Can you describe an experiment that demonstrates that throw is different for the two cases?
They are similar in that they both effect the OB from a non-straight on, clancing contact.
They are dis-similiar in that one 'throw' or 'push' is from momentum the other is from the clancing contact of a spinning cue ball.
You can NOT effect the path of an OB through momentum with a 'straight on', 'no cut', 'no angle' 'non clancing contact' hit.
You can effect the path of an OB thru side spin with a 'straight on', 'no cut', 'no angle', 'clancing contact' of a side spinning cue 'hit' on an OB.
In a cutting situation they are very similar. But... you can deminish, or possibly even offset or reverse a momentum 'throw' or 'push' depending on the particulars, with a side spinning 'clancing contact' cue ball. They are two(2) seperate forces either working WITH or AGAINST each other. They are not the same.
Therefore they are two(2) (same 'type') different forces from two (2) different sources.
The effect on the OB is from a 'clancing contact' in both instances. But the clancing contact comes from two(2) different sources.
Hence, they are not the same 'thing'. That is why I distinguish them differently. The spin one is 'throw' & the momentum one is 'push'.
English is caused by 'clancing contact' of the tip on the CB. The 'lift' shot (that in my opinion is not a lift shot if the OB does not leave the table) of the other thread is a 'clancing contact' of the tip on the CB. Is all english a miscue?
If I laid the butt of the stick on the table & hit the CB near top center, while holding the stick between the butt & the tip, be a legal shot. Apparently not because it seems that no shot shooting 'up' is legal unless you do it throught the pocket.
I'm tired of vernacullar wars. Ive gotten nothing good or helpful to me from this site &
will be leaving shortly.
Good luck to everyone in your learning process. I hope it does not take everyone 40 years to learn about small caroms. It took me about 5 minutes, but I was taking high school physics & calculus at the time.
Sorry for the dig, but I'm fed up & I'm going to soon regurgitate my brief AZ experience & find more personal
'non paying' pupils to whom I can pass on my 'knowledge' so that I don't take it to the grave with me. I thought this might have been a better 'forum' but obviously it is not, at least not for me.
I'm breaking down my cue.