NAPA or UPA

zpele

zpele

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alright so as previously stated- I am looking to become a League Operator in my area. There is currently a vacuum here and players have no other options outside of the APA.

Does anyone have any opinions on the UPA versus the NAPA leagues?

They are both attractive for different reasons which I'll list below:

NAPA license costs less than the UPA and the player base is about as large.

NAPA has a national tournament every year.

UPA is based off of pro experience and has close ties to the pros.

UPA seems to have more support for the league operators as far as training goes.



One of the main things that is holding me back from the UPA is a lack of national tournament and the cost associated with buying a license.


Thanks for any input you guys can give me.
 
One of my biggest complaints about the local APA is that the LO does not treat me like a customer (which I am... I don't need to spend money -- on top of the quarters for the table-- just to play pool and have my results recorded.) It drives me apeshit.

So instead of asking us, have you asked your potential customers which they would prefer?
 
League

I looked into NAPA awhile back, and it seems to be a nice option. It is not too widespread yet, and I found it to be attractive as far as format, operation, etc.

The fact that they also have Nationals is a plus too. I would chose NAPA over the UPA.
 
krupa said:
One of my biggest complaints about the local APA is that the LO does not treat me like a customer (which I am... I don't need to spend money -- on top of the quarters for the table-- just to play pool and have my results recorded.) It drives me apeshit.

So instead of asking us, have you asked your potential customers which they would prefer?
Click to expand...

Being as I currently play in the APA I am very hesitant to ask players which they would prefer. Politics being what they are if word gets around to the wrong people about what I am doing it could all go up in smoke not to mention severely limit my ability to play in the APA.

Depending on which league I choose I don't plan on making money from it for at least 3 years.

I plan on putting on added tournaments with the money I would otherwise have made as well as creating more prizes for the players. I understand that in order to be able to compete with the APA I need to offer more incentives to the players. Towards that I want to make the league bring new players in because of the money they can make as compared to the APA.
 
JC said:
What about BCA? It doesn't get much cheaper and easier than with them.

JC
Click to expand...

The BCA is not currently one of my choices for various reasons. Not to badmouth anyone but the reason they are cheap is because you actually own nothing as an LO. I am looking to make a business- not help someone else grow an already existing business.

Not to mention that they are trying too hard to 'get a piece of the pie' where the APA is concerned. I am looking for the next big thing in the pool world not a carbon copy of an existing, antiquated idea.
 
zpele said:
The BCA is not currently one of my choices for various reasons. Not to badmouth anyone but the reason they are cheap is because you actually own nothing as an LO. I am looking to make a business- not help someone else grow an already existing business.

Not to mention that they are trying too hard to 'get a piece of the pie' where the APA is concerned. I am looking for the next big thing in the pool world not a carbon copy of an existing, antiquated idea.
Click to expand...

Understood.

Personally I don't think the next big thing in the pool world has been thought of yet. Not for lack of some good minds being put to the task either.

JC
 
I think there are many good ideas out there but the UPA may be out of my price range if I dont get backers. Because of that I think they may be pricing themselves out of growing quicker and being as its a dog eat dog world out there I believe the NAPA will continue to grow at a quicker rate.

Its still hard to choose though being as how the UPA has many more pro connections and connections within the billiard world.
 
I am one of the LO for napa in mid south. Napa does not require training because they handle everything for you to make sure no adjusting for the wrong reasons. Its hard to sell a league with no nationals (no matter how good it is) and they offer team limits (like apa 23) or no team limits. The races are as fair as you can get so the no limit will not benefit a team with all 7's. And we allow pros also except we do not have any in Memphis. We are doing a tournament during the Southern Classic and it should be great!!! If you have any questions maybe you should try calling NAPA headquarters Napaleagues.com or message me but they could help you out alot more also.
 
NAPA for several reasons.

Glad the NAPA is making it around AZB.

The North American Poolshooters Association is growing rather rapidly. One of the main reasons is the organization has focused their efforts as a whole group.

