My Aiming System

[GoBilliards]

It almost seems to me that a reoccurring theme in this forrum is this.A guy says his opinion about anything, others pick him apart.

Tro is absolutely correct. The proverb "Keep it simple , stupid" comes to mind. Rene Russo on "Tin Cup" also comes to mind. The scene when she has crap hanging from her hat and 25 other gadgets to teach her to hit a golf ball.

Anyone who thinks they can make a ball without hitting it on the face opposite of the pocket has the 5 and out whenever they would like to play. If you bet enough, I will come to you.

If your income revolves around selling lessions you might tend to over complicate things. This is a very easy game conceptually. It is a very difficult game in practice. So Practice more and intelectualize less. You will be way ahead of your peers

 

[lstevedus]

Thank you Pletho and GoBilliards. You said what I wanted to say, and said it better than I ever could. Aiming is important, but only one of so many other skills that you have to master to become a complete player. Some of those skills don't have anything to do with pocketing balls, for example, learning to deal with distractions.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

pletho:
There may be things that help you find the aiming point to help you be more SURE that you are going to hit the correct spot to pocket the ball, BUT there is no substitute to just hitting the ball, and learning from trial and error.

You contradict yourself. "Things that help you find the aiming point" is not "just hitting the ball".

pj
chgo

 

[mista335]

It will work for everyone. Put in the time and hit the object ball on the face opposite the pocket.

The problem I see is everyone over complicating how to make a ball.

I guess for you anything other than that is complicated.

I thought we were beyond all the "I aim like this and everyone else should too" kind of thinking.

Did it occur to you that other aiming systems aren't complicated to a lot of people? Just complicated for you.

You can do better for aiming than just trial and error.

 

[pletho]

You contradict yourself. "Things that help you find the aiming point" is not "just hitting the ball".

pj
chgo

There is no contradiction here.............

Maybe you just misunderstand?

Where's the contradiction?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There is no contradiction here.............

Maybe you just misunderstand?

Where's the contradiction?

You say "just hitting the ball" is the whole enchilada, but also say that other "things [can] help you find the aiming point". Those other things are not "just hitting the ball"; they're something added that "help".

pj
chgo

 

[pletho]

I guess for you anything other than that is complicated.

I thought we were beyond all the "I aim like this and everyone else should too" kind of thinking.

Did it occur to you that other aiming systems aren't complicated to a lot of people? Just complicated for you.

You can do better for aiming than just trial and error.

Trial and error, is how you learn. Of course it's nice to have an idea before you hit the ball to what direction and side of the ball you need to hit, but unless you try (trial) and either make or miss it you will not build in your mind a memory bank to learn from....

Im not suggesting to just go and hit a ball withouut having some basic idea of the direction and side of the ball to hit, that would be kinda foolish.

Im saying that no matter what, your mind works by trial and error, it learns, it adapts. The more you play, the more balls you hit the more you will learn what does and what does not work.

There are no short cuts........

You all can argue semantics until doomsday if you would like, but the truth is, just get out there and hit as many balls as you can. Over time you will learn. And after you learn how to make a ball by natural memory, you can add your systems to the process, which can help with your shooting confidence.....

I'm not here to argue.

Im not saying that aiming systems do not help people. I am saying that aiming systems are NO substitute for just shooting the balls, over and over again.

In our instant gratification society everyone wants something for nothing.

You got to work hard to be the best or great..... period, there is no magical solution...

But people will try to sell you one..............

Again, many of these systems are based on solid principles, but they still are no substitute for just getting out there and shooting the balls over an and over again.....

 

[pletho]

You say "just hitting the ball" is the whole enchilada, but also say that other "things [can] help you find the aiming point". Those other things are not "just hitting the ball"; they're something added that "help".

pj
chgo

Yes, thats the major part of the whole thing, but not just hitting it into the rail lol!

Finding an aiming point can be done by just looking at the ball and pocket via common sense and then shooting the ball.

Finding the aiming poing with a system, does not assure you will make the ball.

You have got to shoot the ball.

Most aiming systems just show you how to find the aiming point, and help you line up, they never get you to make the ball. The delivery is entirely up to you. You have to shoot the balls over and over again.

You will get farther shooting balls over and over again with no aiming system provided your using common sense. Because your mind is powerful and will allow you to learn right from wrong.

Simple...

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Feel is a system too, and I think that is what you mean by common sense.

And yes, getting into position to make a ball and delivering the cuestick on the correct line are two different things. In my opinion you cannot have one without the other. If either breaks down, then you miss.

The proponents of aiming systems have never said practice is not needed.

Yes, thats the major part of the whole thing, but not just hitting it into the rail lol!

Finding an aiming point can be done by just looking at the ball and pocket via common sense and then shooting the ball.

