pool, and even go to the average poolrooms, but they aren't going to emerge themselves in the "pool" life, financially or emotionally.

Without that massive vision, and the means to create it, pool stays small and local. IMO.

J.

 

[JAM]

The people currently involved in the pool industry do not have, or are not willing to risk, the massive amount of funds necessary to create the sea change necessary to make that risk viable. I certainly wouldn't, not that I could.

It's not just a matter of opening a great room, or initiating a successful tournament, or even a tour. The people who are able to make sea changes in an industry think much larger than local, or regional, they think national and international, again, think tennis, golf, baseball, these are investment in the hundreds of million dollar range, and the returns are even greater, they have to be. Pool, for many reasons known and unknown, just has never evolved to the point of that being feasible.

Another factor is environment, (generally) the people with that kind of money usually want to be in an exclusive environment most of the time. When you go to major tennis, golf, or baseball, events, the executive boxes that they sit in are lavish, catered food and drink, lush furniture, the entire experience is lavish; valet parking, beautiful, landscaped, grounds, ushers, waiters, etc. Sure, some of those same people like to play pool, and even go to the average poolrooms, but they aren't going to emerge themselves in the "pool" life, financially or emotionally.

Without that massive vision, and the means to create it, pool stays small and local. IMO.

J.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were writing about the IPT.

 

[cajunfats]

Many Reasons

It's really very simple JAM. :smile:

It always comes down to the people involved in the industry, and the people not involved in the industry. Mostly the people not involved in the industry are not involved because of the people who are involved in the industry.

voilà!

J.

jimmyg, you have made a statement of particular interest to me.

Most of the members on AZ, do not know me. I am not a former road player,champion,industry professional or owner.

I am a pool enthusiast,who fortunately, had the opportunity to be a part of the BCA from 1993-1996. I served as the Assistant League and Program Director under John Lewis during that time. A man who knows as much about pool as anyone in the world.

With that,you acquire access to the coming and going of the Trade Association and their Membership.

The Association has always been about the Business of Pool,not pool playing. Yes,it supports many aspects of pool participation,but always looked on Players and Leagues as a sort of benevolent aspect of business.
In one degree,you might call it a tolerant relative. In another,a frugal neighbor.

Although a lot of time has passed since I left the BCA, I have followed Pool from a distance,and hoped,like You and Others,that we might see some positive changes. IMHO,that change occured recently when Mark Griffin acquired the Leagues. However, there was a collective sigh of relief from many Industry Members,who welcomed the divorce. It was as if a burden was lifted. I'm sure APA and VNEA and other League Systems who were members were glad,because for some reason they saw the BCA League as having an advantage over them. This was far from true,as the constraints on us were enormous. Everything we did had to fall under the 501(3)c requirements of the Trade Association.

It was for this reason John spent a great deal of time with developing the WPA and the WCBS to make his dream of Olympic Recognition possible.

None of that really helped to formulate an American Program to develop a Professional Organization for Pool. Politics,pure and simple. Wasted time,wasted energy,wasted talent,and of course wasted money.
That is why I respect Mark Griffin for what he is doing. He is walking the walk,and taking the risks. It will take time,but we have to do more.

We are still at loggerheads on where this is going. The Women have no real organization, the Men are worse off today than ever, and we have almost nothing that develops our Youth through the secondary school system. Sigh!

I thank the readers for their indulgence. See some of you in Tunica.

 

[Snapshot9]

Jenny

We have 2 private groups on Facebook here in Wichita, the main one is
Wichita Pool Players, and the other one is Pool Players (regional for players in towns out and around Wichita).

At Stix, my home room, we have weekly Challenge matches on Saturday night at 9 for $500 per man, playing 5 sets, race to 7, on a big table (can play Challenges on a barbox too if desired). The owner, Joe, also puts in a $100 for the winner. We have a commentator, with a laptop connected to the Internet giving play by play messages on Facebook during the match.
The matches are also recorded, and put on Youtube later.

We also have what we call 'Matinee' matches for $250 per man, playing 5 sets, race to 5 9 ball on a big table. They are played at 3 on Saturday afternoon.

Challenges are made on Facebook in the group. Tournament announcements, and anything Pool for local players is reflected on Facebook.

We have a statistics page where the schedule for Challenges is listed, plus we are ranking players much like boxing does. We keep records and standings of all the Challenge matches.

Not only that but Stix has 5 weekly tournaments all with a 200% payback.
9 ball and handicapped 8 ball.

Everyone is excited again about Pool at Stix, and Joe does a good business. He has 20 barboxes, 3 big tables, and a Snooker table. He keeps his barboxes at .50 per game. It is all working pretty well.