Their LO program is simple, so simple in fact, it enables the LO of either a single territory or multiple, to focus on the task at hand--promoting teams and players to the league without the worry of all the back-end work to make it happen.

The LOCO system online, which is maned by real people, does a large amount of the back-end work, such as scheduling, score data entry, award delegation, and it's backed by the most comprehensive online database billiards has ever seen.

NAPA is getting ready to roller over 7,000 players nationwide with almost 100 operators.

I currently oversee 300 players and 35 teams. I grew this in one of the most competitive league markets in the country in less than 18 months. Columbus, Ohio.

Of course I have vast knowledge of amateur leagues, knew many key contacts locally which enabled the quick success in acquiring teams and players.

I'd be happy to speak with you about it, but first you'll have to use this link to get started. http://www.napaleagues.com/page.php?page=start

I'm not an appointed spokesperson for NAPA, so I won't be able to directly speak about certain things. You'll have to speak with Jeremy Jones or Amy Jones about that. They are the President & Vice-President of the league.

You can call me anytime at our Columbus League Office 614-750-7665 and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Zach Goldsmith
zach.goldsmith@napaleagues.com
www.napaleagues.com National Site
www.napaohio.com Central Ohio NAPA Site
614-750-POOL(7665)
 
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n0risc said:
Glad the NAPA is making it around AZB.

The North American Poolshooters Association is growing rather rapidly. One of the main reasons is the organization has focused their efforts as a whole group.

Their LO program is simple, so simple in fact, it enables the LO of either a single territory or multiple, to focus on the task at hand--promoting teams and players to the league without the worry of all the back-end work to make it happen.

The LOCO system online, which is maned by real people, does a large amount of the back-end work, such as scheduling, score data entry, award delegation, and it's backed by the most comprehensive online database billiards has ever seen.

NAPA is getting ready to roller over 7,000 players nationwide with almost 100 operators.

I currently oversee 300 players and 35 teams. I grew this in one of the most competitive league markets in the country in less than 18 months. Columbus, Ohio.

Of course I have vast knowledge of amateur leagues, knew many key contacts locally which enabled the quick success in acquiring teams and players.

I'd be happy to speak with you about it, but first you'll have to use this link to get started. http://www.napaleagues.com/page.php?page=start

I'm not an appointed spokesperson for NAPA, so I won't be able to directly speak about certain things. You'll have to speak with Jeremy Jones or Amy Jones about that. They are the President & Vice-President of the league.

You can call me anytime at our Columbus League Office 614-750-7665 and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Zach Goldsmith
zach.goldsmith@napaleagues.com
www.napaleagues.com National Site
www.napaohio.com Central Ohio NAPA Site
614-750-POOL(7665)
Click to expand...

Thank you for that I just talked with Amy today from the NAPA and Frank Alvarez from the UPA.

I am leaning more and more towards the NAPA but it almost seems too good to be true.

I also have many contacts within my area and this could be a very good thing for me but it almost seems too easy.

What are some of the potential pitfalls one can expect?
 