Finding the aiming poing with a system, does not assure you will make the ball.

You have got to shoot the ball.

Most aiming systems just show you how to find the aiming point, and help you line up, they never get you to make the ball. The delivery is entirely up to you. You have to shoot the balls over and over again.

You will get farther shooting balls over and over again with no aiming system provided your using common sense. Because your mind is powerful and will allow you to learn right from wrong.

Simple...

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You will get farther shooting balls over and over again with no aiming system provided your using common sense.

Farther than what? Using an aiming system without practicing? Who do you think does that?

I don't use an aiming system, but I don't think those who do believe they're a "substitute" for practice.

pj
chgo

 

[JolietJames]

Another vote for Tro and Gobilliards here.
I aim exactly like tro it seems. My mind draws a red laser line from the center of the pocket opening through to the back side of the OB. That's where I attempt to hit the CB. Aiming is that simple for everyone who can see intersecting lines. If you can't see the lines I sure hope you don't drive on public roadways.
The main problem I see with Tro's system is its too simple to package and sell -so someone needs to discredit it asap. Let's instead talk about how incredibly difficult it is for a mere human to determine the correct part of the OB to hit with the CB and add a bunch of extra needless lines to complicate things enough that people will need to buy a DVD to understand it.
This was about aiming only so we won't talk about the need to learn proper fundamentals. This just covers seeing the line, and getting on the line. After that you can close your eyes and pocket the ball assuming your fundamentals (which we aren't talking about) are correct.

 

[theUBC]

Aiming

@pATRICK

SOOOOO TRUE!

YOU CAN NOT SUBSTITUTE TABLE TIME YOU MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE!


ANYTHING YOU DO SYSTEMATIC IS A SYSTEM!

NO MATTER IF IT IS

GHOST BALL
BACK OF THE BALL
CTE
OVERLAPPING METHOD
DOUBLE THE DISTANCE
PRO1
SAM
SEE
CJ WILEY`S

OR WHATEVER OTHER SYSTEM


ALL THEY DO IS GIVING REFERENCES TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GET THE RIGHT PICTURE AND SOME ARE EASIER TO UNDERSTAND THAN OTHERS BUT THEY ALL HAVE GREAT VALUE!!!!


OR

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Add feel as a system too.

@pATRICK

SOOOOO TRUE!

YOU CAN NOT SUBSTITUTE TABLE TIME YOU MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE!


ANYTHING YOU DO SYSTEMATIC IS A SYSTEM!

NO MATTER IF IT IS

GHOST BALL
BACK OF THE BALL
CTE
OVERLAPPING METHOD
DOUBLE THE DISTANCE
PRO1
SAM
SEE
CJ WILEY`S

OR WHATEVER OTHER SYSTEM


ALL THEY DO IS GIVING REFERENCES TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GET THE RIGHT PICTURE AND SOME ARE EASIER TO UNDERSTAND THAN OTHERS BUT THEY ALL HAVE GREAT VALUE!!!!


OR

 

[JolietJames]

You will get farther shooting balls over and over again with no aiming system provided your using common sense. Because your mind is powerful and will allow you to learn right from wrong.

Simple...

I agree but my brain must cut class a little too often because the subconscious adjustments come very slowly... Or its a masochist?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JolietJames:
Aiming is that simple for everyone who can see intersecting lines.

That covers some small percentage of players. How do you think the rest do it?

I don't use systems, and I can see the intersecting lines, but I don't use them to aim. I do it the way I believe most do (maybe even you): by estimating an amount of CB/OB overlap that I choose from memory provided by practice and experience. Being able to see the intersecting lines helps me do that, but it isn't how I do it. I think it's the same for system users and even (maybe) for you.

pj
chgo

 

[PGHteacher]

Patrick, theUBC, Tony and (maybe) 8pack + others with “sense” we are:

:deadhorse: :deadhorse::deadhorse: :banghead: :banghead:
The others are just going to keep saying the same thing "you need to practice" and we are going to keep saying "well that's a given but here is what you left out"
So I am
uttahere:uttahere:uttahere:

 

[JolietJames]

I don't use systems, and I can see the intersecting lines, but I don't use them to aim. I do it the way I believe most do (maybe even you): by estimating an amount of CB/OB overlap that I choose from memory provided by practice and experience. Being able to see the intersecting lines helps me do that, but it isn't how I do it. I think it's the same for system users and even (maybe) for you.

pj
chgo

I will not argue with the overlap principle due to the importance of the half ball hit. However, I don't believe you can gauge the overlap accurately while you are standing up looking down at the table. So you are saying you shuffle your feet around once you're down in your stance to get your line correct? I can't drop into my stance by imagining what the overlap will look like once I get down. I line up my body's natural cueing plane with the shot line and drop down into my stance. Only then can I see overlap. By that time I'm already setup on the shot. From experience I suppose you can drop down pretty close to straight but it seems like it would be harder to judge than setting up on the obvious line. Maybe I do the overlap thing too but completely subconsciously. Now my brain hurts. I still, (and will always) believe there is no aiming system worth learning that the basic premise of the thing can't be understood in less than 30 seconds. It will undoubtedly take longer to put it into practice.