i don't know if this will help as it's just how i feel. i have been a member of the apa and bca for about 5 years each now. i just joined upa two weeks ago.
apa
i personally can care less aboout the apa national tournament. it is a pie in the sky dream unless you sandbag and have at least four other players below handicap as well. otherwise it's too tough to fade, winning the division, the qualifier, cities, and finally vegas. i guess you could win playing fair but i doubt it. i play apa for 3 things. 1, i have alot of friends who play, i enjoy seeing them. 2, i actually like my l.o. as opposed to many members here. 3, the plastic trophies. i played football most of my young life and have nothing to show for it except a torn up shoulder, bad back, sore knees and ankle and messed up nose. i want to have trophies for something in my life:D i am going to be down to one apa team at the end of this session most likely.
bca
i used to play bca because it was a pay out at the end of session depending on where your team finished. then an end of session tourney where you could win more. i like the "any team can pay to go" national tournament. that's what those payments were supposed to got to if your team was going, if not enjoy the cash. the new bca division i play in doesn't do that. pay out structure (and a lot of other things i am finding out) can and are determined by the l.o. you play x number of weeks to be eligable. top half of eligable players get trip to vegas paid. usually about 18-25 people. we have over 50 people in the division. i am not good enough to be in the top half. i will never win anything. also most of the top 15 players are on 3 teams. so they have the advantage of having to play each other much less than the rest of us. so i pay all my money for other people to have free trips to vegas. i am probobly not playing when the new session starts unless this changes. also there is no incentive to sandbag - very nice:thumbup:
upa
this all brought me to upa. half of the money we pay in gets paid back at the end of the session. 9 ball is played according to "normal rules" ie. push after break, jump cues allowed, 3 foul in effect. scoring is a little different, makes sandbagging a little harder. sure you can lay low for a while but when you turn it on you will go up. and once you go up you can never go back down. to me it seems to be where i fit the best. i think i will be happy here.
i shoot as an apa 6 in 8 and 9 ball. i bounce between a mid to high 7 or very low 8 average in bca and after two weeks in upa i am shooting as a 6. i say this to say i am the definition of recreational player. i will never be even short stop speed. i play league for my entertainment and to get a reward. what ever franchise you choose to buy, think about how it will reward your players. that is what will bring the business and make you sucessful.
 
zpele said:
Thank you for that I just talked with Amy today from the NAPA and Frank Alvarez from the UPA.

I am leaning more and more towards the NAPA but it almost seems too good to be true.

I also have many contacts within my area and this could be a very good thing for me but it almost seems too easy.

What are some of the potential pitfalls one can expect?
Click to expand...

The only serious issues that I've ran into is where teams want to join late.. You need to make sure you have everything completed for submitting your rosters to the LOCO system. If you have teams like a week later or 2 weeks later after the division has started, they will have to wait till next time.

This ensures all fairness to both sides.

In all honesty, I have had no other serious issues, or issues that were not taken care of either on my end, or theirs.

There are however extra steps I have taken upon myself to make my territory more manageable since It is spread out. I have also adopted a travel assistance fund to aid all of our players a free way to Nationals.

Plus I've enlisted a local Trophy and Plaque company for awards. Funny here it is the BCAPL League Operator and his side business. I have a great relationship with Chris Williams, Central Ohio BCA operator. We have actually come together to make the Central Ohio League experience fun and fair. It has worked out for both our our benefits.

Hope this helps.

Zach.
 
jrt30004 said:
i don't know if this will help as it's just how i feel. i have been a member of the apa and bca for about 5 years each now. i just joined upa two weeks ago.
apa
i personally can care less aboout the apa national tournament. it is a pie in the sky dream unless you sandbag and have at least four other players below handicap as well. otherwise it's too tough to fade, winning the division, the qualifier, cities, and finally vegas. i guess you could win playing fair but i doubt it. i play apa for 3 things. 1, i have alot of friends who play, i enjoy seeing them. 2, i actually like my l.o. as opposed to many members here. 3, the plastic trophies. i played football most of my young life and have nothing to show for it except a torn up shoulder, bad back, sore knees and ankle and messed up nose. i want to have trophies for something in my life:D i am going to be down to one apa team at the end of this session most likely.
bca
i used to play bca because it was a pay out at the end of session depending on where your team finished. then an end of session tourney where you could win more. i like the "any team can pay to go" national tournament. that's what those payments were supposed to got to if your team was going, if not enjoy the cash. the new bca division i play in doesn't do that. pay out structure (and a lot of other things i am finding out) can and are determined by the l.o. you play x number of weeks to be eligable. top half of eligable players get trip to vegas paid. usually about 18-25 people. we have over 50 people in the division. i am not good enough to be in the top half. i will never win anything. also most of the top 15 players are on 3 teams. so they have the advantage of having to play each other much less than the rest of us. so i pay all my money for other people to have free trips to vegas. i am probobly not playing when the new session starts unless this changes. also there is no incentive to sandbag - very nice:thumbup:
upa
this all brought me to upa. half of the money we pay in gets paid back at the end of the session. 9 ball is played according to "normal rules" ie. push after break, jump cues allowed, 3 foul in effect. scoring is a little different, makes sandbagging a little harder. sure you can lay low for a while but when you turn it on you will go up. and once you go up you can never go back down. to me it seems to be where i fit the best. i think i will be happy here.
i shoot as an apa 6 in 8 and 9 ball. i bounce between a mid to high 7 or very low 8 average in bca and after two weeks in upa i am shooting as a 6. i say this to say i am the definition of recreational player. i will never be even short stop speed. i play league for my entertainment and to get a reward. what ever franchise you choose to buy, think about how it will reward your players. that is what will bring the business and make you sucessful.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind The NAPA is not a copy cat league. It is unique, true, adopted form by players for players, and by operators for operators.

The adopted ELO rating system NAPA uses is bar none the least manipulated scoring system ever invented, hence the reason why it's used for the most sophisticated game known to man, Chess.

Zach.
 
jrt30004 said:
i don't know if this will help as it's just how i feel. i have been a member of the apa and bca for about 5 years each now. i just joined upa two weeks ago.
apa
i personally can care less aboout the apa national tournament. it is a pie in the sky dream unless you sandbag and have at least four other players below handicap as well. otherwise it's too tough to fade, winning the division, the qualifier, cities, and finally vegas. i guess you could win playing fair but i doubt it. i play apa for 3 things. 1, i have alot of friends who play, i enjoy seeing them. 2, i actually like my l.o. as opposed to many members here. 3, the plastic trophies. i played football most of my young life and have nothing to show for it except a torn up shoulder, bad back, sore knees and ankle and messed up nose. i want to have trophies for something in my life:D i am going to be down to one apa team at the end of this session most likely.
bca
i used to play bca because it was a pay out at the end of session depending on where your team finished. then an end of session tourney where you could win more. i like the "any team can pay to go" national tournament. that's what those payments were supposed to got to if your team was going, if not enjoy the cash. the new bca division i play in doesn't do that. pay out structure (and a lot of other things i am finding out) can and are determined by the l.o. you play x number of weeks to be eligable. top half of eligable players get trip to vegas paid. usually about 18-25 people. we have over 50 people in the division. i am not good enough to be in the top half. i will never win anything. also most of the top 15 players are on 3 teams. so they have the advantage of having to play each other much less than the rest of us. so i pay all my money for other people to have free trips to vegas. i am probobly not playing when the new session starts unless this changes. also there is no incentive to sandbag - very nice:thumbup:
upa
this all brought me to upa. half of the money we pay in gets paid back at the end of the session. 9 ball is played according to "normal rules" ie. push after break, jump cues allowed, 3 foul in effect. scoring is a little different, makes sandbagging a little harder. sure you can lay low for a while but when you turn it on you will go up. and once you go up you can never go back down. to me it seems to be where i fit the best. i think i will be happy here.
i shoot as an apa 6 in 8 and 9 ball. i bounce between a mid to high 7 or very low 8 average in bca and after two weeks in upa i am shooting as a 6. i say this to say i am the definition of recreational player. i will never be even short stop speed. i play league for my entertainment and to get a reward. what ever franchise you choose to buy, think about how it will reward your players. that is what will bring the business and make you sucessful.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input you see some of the problems inherent with both the APA and the BCA. At this time I am more leaning towards the NAPA based on both my research and what I have heard from others.

As far as never making it to nationals in the APA... Just go for the singles. I just got back a few weeks ago from them:)
 
zpele said:
Thank you for that I just talked with Amy today from the NAPA and Frank Alvarez from the UPA.

I am leaning more and more towards the NAPA but it almost seems too good to be true.

I also have many contacts within my area and this could be a very good thing for me but it almost seems too easy.