 

[sfleinen]

Don't let that "backseat driver" (conscious mind) get in the way!

I agree but my brain must cut class a little too often because the subconscious adjustments come very slowly... Or its a masochist?

Or you may have "trust" issues with your subconscious mind, or "control" issues from your conscious mind. That is to say, either:

A. You "don't trust" your subconscious mind to "play back" and properly execute that shot in front of you;

B. You have a perception issue that the conscious mind "must always be in control." (That is, you may be of the the thought that, "aiming is a 'thinking' activity, and I must keep focus on my 'aim' to be sure it's true." Do that, and you'll most definitely talk yourself out of making that shot -- something that you're probably relying on the "system" to be a wiring harness to fix.)

Or maybe even a little of both. Not all, but many systems users probably suffer some aspects of the above two items.

Pool is very much an "analyze first, then shut the mind off and execute" type of activity. The subconscious mind is that part of the mind "purpose-built" for execution -- for replay of repeatable activities, like aiming, and the act of delivering a cue. The conscious mind has NO BUSINESS in any of these repeatable activities. In fact, the conscious mind is like that backseat driver that won't shut up, and insists on giving driving directions every step of the way. In many instances, the conscious mind will talk you out of making a shot, when the subconscious mind is perfectly adapted -- and has the replay data -- to execute that shot cradle to grave.

That's why in another thread in this aiming subforum, I described a method I use for building up that replay data in the subconscious mind, by practicing and memorizing a set list of easily-recognizable ball overlap values (i.e. 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 7/8, and "thin cuts"). Once armed with this replay data committed into your subconscious, you'll be able to use these as references without even thinking about it, and letting your subconscious make the minor adjustments from there -- something it's very well adapted to do.

If you're interested in reading more about this topic of not letting that backseat driver get in the way:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=216564

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

 

[duckie]

Of course those that don't put in the table time are gonna say table time is not important. How else can they justify their lack of practice or lack of improvement? Simple, it's all the system.

If they miss, it was the system that was the problem, not them. Not the lack of table time, but the system let them.

It grates on them that a person improvement is really based on table time and nothing more. That if someone becomes a killer player it is all because of someone or something else that made that happen and not the person hard work, determination and heart.

Until you have put in 1850 hours in a year, you do not understand the difference of using a system and not. Those that still are using a system have a long way to go. Yeah, I brought that up again and until you have put in that level of table time, you don't fully understand the need for table time. You will always fall back on "you need a system" when the overall goal is to use no system. This can only be done my long hours at the table. It is a commitment that few on here are willing to do, hence the you need to use a system or need a instructor belief.

You do not become a 100 ball runner in straight pool without table time and lots of it.

My improvement is because of me and not someone or something else. Me, being at the table trying this and that, me at the table playing way better players and getting to be way better than them over time. My desire, my creativity, my guts on some shots, its comes from within me and not from outside me.

A system is a crutch, a excuse, something to blame or give credit to instead of being true to yourself.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Of course those that don't put in the table time are gonna say table time is not important. How else can they justify their lack of practice or lack of improvement? Simple, it's all the system.

If they miss, it was the system that was the problem, not them. Not the lack of table time, but the system let them.

It grates on them that a person improvement is really based on table time and nothing more. That if someone becomes a killer player it is all because of someone or something else that made that happen and not the person hard work, determination and heart.

Until you have put in 1850 hours in a year, you do not understand the difference of using a system and not. Those that still are using a system have a long way to go. Yeah, I brought that up again and until you have put in that level of table time, you don't fully understand the need for table time. You will always fall back on "you need a system" when the overall goal is to use no system. This can only be done my long hours at the table. It is a commitment that few on here are willing to do, hence the you need to use a system or need a instructor belief.

You do not become a 100 ball runner in straight pool without table time and lots of it.

My improvement is because of me and not someone or something else. Me, being at the table trying this and that, me at the table playing way better players and getting to be way better than them over time. My desire, my creativity, my guts on some shots, its comes from within me and not from outside me.

A system is a crutch, a excuse, something to blame or give credit to instead of being true to yourself.

When I pocket balls, I try to use as little feel as humanly possible and rely solely on my system. Next time you're going to a major tournament and feel like comparing your wushu with mine, let me know. If you don't think you have enough table time -- that could always be your crutch.