What are some of the potential pitfalls one can expect?
Click to expand...

pitfalls ? i would suggest you do a search on here for threads about leagues. there is one thread in particular fron whammo57 i believe concerning how people feel about their league operators.

in these threads you will here people complaining about everything under the sun.
the lo does nothing
the lo makes too much money off of us
the lo shows favoritism to certain teams or players
the lo raised my handicap
the lo should raise that players handicap

i could go on and on and on but i hope you get the idea.

remember this... you can please all the people some of the time, you can please some of the people all the time, BUT YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME .

do not go into it with the idea of you are competing with another league or trying to take another leagues players. do not go into it with the idea my league is better than yours so that is why you should join mine, that is a big turnoff. just let players know they have more than one option. let them know you have no problem with them playing both leagues.

we have napa playing in a pool hall at the same time as an in house league.

we have an apa league playing in a pool hall at the same time as a money league. as a matter of fact i play on both teams that night and the room owner sponsers both teams.

leagues can co-exsist in the same room if you have the right attitude. i play in 3 different leagues each week and love them all.

good luck in your venture.
 
n0risc said:
The only serious issues that I've ran into is where teams want to join late.. You need to make sure you have everything completed for submitting your rosters to the LOCO system. If you have teams like a week later or 2 weeks later after the division has started, they will have to wait till next time.

This ensures all fairness to both sides.

In all honesty, I have had no other serious issues, or issues that were not taken care of either on my end, or theirs.

There are however extra steps I have taken upon myself to make my territory more manageable since It is spread out. I have also adopted a travel assistance fund to aid all of our players a free way to Nationals.

Plus I've enlisted a local Trophy and Plaque company for awards. Funny here it is the BCAPL League Operator and his side business. I have a great relationship with Chris Williams, Central Ohio BCA operator. We have actually come together to make the Central Ohio League experience fun and fair. It has worked out for both our our benefits.

Hope this helps.

Zach.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for your response. The reason I guess this all seems too easy is because I know it will take off in my area and it seems to be too good as far as money is concerned in the long run.

I've been looking for an opportunity like this for a long time and it amazes me to think I may have finally found it.

As far as a long term goal- I really intend to do my part to help the sport of pool in this country and whatever money I get from this endeavor I want to put back into the sport as an investment.
 
jrt30004 said:
upa
this all brought me to upa. half of the money we pay in gets paid back at the end of the session. 9 ball is played according to "normal rules" ie. push after break, jump cues allowed, 3 foul in effect. scoring is a little different, makes sandbagging a little harder. sure you can lay low for a while but when you turn it on you will go up. and once you go up you can never go back down. to me it seems to be where i fit the best. i think i will be happy here.
i shoot as an apa 6 in 8 and 9 ball. i bounce between a mid to high 7 or very low 8 average in bca and after two weeks in upa i am shooting as a 6. i say this to say i am the definition of recreational player. i will never be even short stop speed. i play league for my entertainment and to get a reward. what ever franchise you choose to buy, think about how it will reward your players. that is what will bring the business and make you sucessful.
Click to expand...

NAPA offers 8,9,10 and all are adopted from world standardized rules.

NAPA Score keeping for all 3 formats are exactly the same enabling potential league players to try something new, they don't have to learn 2 sets of attributes to be successful. Scorekeeping and the Game format.

NAPA Score keeping is the simplest in the business. No one on a particular team, from both teams for that matter, night will be ruined by the quest of keeping a watchful eye on all the matches. NAPA has solved that very #1 issue among all amateur leagues. You mark win/loses and bonus achievements in either Break & Runs, 8,9,10 on the break, Rackless Match. It is that simple.

The competition has more for you keep track of on a persons ability which is nice! But that is the root that opens the cause for sandbagging. If you are going to attribute many aspects of ones game into their handicap or skill level, then it will be manipulated. That is the detriment.

Hope this helps.

Zach.
 
zpele said:
Thanks again for your response. The reason I guess this all seems too easy is because I know it will take off in my area and it seems to be too good as far as money is concerned in the long run.

I've been looking for an opportunity like this for a long time and it amazes me to think I may have finally found it.

As far as a long term goal- I really intend to do my part to help the sport of pool in this country and whatever money I get from this endeavor I want to put back into the sport as an investment.
Click to expand...

You'll be glad that you did. And in the future It will be a pleasure to meet you at Nationals, or maybe a large tournament.

Zach.
 
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